Deep Snapper & The Roster

[Verdict]

Both sides of this issue are well represented and well articulated. IMHO THIS is how this board is supposed to be. Moreover, so far, no one has called the other side's opinions meritless, or questioned anyone's family tree. Good job fellow posters.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

How many games is Parcells willing to lose due to bad snaps? One? Two? Robinson is a good special teams player, hustles down the field, good tackler. He is a former starting TE, who came into the league as a DE. He is an emergency TE in case of ingame injury, as he will be active. Barring one of the centers turning into a long snapper as well, who is going to be the replacement longsnapper? A third string LB? A different 3rd string TE?

How many games?

I am not aware of Robinson being a starter at TE. I don't believe he was a starter in St. Louis or Denver as far as I can remember. The highest pass catching total he's ever had was 11 in 2001. I guess I just don't see the value of Robinson as a position player, per say. As far as ST goes, I think he's an excellent deep snapper. I don't think he's much of a presence other then that. In the three years he's been on the field, he has made a total of 8 tackles. Not overpowering by any means.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

You are right - but not many teams have a ProBowl deep snapper, either (we do).

And on my point on TE, other than Witten and Campbell, Robinson is our only proven commodity at the TE position. With Ryan being out, couple with the inability to find an acceptable deep snapper, I just don't see how we could justify getting rid of him. Not if you want to be the best at each position you can be (especially when you have the cap room to do so).

Well CR, I agree with you, as I stated earlier, that without a suitable replacement to snap the ball, we are pretty much committed. I don't know what it takes to be a probowl deep snapper. I guess it takes a season of error free or near error free deep snaps. I guess I just don't know what the percentage is in the NFL. I mean, I'm not sure if most guys have 3 bad snaps or 5 or what.

One thing is certain, no bad snap is ever going to be acceptable. I guess I would have to see what other deep snappers are doing before I could evaluate appropriatly. Initially though, I'm going to say that if we could find a guy who was more reasonable, could play a position and could snap, we would cut Robinson and keep him. Easy to talk about but apparently, not so easy to find. That blows my mind. You would think that there would be a number of guys who maybe didn't have the talent to make a team in the NFL perfecting this kind of thing. Seems like an easy way to get a roster spot. Tyson Walter should be taking notes right now.

 

[joseephuss]

I will never understand why you don't develope your centers into long snappers. Between Johnson and Gurode- one of them should be able to do the job with a little practice!

Perhaps centers now a days are too bulky to do the job. I can't see too many centers these days be able to get into the stances I see the deep snappers take. I do think anyone can learn to deep snap, but can everyone learn to do it at a high level. Or maybe Johnson and Gurode can deep snap, but do you really want them doing it?

You have to consider the responibilities that a deep snapper has to do that maybe you don't want your starting center doing. Being a blocking dumby is one of them. The deep snapper is in a vulnerable position. Do you want a starter or top back up center put in a position where he can get injured? The deep snapper also has to run down the field and tackle people on punts. That could tire out a starting center and again give them more chances to get injured.

It is one thing for Robinison to get injured in a game. Then the Cowboys are looking for someone to come into the game and deep snap. You lose Al Johnson while deep snapping, then you lose your starting center and deep snapper. That would be a scramble to replace in game and the following week.

Hallestrae was and Robinson is one of the best in the business. Maybe Dallas will replace Robinson this year just to save a little money and have a player with a little more versatility. It just seems like there is a need in the league for a specialty deep snapper. A good one may not win you any games, but a bad one can lose you some.

 

[speedkilz88]

Jon Condo is the only one on the roster capable of replacing Robinson. So regardless of which guy is the snapper the Cowboys have to use a roster space on one of them. So I don't quite get the argument. Robinson will be the guy until they find someone better.

 

[Verdict]

Jon Condo is the only one on the roster capable of replacing Robinson. So regardless of which guy is the snapper the Cowboys have to use a roster space on one of them. So I don't quite get the argument. Robinson will be the guy until they find someone better.

