Delay of game penalty... mass confusion... what is it?

[theebs]

They didn't lose the down, the down was replayed due to "offsetting" penalties. What should have happened was what you say above...First and goal, declining the offsides penalty, and then marking off the 5 yards on the delay of game penalty, which is a dead ball foul.

The Giants got screwed there, but they didn't play well enough down the stretch to warrant a win.

yeah that is what I meant...I think I cleared it up in my other posts that they replayed the down...like a do over in gym class!

 

[joseephuss]

They didn't lose the down, the down was replayed due to "offsetting" penalties. What should have happened was what you say above...First and goal, declining the offsides penalty, and then marking off the 5 yards on the delay of game penalty, which is a dead ball foul.

The Giants got screwed there, but they didn't play well enough down the stretch to warrant a win.

Except it would not have been first and goal. If they declined the offsides because the Giants got the first down and then marked off the dead ball foul against the Giants, it would have been 1st and 10 from the GB 21 yard line. Still good position, but it is not 1st and goal.

 

[theebs]

he caught the ball at the 16? I thought he was inside the 10.

I am remembering where he caught the ball incorrectly then. I still think it was a huge momentum swing in the game though.

 

[poke]

since this rule is being discussed here, i want to throw in my two cents.
they call the penalty " delay of game " right ?
after nearly every play a different ball comes in from the sideline so whatever
happens to the ball from the previous play really has no bearing on the speed
of the game. i understand the penalty and dont really like it, but at least call
it what it really is, which would be more of "unsportsmanlike" than "delay".
course i could have a warped sense of this but wanted to see what everybody else thought.

 

[AbeBeta]

I didn't see the Giants game, but I saw the penalty that Owens got, and the one that the Pats didn't get.

It was ridiculous to give Owens a penalty, but if he gets one, Welker should have too.

But of course it was the Patriots, so they get a different set of rules. (aka "The Tuck Rule")

Same for the Squeelers.

I think it is dumb -- however, TO makes himself a target. The refs will watch him and will not let him get away with stuff. When you've got a few famous celebrations under your belt, you are going to get nailed for stuff like that.

 

[theebs]

thieves stealing my complaints!!!!

NEW 'NO SPIKING' RULE NEEDS WORK by Michael David Smith

One of the NFL's new rules this season is a five-yard delay of game penalty on any player who spikes the ball on any non-scoring play. Yesterday Giants tight end Jeremy Shockey and Cowboys wide receiver Terrell Owens were both flagged for violating the rule.

The rule itself doesn't seem like a big deal, but it's clear from the way the rule was enforced (and not enforced) yesterday that the league didn't do a good enough job of thinking through the ramifications of the rules change.

Shockey committed his spike (actually, it was more like using one hand to bat the ball out of his other hand, but whatever) after a 14-yard catch on third-and-4. Packers defensive end Aaron Kampman had jumped offside on the play, and the officials ruled that the penalties offset, meaning they would re-play third-and-4.

Although NFL spokesman Greg Aiello tells me via e-mail that it was enforced properly, it seems like a strange way to enforce it. Shockey's penalty happened after the play was over, so the Giants should have been allowed to decline the offside, take the result of the play, and then have Shockey's penalty enforced prior to the next play, not as part of the previous play.

That's how it worked with the Owens spike, which he committed after a 28-yard catch on third-and-15. Owens' catch counted, but the Cowboys were moved back five yards from the spot where Owens was tackled.

Essentially, the way this rule is enforced means the Dolphins would have been much better off if they had committed a penalty on the play where Owens got his 28-yard catch.

Meanwhile, Patriots receiver Wes Welker spiked the ball after a catch against the Chargers last night, in plain view of at least one official, and there was no penalty. Aiello says, "it's a judgment call and the crew did not believe it was blatant enough to be penalized."

If the rule can't be enforced uniformly and in a way that everyone can understand, the league shouldn't have added it.

 

[peplaw06]

PFT should be paying the Zone royalties for stealing our ideas.

 

[JDSmith]

They lost the down also?

In the Giants game what happened is that the Packers' D jumped offsides. The Giants had a free play and Eli hit Shockey for the first down. Shockey knelt and punched the ball out of his own hand after the play. The refs threw the delay of game flag and then said that the two penalties offset - do over. So they want back to third and 4 and this time Eli hit Shockey and Shockey dropped it, so they failed to convert. I thought that since it was a dead ball foul it shouldn't have offset, and the Giants should have had the 18 yards for the completion, minus 5 yards for the penalty. That's what Aikman was arguing as well.

 

[CowboyJeff]

I am not trying to say their is favoritsm to any team. Please dont misunderstand that.

I am saying that the officials seem to be confused because in three games I watched yesterday. Same penalty should have been called with the same outcome in all three games I watched. THe three players did the same thing. Shockey's really was the least demonstrative. However all three games and official teams called and interpreted the rule differently.

I am confused as to why and I think it is important because I really think it changed the giants game, they went from 1st and goal in tie game to third and long and then didnt convert and had to kick a field goal, it was an important part of the game.....

Aikman said repeatedly on the broadcast that something was wrong with the penalty and didnt seem right....Then to see the officials not even throw the flag when it was an obvious delay of game on welker is a real head shaker.

yeah, theebs. They cant have it both ways. It seems the officials are penalizing a team thrice: First by taking away a first down, then by counting an extra down, then by marking off yardage. That seems even more harsh than the intentional grounding penalty.