Devil’s Advocate - Case for keeping offense continuity

[Parcells4Life]

So we know the offense got better with Cooper - finishing 8th in yards since his arrival and averaging 22.0 ppg.

Over the last 4 weeks all the red zone issues seemed to get fixed also. If the red zone issues are gone for good and the team even bumps up their average to just 24.0 ppg next year that would be good for 14th in the league.

No it is NOT the elite. But, with this defense is it good enough?

You can make the case the offense over a full season could jump up to 26 or 27 ppg which would be good for top 10.

Lincoln Riley isn’t showing up here next year. Any other playcaller it will be his first time doing so which mean he and the offense are likely to start slow. I like Broaddus’ suggestion, unless you can show me an OC that will definitely be an upgrade (and stop with the childish “a paper bag is better than Linehan”), I’m ok staying for 1 more year and if the team doesn’t get to the NFC Championship, clean house.

Add to this that with the amount of wide open guys there were in pass game, the increase in output relies on Dak’s Deep ball accuracy as much as any scheme change.

Gallup had at least 3 wide open TDs that were missed. That alone is 21 points. I’m sure we can all name 2-3 more easy TDs. The TD vs the Colts to Olawale that should have been easy.

 

[silvrNblue]

NO, just NO... 9 seasons of mediocre play calling is ENOUGH already. DO it now, while our team is still young, I'll take the hit for a season while they get their collective heads together...vanillahan is NEVER taking this team any where near what we want.

 

[Willfreedom909]

Nah we need an elite offense. Dak has the ability to be a 40 Touchdown 8 interception every year guy

 

[Eanwen]

Barring injuries and assuming improvements with Conor and Travis I would assume that next year's offense would be better than this year's offense, however I want to see if Dak can improve in the passing game (e.g. anticipation, better footwork) with better coaching and play calling. I don't think he should run 20+ times a game but I think Dak running more would help this offense.

 

[TheDude]

The offense is just not tailored to the talent. It is a system that expects the team to execute. The problem is that there are certain things the team cannot execute....wr screen Being an example.

The scheme is TOP and has an inordinate amount of curls and comebacks.... always has. The slants almost always work , but are rarely used as the staple. You have an rpo qb, but why away probably from fear of injury. It is just too inconsistent...even with cooper, he was eliminated in the NO, TB and Indy games. Just no excuse to be that easy to be thrown off your strengtg

 

[skinsscalper]

So we know the offense got better with Cooper - finishing 8th in yards since his arrival and averaging 22.0 ppg.

Over the last 4 weeks all the red zone issues seemed to get fixed also. If the red zone issues are gone for good and the team even bumps up their average to just 24.0 ppg next year that would be good for 14th in the league.

No it is NOT the elite. But, with this defense is it good enough?

You can make the case the offense over a full season could jump up to 26 or 27 ppg which would be good for top 10.

Lincoln Riley isn’t showing up here next year. Any other playcaller it will be his first time doing so which mean he and the offense are likely to start slow. I like Broaddus’ suggestion, unless you can show me an OC that will definitely be an upgrade (and stop with the childish “a paper bag is better than Linehan”), I’m ok staying for 1 more year and if the team doesn’t get to the NFC Championship, clean house.

The whole "defense wins championships" line of thinking is antiquated and false. Unless your defense is scoring all the points it's an asinine mindset. Your defense will keep you in games (if it's good enough) but it won't win you anything. There are rare cases (85 Bears, 2000 Ravens) where they are the strength of a team and they'll lead the way but even those teams needed the offense to produce something to win. Hell, look at the Super Bowl last year. That was two of the best regular and post-season defenses in the league and both were getting LIT UP when it mattered most.


The NFL has legislated itself to assure offensive dominance. They've adjusted the rules as such and offensive records are being smashed every week as a result. The problem with this team? They aren't even sniffing the numbers of the final four teams of this season (or the last, or any year in recent memory). This coaching staff is either too stupid of too stubborn to evolve their offense to take the advantages that the league has gift wrapped for them. They're basically saying "The water is great here, jump on in (to 2018". Garrett and company are saying "Nah, we're good (back here in 1992)".

 

[OmerV]

So we know the offense got better with Cooper - finishing 8th in yards since his arrival and averaging 22.0 ppg.

Over the last 4 weeks all the red zone issues seemed to get fixed also. If the red zone issues are gone for good and the team even bumps up their average to just 24.0 ppg next year that would be good for 14th in the league.

No it is NOT the elite. But, with this defense is it good enough?

You can make the case the offense over a full season could jump up to 26 or 27 ppg which would be good for top 10.