I doubt that Parcells would cut a one dimensional pro bowl deep snapper for a novice deep snapper, who is also one dimensional, absent cap reasons. This is not really the point I was making initially. The issue is could you get by with a player who is a notch below Robinson that also plays another position so you can free up a roster spot to keep a talented player that would otherwise be cut.

 

[arglebargle]

I am not aware of Robinson being a starter at TE. I don't believe he was a starter in St. Louis or Denver as far as I can remember. The highest pass catching total he's ever had was 11 in 2001. I guess I just don't see the value of Robinson as a position player, per say. As far as ST goes, I think he's an excellent deep snapper. I don't think he's much of a presence other then that. In the three years he's been on the field, he has made a total of 8 tackles. Not overpowering by any means.

Robinson did start for half the year in St Louis. Given that offense, it is not surprising he didn't get a huge number of balls thrown his way.

Consider that Robinson plays on just the punting teams and FG teams. He made those 8 tackles on only punt plays. I recall the Parcells' first Cowboys TC, he remarked on Robinson making tackles from the snapper position, saying something to the effect that he wasn't used to that. How many tackles did Davis make last year on STs? 20 something? That is the team's best ST player, who plays on all the STs, is a gunner, etc.

Anyway, I think that on a team with no cash crunch, his virtue outweighs the cost. I do agree that it is going to be painful cutting down to 53, and the Cowboys are going to lose some good players. That is a serious consideration. Especially if a couple of the young players really step up or show great potiential.

If I was a young practice squad Cowboy though, I sure would be practicing my long snapping.

 

[BigDFan5]

We obviously have plenty of cap space to keep our current deep snapper (Robinson) but do we have the roster space? Parcells has reserved a roster spot for him the past couple of years, but this year might be different.

Our talent, roster-wise is deeper than it has been at any time during Parcells tenure. It also seemed that Parcells was interested, earlier in the off season, in finding a suitable replacement at deep snapper. (It is possible that he was looking for a backup deep snapper if Robinson is injured).

Robinson can play a little at tight end, but lets face it, he is not a worldbeater at tight end, depite the fact he caught a couple of TD's. He is not a one-dimensional, player, but he is not the poster child for versatility either.

It will be interesting to see if we keep Robinson, or, whether the potential replacements for Robinson, are good enough and/or versatile enough to bump Robinson off the roster.

Robinson is not going anywhere. The guys the brought in to look at were boucing balls and going over the Punters heads. It was horrible.

 

[speedkilz88]

I doubt that Parcells would cut a one dimensional pro bowl deep snapper for a novice deep snapper, who is also one dimensional, absent cap reasons. This is not really the point I was making initially. The issue is could you get by with a player who is a notch below Robinson that also plays another position so you can free up a roster spot to keep a talented player that would otherwise be cut.

There isn't anyone capable of doing that on the roster other than Robinson. There is also the problem that if that player gets hurt playing his position, there goes your deep snapper. Thats why they are hesitant to play Robinson at TE.

 

[Verdict]

There isn't anyone capable of doing that on the roster other than Robinson. There is also the problem that if that player gets hurt playing his position, there goes your deep snapper. Thats why they are hesitant to play Robinson at TE.

I understand your point, but Parcells covets a multi-dimensional player. I would expect that long snapper would be viewed in the same light, if all other things were equal. I would agree that it would be hard to let Robinson go, but when the final cut comes thisyear, it is gonna HURT. There will be players cut that we will HATE to see go.

 

[blindzebra]

What is Parcells style?

Defense, ball control and special teams. That equals field position and close games.

A bad snap on a punt or FG is very hard to overcome in that style of play.

Robinson is going nowhere until someone CLEARLY BETTER takes the job.

 

[poke]

okay we had hellestrae for a long time....now we have robinson.
do any of ya'll remember the years where every deep snap was like waiting
for a bomb to EXPLODE ?? it was so bad i kept hoping we would quit kicking field goals and just go for a 1st on every 4th down.
i sincerely hope we keep robinson just for our kickers sake. besides i kind of like it when he sneaks into the end zone and catches a TD pass.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

What is Parcells style?

