Day After Thoughts

[casmith07]

4th and 15, 5th round bum QB on a team that couldn't move the football, and they march down for a FG.

How that blame can be assigned to the offense is beyond comprehension.

 

[theogt]

4th and 15, 5th round bum QB on a team that couldn't move the football, and they march down for a FG.

How that blame can be assigned to the offense is beyond comprehension.

Strawman argument.

Nobody is blaming the offense for that. We're simply blaming the offense for giving up more points than the defense.

 

[casmith07]

Strawman argument.

Nobody is blaming the offense for that. We're simply blaming the offense for giving up more points than the defense.

Blame for the loss...come on I'm not so shallow as to say it was the offense's fault the Cardinals were able to attempt a game-winning field goal.

That sort of level of incompetency is reserved for the banned folks of this forum, like Bob and SLATE.

 

[diehard2294]

4th and 15, 5th round bum QB on a team that couldn't move the football, and they march down for a FG.

How that blame can be assigned to the offense is beyond comprehension.

not really hard actually..the point was made that the defense lost the game, and the point made back was they gave up 13 points as a unit and played well up until the last drive. I guess we should just erase the memory of what happened early in the game. I understand your stance but if the they dont get the 2 picks for TD or buehler makes the PAT we wouldn't be talking about this.

 

[theogt]

Blame for the loss...come on I'm not so shallow as to say it was the offense's fault the Cardinals were able to attempt a game-winning field goal.

That sort of level of incompetency is reserved for the banned folks of this forum, like Bob and SLATE.

Which side of the ball gave up more points? Offense or defense?

 

[BAT]

Strawman argument.

Nobody is blaming the offense for that. We're simply blaming the offense for giving up more points than the defense.

The real point is the offense gave the defense the lead, it was the defense which could not hold it. That is the bottom line.

Even in peewee leagues, if the O sucks thru out the game but manages the lead in the final seconds then it is up to the D to hold that lead. The entire team was to blame for the loss as a whole - offense (2 picksixes), ST (missed PAT) AND the defense (allowing a scrub QB to march down the field, convert a 4th & 15, kick winning FG, in waning seconds of game).

But at the END of the game, holding a lead, the D crumbled.

 

[casmith07]

not really hard actually..the point was made that the defense lost the game, and the point made back was they gave up 13 points as a unit and played well up until the last drive. I guess we should just erase the memory of what happened early in the game. I understand your stance but if the they dont get the 2 picks for TD or buehler makes the PAT we wouldn't be talking about this.

Again, making the gross and unwise assumption that without the two Pick-Six plays or the PAT being made that things go exactly the same.

Bottom line is, regardless of what happens throughout the game, whether Kitna throws 2 pick sixes or 2 TDs in the first quarter, when you're up at the end of the game against the Arizona Freaking Cardinals with a 5th round rookie QB with 1:41 to go and 1 timeout, and your best player sacks him to set up 4th and 15, you do not give up the goat.

The defense blew it, and it's partially Paul Pasqualoni's fault. You all can have at it in this thread now, I'm done.

 

[theogt]

The real point is the offense gave the defense the lead, it was the defense which could not hold it. That is the bottom line.

Even in peewee leagues, if the O sucks thru out the game but manages the lead in the final seconds then it is up to the D to hold that lead. The entire team was to blame for the loss as a whole - offense (2 picksixes), ST (missed PAT) AND the defense (allowing a scrub QB to march down the field, convert a 4th & 15, kick winning FG, in waning seconds of game).

But at the END of the game, holding a lead, the D crumbled.

Yeah, we've been over this irrational thought process over and over in this thread. Who held the Cardinals to fewer points -- the defense or the offense?

The offense dug a huge hole in the first half. The defense held them to 6 points in the second half. The only reason the team was even in the game was because of the defense. The defense had more to do with having a lead at the end of the game than the offense.

 

[BAT]

Yeah, we've been over this irrational thought process over and over in this thread. Who held the Cardinals to fewer points -- the defense or the offense?

The offense dug a huge hole in the first half. The defense held them to 6 points in the second half. The only reason the team was even in the game was because of the defense. The defense had more to do with having a lead at the end of the game than the offense.

I don't recall the D scoring any points. Do you? And the D's JOB was to hold the lead at the end of the game.

They didn't.

 

[theogt]

I don't recall the D scoring any points. Do you? And the D's JOB was to hold the lead at the end of the game.

They didn't.

Well, okay, I guess I'll be kind and give you the answer....

The OFFENSE gave up more points than the defense.

 

[Alexander]

Did we, or did we not have the lead on the Cards LAST possession of the game? Did the defense FAIL to hold the other team on that drive?

On a fourth down. After a sack that should have sealed the game. There are no excuses for the defense.

Buehler and the defense share dual credit in the loss. Apologizing for horrible defense is how losers are born. A winning defense shuts down a laughably bad Cardinals offense. All night long, they are dropping catchable passes and doing everything they could to hand the game over to the Cowboys.

There were very few drives where a miscue by the Cardinals did not end it. It was not like we were imposing our will on that offense. They were sloppy and we were the beneficiaries.

