Derrick Brown vs Javon KInlaw?

[cnuball21]

We need both.

I think Brown has the higher floor and is safer and Kinlaw has the higher ceiling.

 

[Proof]

i've gotten way too invested in prospects over the years, and think taco / watt broke my spirit so i've tapped out on the research i used to enjoy. you guys are really making brown sound super intriguing though

 

[Fredbeard]

We need both.

I think Brown has the higher floor and is safer and Kinlaw has the higher ceiling.

^^^^^^. This. Either brown or kinlaw would be a tremendous upgrade over what the cowboys have now.defensive tackle has been a need for years now despite the claims of a few that the cowboys were fine at the position. unfortunately , it seems there is a concerted
Effort by former marinelli apologists to discredit Derrick Brown.its likely both Brown
And Kinlaw will be gone before the cowboys
Pick

 

[Daygoboy6191]

I'd rather have Kinlaw, but if the Knees are right he will not be there at 17.

What do you think about Damon Snacks Harrison and re-signing Bennett. You've got your 1 and 3 tech. Would be a huge upgrade up the middle and I would love to re-sign Quinn as well.

 

[cnuball21]

I'd rather have Kinlaw, but if the Knees are right he will not be there at 17.

What do you think about Damon Snacks Harrison and re-signing Bennett. You've got your 1 and 3 tech. Would be a huge upgrade up the middle and I would love to re-sign Quinn as well.

I think both are getting older and likely rotational players at this point.

Would like to bring Bennett back though.

 

[Creeper]

Brown will not be there at 17 and most likely neither will Kinlaw so its moot. But if this is a mental exercise, I could not make up my mind. I would probably go with Brown. But it would not be an easy decision for me.

 

[Future]

I'd rather have Kinlaw, but if the Knees are right he will not be there at 17.

What do you think about Damon Snacks Harrison and re-signing Bennett. You've got your 1 and 3 tech. Would be a huge upgrade up the middle and I would love to re-sign Quinn as well.

Neither of these players is an upgrade to Woods/Collins.

 

[kskboys]

Neither of these players is an upgrade to Woods/Collins.

You need a different info source. Either is a huge upgrade.

 

[kskboys]

We need both.

I think Brown has the higher floor and is safer and Kinlaw has the higher ceiling.

Well done and spot on. There's very little bust potential w/ Brown. Kinlaw is scary. He may lack instincts. At present, he's highly susceptible to draws and screens and lacks strength as he loses the leverage battle way too often. Not convinced he can step in and play. Brown can.

 

[Jake0]

Neither of these players is an upgrade to Woods/Collins.

These 2 players have this major problem of being constantly injured. They're good for about 8 games a year tops moving forward.

 

[Future]

These 2 players have this major problem of being constantly injured. They're good for about 8 games a year tops moving forward.

What? This is completely false. They've missed a combined 9 games in the past two seasons.

 

[Jake0]

What? This is completely false. They've missed a combined 9 games in the past two seasons.

I had one of em confused with Terrell McClain, Collins has been pretty reliable other than constant offseason surgeries. Woods is still pretty iffy still I'd say.

 

[NorthwestDallas40]

I want to know Kinlaw's medicals, but if they're good, I picked him

I watched Derrick Brown last night as a palate cleanser from a bunch of day 2 prospects (Davidson, Blacklock, Lawrence), to see if all the hate on him is really warranted. To a degree, I think it is. He's fast off the line, but that lack of lateral agility is totally present and you never see him getting skinny through gaps.

What gets him by is his just flat-out unreal strength, where he literally takes 300lb SEC athletes and throws them around like ragdolls. Most of his pressures come on bull rushes, or times when the guard doesn't cover the gap fast enough and he can just out-run them.

And his run defense is just on another universe from anyone in this class. You're going to have to double team him cause he will destroy your run play if left single-blocked, but he caves in double-teams just as easily. He gets off blocks and makes plays really, really well too, even on double teams, even down the LOS. Scariest run defender I've seen in a while.

On the whole, I would say he's a more impactful pass rusher than Gallimore, Blacklock, Davidson, and Rashard Lawrence, just because he wins so consistently as a pocket pusher. Madibuike is the only tier 2 DT on his level as a pass rusher, but Kinlaw's a step above him. As a run defender, he is probably 5x above Kinlaw and Blacklock and 50x above anyone else.