Defense, ball control and special teams. That equals field position and close games.

A bad snap on a punt or FG is very hard to overcome in that style of play.

Robinson is going nowhere until someone CLEARLY BETTER takes the job.

I recall an interview with Parcells last year, I believe, where he was asked about Robinson and his salary cap hit. If I recall correctly, BP was asked if he'd ever had a deep snapper that was paid like Robinson. As I recall, Parcells answered no but he also said that didn't mean anything. Every sito is different.

Two things here. One, Parcells didn't dismiss the idea of paying Robinson. In fact, as I recall, the bigger issue was where else could he play. Based on this, I don't think it's a cap thing at all. Secondly, the fact that he never had a guy who got paid like that on any of his teams says that you can find deep snappers that aren't huge cap hits. There out there. I'm not saying it's a mistake to keep Robinson. I'm just saying that I think it's a mistake to look back several years ago and conclude that because we couldn't find a decent deep snapper in the Campo era would translate into Parcells being unable to find a guy that might be capable of replacing Robinson.

I put nothing past Parcells. He has proven to be one of the most resiliant (sp?) HCs I've ever seen. Nothing is impossible, it would seem, for this man.

 

[blindzebra]

I recall an interview with Parcells last year, I believe, where he was asked about Robinson and his salary cap hit. If I recall correctly, BP was asked if he'd ever had a deep snapper that was paid like Robinson. As I recall, Parcells answered no but he also said that didn't mean anything. Every sito is different.

Two things here. One, Parcells didn't dismiss the idea of paying Robinson. In fact, as I recall, the bigger issue was where else could he play. Based on this, I don't think it's a cap thing at all. Secondly, the fact that he never had a guy who got paid like that on any of his teams says that you can find deep snappers that aren't huge cap hits. There out there. I'm not saying it's a mistake to keep Robinson. I'm just saying that I think it's a mistake to look back several years ago and conclude that because we couldn't find a decent deep snapper in the Campo era would translate into Parcells being unable to find a guy that might be capable of replacing Robinson.

I put nothing past Parcells. He has proven to be one of the most resiliant (sp?) HCs I've ever seen. Nothing is impossible, it would seem, for this man.

I also recall in a PC when asked are there any positions you are not concerned about and he said, "LS and that's about it."

You are talking about a coach who equates points to hidden yards in field position. Struggled with possibly starting Davis at safety because it would impact special teams. A coach who wants to play ball control and field position football. Wants short fields and sure points.

This man will not risk games to save 700K, when we have 5 million in cap space.

 

[Doomsday101]

I recall an interview with Parcells last year, I believe, where he was asked about Robinson and his salary cap hit. If I recall correctly, BP was asked if he'd ever had a deep snapper that was paid like Robinson. As I recall, Parcells answered no but he also said that didn't mean anything. Every sito is different.

Two things here. One, Parcells didn't dismiss the idea of paying Robinson. In fact, as I recall, the bigger issue was where else could he play. Based on this, I don't think it's a cap thing at all. Secondly, the fact that he never had a guy who got paid like that on any of his teams says that you can find deep snappers that aren't huge cap hits. There out there. I'm not saying it's a mistake to keep Robinson. I'm just saying that I think it's a mistake to look back several years ago and conclude that because we couldn't find a decent deep snapper in the Campo era would translate into Parcells being unable to find a guy that might be capable of replacing Robinson.

I put nothing past Parcells. He has proven to be one of the most resiliant (sp?) HCs I've ever seen. Nothing is impossible, it would seem, for this man.