Lincoln Riley isn’t showing up here next year. Any other playcaller it will be his first time doing so which mean he and the offense are likely to start slow. I like Broaddus’ suggestion, unless you can show me an OC that will definitely be an upgrade (and stop with the childish “a paper bag is better than Linehan”), I’m ok staying for 1 more year and if the team doesn’t get to the NFC Championship, clean house.

Add to this that with the amount of wide open guys there were in pass game, the increase in output relies on Dak’s Deep ball accuracy as much as any scheme change.

Gallup had at least 3 wide open TDs that were missed. That alone is 21 points. I’m sure we can all name 2-3 more easy TDs. The TD vs the Colts to Olawale that should have been easy.

A few ponts ....

First, just as going with a new OC would require some speculation, the possibility of improvement if we keep Linehan is also speculation. Besides, a team can't refuse to ever make a change at OC because it requires some speculation as to whether he will be an upgrade. Staying indefinitely with what isn't working can't be the only option.

Second, the settling for "is it good enough with this defense" seems to be an excuse not to take steps to improve the offense so that both units are capable without having to have the other unit carry the team most of the time. The best chance to win is to eliminate as many holes as possible on both sides of the ball.

Finally, even if Dak improves, we can't just assume that possible TD passes that were not completed this year will necessarily be completed next year. Maybe that's true or not, but that's more speculation. Besides, isn't it possible for Dak to improve, and to also upgrade at OC? The two are not mutually exclusive

 

[Parcells4Life]

A few ponts ....

First, just as going with a new OC would require some speculation, the possibility of improvement if we keep Linehan is also speculation. Besides, a team can't refuse to ever make a change at OC because it requires some speculation as to whether he will be an upgrade. Staying indefinitely with what isn't working can't be the only option.

Second, the settling for "is it good enough with this defense" seems to be an excuse not to take steps to improve the offense so that both units are capable without having to have the other unit carry the team most of the time. The best chance to win is to eliminate as many holes as possible on both sides of the ball.

Finally, even if Dak improves, we can't just assume that possible TD passes that were not completed this year will necessarily be completed next year. Maybe that's true or not, but that's more speculation. Besides, isn't it possible for Dak to improve, and to also upgrade at OC? The two are not mutually exclusive

Broaddus’ idea and one i agree with is rather than bringing in a new OC, and still firing everyone if we don’t get to where we want, why not see if you can build on this season and if it doesn’t work then fire everyone. That way you know the next OC you hire will be with you at least 3 years, so you’re not changing systems for the QB every year.

No one is saying Scott is great, but the downside of changing the OC for what may be just 1 year, is too risky at this stage in the QBs development. The better idea is getting the QB to grow, unless they can predetermine (don’t know how) that you’d promote the OC to head coach even if the offense is a disaster and you clean house after the year.

 

[conner01]

I like the idea of continuity with the oline, not so much with the play calling
If Fred is healthy and the rest can stay healthy I think we will see improvement in the offense
I think we could see more with a better OC

 

[Chrispierce]

I understand what you’re saying. I listened to those shows,and it’s a tough situation where there’s really not a lot of options right now. But I still am not in favor of keeping Linehan around just because of circumstances,and would rather give Garrett those duties,and keep looking till they do find the right guy to fit at OC.

 

[OmerV]

Broaddus’ idea and one i agree with is rather than bringing in a new OC, and still firing everyone if we don’t get to where we want, why not see if you can build on this season and if it doesn’t work then fire everyone. That way you know the next OC you hire will be with you at least 3 years, so you’re not changing systems for the QB every year.

No one is saying Scott is great, but the downside of changing the OC for what may be just 1 year, is too risky at this stage in the QBs development. The better idea is getting the QB to grow, unless they can predetermine (don’t know how) that you’d promote the OC to head coach even if the offense is a disaster and you clean house after the year.

I see your point, but I guess in my mind there could always be some justification for why now is not the perfect time to make a change, or for how there is a possibility of improvement if the OC is given just one more year, and that kind of thinking can't be allowed to handcuff a team year after year. Ultimately a team simply has to weigh all considerations and make a choice.

 

[rags747]

Nah we need an elite offense. Dak has the ability to be a 40 Touchdown 8 interception every year guy

I was thinking 50 td's just to match Mahomes, I think he has it in him.

 

[rags747]

The whole "defense wins championships" line of thinking is antiquated and false. Unless your defense is scoring all the points it's an asinine mindset. Your defense will keep you in games (if it's good enough) but it won't win you anything. There are rare cases (85 Bears, 2000 Ravens) where they are the strength of a team and they'll lead the way but even those teams needed the offense to produce something to win. Hell, look at the Super Bowl last year. That was two of the best regular and post-season defenses in the league and both were getting LIT UP when it mattered most.