On the whole, I would say Brown is Vita Vea or Dexter Lawrence, and Kinlaw is potentially Chris Jones or David Irving. Kinlaw's the more valuable prospect, but if you think Brown isn't worth #17 then you had better have the other DTs in this class ranked real low, because he is clearly superior to every tier 2 guy.

Great analysis. I agree 100%. I would be happy enough with Brown if Kinlaw is gone. We have not controlled the line of scrimmage or pushed the pocket from the inside in forever.

 

[Future]

Made a couple of gifs last night because I knew they'd inevitably come in useful for a Derrick Brown hate thread; might as well drop them here.

Again, tell me where you see Blacklock, Gallimore, Davidson, or Madibuike having reps like this. He's playing on a different level from them.

Spoiler

A gif from vs Oregon didn't save properly, but here's the hyperlink.

http://i.imgur.com/exN2V4v.gifv

This is the same rep 3 times - bull rush on a G/C he's bigger and stronger than. Not always going to have that advantage in the pros.

 

[beware_d-ware]

This is the same rep 3 times - bull rush on a G/C he's bigger and stronger than. Not always going to have that advantage in the pros.

That kind of power did for Lawrence and Vea.

It's a bit like Henry Ruggs. College WRs with 4.4 speed alone aren't going to just consistently win on that trait in the pros, which is why a lot of people are hard on guys like Duvernay. But WRs who have 4.27 speed, the kind of speed you only see coming into the league once every year or two, can usually win with that dominant trait immediately if they are even have average skill to harness it.

Strength is much more nebulous to measure; as I've written before, there's not a Combine drill that even comes close to doing it. But from what I'm seeing on film, Brown is a once-a-year, once every two years kind of athlete in terms of raw power. I'll tell you right now, there is no way Connor Williams could hold up to him on a bull rush, and a Connor Williams- 2019 Frederick double team couldn't move him on a dive play.

 

[Daygoboy6191]

Neither of these players is an upgrade to Woods/Collins.

Both of these guys are an upgrade, and you put Bennett next to Snacks who is going to eat up blocks it would be a really good Duo upfront until you can draft there replacement. Both on a 2-year deal would be a good start to FA IMO.

 

[Sandyf]

Ask yourself what McCarthy and Nolan want. They prefer a big NT who eats up the middle and a great run stopper. So for me Derrick Brown would be the guy they would choose. He is a beast although not much of a pass rusher just yet. He does have Reggie White type talent and my bet for the best DL in the draft.

 

[DanA]

Ask yourself what McCarthy and Nolan want. They prefer a big NT who eats up the middle and a great run stopper. So for me Derrick Brown would be the guy they would choose. He is a beast although not much of a pass rusher just yet. He does have Reggie White type talent and my bet for the best DL in the draft.

Kinlaw is 325lbs with 35” arms. Is there a coaching group that doesn’t like that?

 

[kskboys]

Kinlaw is 325lbs with 35” arms. Is there a coaching group that doesn’t like that?

That is nice, but he's not particularly powerful, and does have some bust potential. Might lack instincts.

 

[Daygoboy6191]

That is nice, but he's not particularly powerful, and does have some bust potential. Might lack instincts.

I don't think it's about him being powerful, because I believe he has plenty of power, but I do believe he plays too high at times and it allows shorter players to get inside and gain leverage. If he is coachable, and coached right that can be corrected and he can be an absolute punishing DT especially if you play him at the 3 with a big 1 tech to push the center and allow him to work one on one to get upfield. I discussed this in another thread, but you pair Kinlaw with a Linval Joseph or a Damon Harrisson type 1 tech Kinlaw could be Jason Hatcher during his contract year with 10+ sacks from an interior play which would be amazing.

My ideal situation.
Re-sign Quinn, Re-sign Michael Bennett, and sign Snacks or Joseph, and Draft Kinlaw.
Base
RE: Bennett
1tech: Snacks or Joseph
3tech: Kinlaw
LE: D-Law
Passing/ Nascar
RE: Quinn
1tech: Michael Bennett
3tech: Kinlaw
LE: D-Law

That turns the d-line into a top 10 d-line group in the NFL against pass and run.