Hell they even had them down to a 4th and 15, and THEN let them convert on a pass play to a guy WIDE OPEN 25 yds downfield, with EIGHT guys in coverage. It wasnt like one guy fell down in man coverage and left the WR all alone. It wasnt like the QB scrambled around for 10 seconds and then threw a miracle heave that bounced off two or three players. It wasnt like the WR made a leaping or diving one handed grab. THE GUY WAS WIDE OPEN.

THATS BAD DEFENSE, and thats why we lost the game.

The one player that absolutely positively should have been covered was the one who made the play. In. Excuse. Able.

 

[theogt]

Apparently apologizing for a 14 point deficit in a matter of minutes is how winners are born!

Yay for winners!

 

[Alexander]

Yeah, we've been over this irrational thought process over and over in this thread. Who held the Cardinals to fewer points -- the defense or the offense?

There is nothing more irrational than suggesting that the defense is not directly culpable for the loss, specifically, the way we lost this football game. You cannot ask for more than a fourth down and long against a bad offense. And yet the defense found a way to give that to them when it mattered most.

The offense dug a huge hole in the first half. The defense held them to 6 points in the second half. The only reason the team was even in the game was because of the defense. The defense had more to do with having a lead at the end of the game than the offense.

No, the Cardinals offense being inept had just as much to do with Dallas having a lead at the end of the game.

If you could, please describe these will-imposing plays our vaunted defense was able to come up with? I can count more misfired passes and dropped receptions from their offense than I can great plays from our defense. I failed to see our defense counter any of their big plays on defense with any of their own--against a rookie QB.

As for the offense, tipped INTs happen all the time. It is unfortunate they occurred and yet it put us in a hole. But amazingly enough, the team was in position to win after the Austin TD. Yet the defense folded in the clutch. There is no other way to look at it unless you are a complete imbecile.

Games have ebbs and flows and momentum. We had it all at the end. And the defense failed to stop the Cardinals from getting into FG position, even after getting the gift of a 4th and long. End of story.

 

[theogt]

There is nothing more irrational than suggesting that the defense is not directly culpable for the loss, specifically, the way we lost this football game. You cannot ask for more than a fourth down and long against a bad offense. And yet the defense found a way to give that to them when it mattered most.


No, the Cardinals offense being inept had just as much to do with Dallas having a lead at the end of the game.

If you could, please describe these will-imposing plays our vaunted defense was able to come up with? I can count more misfired passes and dropped receptions from their offense than I can great plays from our defense. I failed to see our defense counter any of their big plays on defense with any of their own--against a rookie QB.

As for the offense, tipped INTs happen all the time. It is unfortunate they occurred and yet it put us in a hole. But amazingly enough, the team was in position to win after the Austin TD. Yet the defense folded in the clutch. There is no other way to look at it unless you are a complete imbecile.

Games have ebbs and flows and momentum. We had it all at the end. And the defense failed to stop the Cardinals from getting into FG position, even after getting the gift of a 4th and long. End of story.

14>13

Can't really argue against it, even if you try. Sorry.

 

[SultanOfSix]

14 > 3

Hell ... 14 > 13. That's right, the offense gave up MORE points than the defense. Yet the defense lost the game somehow....

They did. They couldn't stop 4th and 15.

Football is a game that often comes down to the wire.

An average defense hardly gives up 4th and 15. Let alone a good one, or a great one when the game is on the line.

 

[Alexander]

Apparently apologizing for a 14 point deficit in a matter of minutes is how winners are born!

Yay for winners!

I am not apologizing for the deficit. Find where I am doing so. In fact, the whole team was dismal and deserved to lose.

But when you get a miracle play at the end from your third string QB, you would expect your defense, particularly one completely intact and supposedly Super Bowl ready per a lot of people on this board six months ago, to stop John Skelton and the Cardinals.

The Ware sack should have ended it if the defense had anything resembling a brain or fortitude. Instead, they choked in impressive fashion.

 

[theogt]

I am not apologizing for the deficit. Find where I am doing so. In fact, the whole team was dismal and deserved to lose.

But when you get a miracle play at the end from your third string QB, you would expect your defense, particularly one completely intact and supposedly Super Bowl ready per a lot of people on this board six months ago, to stop John Skelton and the Cardinals.

The Ware sack should have ended it if the defense had anything resembling a brain or fortitude. Instead, they choked in impressive fashion.

Actually, the defense wasn't abysmal. They just couldn't overcome a few mistakes by the offense.

 

[Alexander]

They did. They couldn't stop 4th and 15.

And if they did, you would find theogt, reminding everyone that they made the stop when it counted.

 

[theogt]

They did. They couldn't stop 4th and 15.

Football is a game that often comes down to the wire.

An average defense hardly gives up 4th and 15. Let alone a good one, or a great one when the game is on the line.

Doesn't matter if they give up 3 points in the first 5 minutes or the last 5 minutes. It's 3 points no matter when it's scored. And that 3 points doesn't outweigh the 14 points given up by the offense.

 

[dbair1967]

Which side of the ball gave up more points? Offense or defense?

Its a team loss Theo, nobody is arguing that.

The point you cant comprehend (or just dont want to for the sake of arguing which you do quite a bit here) is that the offense did get the lead at the end of the game. And with one possession left and the other team having to depend on a 5th rd pick rookie scrub to move basically the length of the field, the defense melted down, again.

We had scored enough points to win the game. Until the defense crapped all over itself again in the end.