The NFL has legislated itself to assure offensive dominance. They've adjusted the rules as such and offensive records are being smashed every week as a result. The problem with this team? They aren't even sniffing the numbers of the final four teams of this season (or the last, or any year in recent memory). This coaching staff is either too stupid of too stubborn to evolve their offense to take the advantages that the league has gift wrapped for them. They're basically saying "The water is great here, jump on in (to 2018". Garrett and company are saying "Nah, we're good (back here in 1992)".

As Irvin has said multiple times, SCORING DEFENSE wins Championships...regular defense not so much.

 

[noshame]

We just ended our amazing playoff run because we refuse to be creative and non repetitive.

SCOTT MUST GO

 

[Roadtrip635]

Simply banking that players will just get better or the system itself doesn't need to improve is a losing strategy. That's the same strategy that has kept us out of the playoffs in successive seasons. If you're standing pat, you're falling behind.

 

[Parcells4Life]

We just ended our amazing playoff run because we refuse to be creative and non repetitive.

SCOTT MUST GO

We ended our run because the defense gave up 273 yards on the ground and Jeff Heath lost the ball carrier on 3rd and 7

 

[Flamma]

So we know the offense got better with Cooper - finishing 8th in yards since his arrival and averaging 22.0 ppg.

Over the last 4 weeks all the red zone issues seemed to get fixed also. If the red zone issues are gone for good and the team even bumps up their average to just 24.0 ppg next year that would be good for 14th in the league.

No it is NOT the elite. But, with this defense is it good enough?

You can make the case the offense over a full season could jump up to 26 or 27 ppg which would be good for top 10.

Lincoln Riley isn’t showing up here next year. Any other playcaller it will be his first time doing so which mean he and the offense are likely to start slow. I like Broaddus’ suggestion, unless you can show me an OC that will definitely be an upgrade (and stop with the childish “a paper bag is better than Linehan”), I’m ok staying for 1 more year and if the team doesn’t get to the NFC Championship, clean house.

Add to this that with the amount of wide open guys there were in pass game, the increase in output relies on Dak’s Deep ball accuracy as much as any scheme change.

Gallup had at least 3 wide open TDs that were missed. That alone is 21 points. I’m sure we can all name 2-3 more easy TDs. The TD vs the Colts to Olawale that should have been easy.

Assuming too much. Dallas should not repeat the same mistake they made after the 2016 season. They can't go into next season changing nothing and expecting better results. Someone else in this thread mentioned that even some of the best defenses of the past had an offense to score points. I might have to agree. We don't need an offense that scores 50 points a game, but our current offense, the one that punted 4 out of the first 5 drives in the divisional round isn't winning anything anytime soon. Something has to change there. Improving our defense from where it is now might not make that much of a difference without help from the offense.

 

[eromeopolk]

So we know the offense got better with Cooper - finishing 8th in yards since his arrival and averaging 22.0 ppg.

Over the last 4 weeks all the red zone issues seemed to get fixed also. If the red zone issues are gone for good and the team even bumps up their average to just 24.0 ppg next year that would be good for 14th in the league.

No it is NOT the elite. But, with this defense is it good enough?

You can make the case the offense over a full season could jump up to 26 or 27 ppg which would be good for top 10.

Lincoln Riley isn’t showing up here next year. Any other playcaller it will be his first time doing so which mean he and the offense are likely to start slow. I like Broaddus’ suggestion, unless you can show me an OC that will definitely be an upgrade (and stop with the childish “a paper bag is better than Linehan”), I’m ok staying for 1 more year and if the team doesn’t get to the NFC Championship, clean house.

Add to this that with the amount of wide open guys there were in pass game, the increase in output relies on Dak’s Deep ball accuracy as much as any scheme change.

Gallup had at least 3 wide open TDs that were missed. That alone is 21 points. I’m sure we can all name 2-3 more easy TDs. The TD vs the Colts to Olawale that should have been easy.

Your last NFC Championship game appearance was 1995. Again the definition of insanity is?

 

[CATCH17]

Continuity is only good if you have good coaching.


Continuity has done absolutely nothing for this franchise.

It’s one thing to keep Sean Payton through the tough times.

Keeping Garrett for 10+ years is just stupid.

 

[GenoT]

Nah we need an elite offense. Dak has the ability to be a 40 Touchdown 8 interception every year guy