Robinson can play the TE and has even started in this league he has a hand full of catches with the Cowboys everyone a TD reception. Granted he is not going to take Witten or Campbells job but Robinson still offers more than what Hellestrae gave us. I would add the kicker does 1 thing and the punter 1 thing yet we all understand the importance of their job and for that punt to be successful the deep snapper has to put the ball on the money to high or too low or too slow you run the risk of a block same with the FG and extra point for the kicker to have a chance the snap must be good

 

[joseephuss]

Robinson can play the TE and has even started in this league he has a hand full of catches with the Cowboys everyone a TD reception. Granted he is not going to take Witten or Campbells job but Robinson still offers more than what Hellestrae gave us. I would add the kicker does 1 thing and the punter 1 thing yet we all understand the importance of their job and for that punt to be successful the deep snapper has to put the ball on the money to high or too low or too slow you run the risk of a block same with the FG and extra point for the kicker to have a chance the snap must be good

It seems like kickers today are much more accurate than the 60s, 70s and 80s. Part of it is kicking off better grass fields, fake turf fields and domed stadiums. I also think specialized deep snappers have improved the percentages. Guys that can get the ball back to the holder accurately and quickly minimizes distractions for the kicker. A reliable deep snapper allows the kicker to maintain his rythem and concentration.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

I also recall in a PC when asked are there any positions you are not concerned about and he said, "LS and that's about it."

You are talking about a coach who equates points to hidden yards in field position. Struggled with possibly starting Davis at safety because it would impact special teams. A coach who wants to play ball control and field position football. Wants short fields and sure points.

This man will not risk games to save 700K, when we have 5 million in cap space.

All well and good fellas but that will not change the fact that if we can find a guy who can deep snap, we will cut Robinson. It's simple economics but more then that, it's talent and how you keep it on your team. We are going to get better. Talent is improving and along with that will come the unavoidable increase in cap. We are io good cap shape now but all these talented young players are going to come up on there second contracts. Roy will come up on his. Witten on his. Newman on his. JJ will eventually reach incentive or just play into it. Those days are not as far off as you may think. The day is coming and if the opportunity presents it self, we will make prudent move to manage the cap with good talent.

That's just how I see it.

 

[joseephuss]

All well and good fellas but that will not change the fact that if we can find a guy who can deep snap, we will cut Robinson. It's simple economics but more then that, it's talent and how you keep it on your team. We are going to get better. Talent is improving and along with that will come the unavoidable increase in cap. We are io good cap shape now but all these talented young players are going to come up on there second contracts. Roy will come up on his. Witten on his. Newman on his. JJ will eventually reach incentive or just play into it. Those days are not as far off as you may think. The day is coming and if the opportunity presents it self, we will make prudent move to manage the cap with good talent.

That's just how I see it.

That makes sense. Right now I say Robinson stays on the team although it wouldn't be a complete surprise if he was cut. I don't see him being on the team in 2006. He will be cut in the off season. How many years does he have left on his contract? He is in year 4 and I don't think he signed for longer than that.

 

[blindzebra]

All well and good fellas but that will not change the fact that if we can find a guy who can deep snap, we will cut Robinson. It's simple economics but more then that, it's talent and how you keep it on your team. We are going to get better. Talent is improving and along with that will come the unavoidable increase in cap. We are io good cap shape now but all these talented young players are going to come up on there second contracts. Roy will come up on his. Witten on his. Newman on his. JJ will eventually reach incentive or just play into it. Those days are not as far off as you may think. The day is coming and if the opportunity presents it self, we will make prudent move to manage the cap with good talent.

That's just how I see it.

ABQ, what big contract are we going to get done on 700K?

We are talking about one of the best deep snappers in the league, who catches you a TD pass or two a season, gets you some tackles on special teams, and costs you 1 million.

You are not talking about a former super star, well removed from his glory days, but is still getting paid like it.

There is a big difference between getting under a million worth of quality and paying 5 million for it and getting around a million worth of quality and paying a million for it.

Parcells won't risk wins just to save 700K on the cap, he'll cut Robinson when he knows we have someone better.

 

[JBell]

God I'm tired of these people wanting to get rid of Robinson..

He's not going ANYWHERE.

Have we had any problems with our punts or kicks because of snaps in the past 2 years??

I don't remember any...

Doesn't make any sense, it would be ******** to cut him...