Did the Cowboys not learn anything from the Claiborne trade-up?

[PSU999]

Giving up a valuable mid-3rd round pick to move up for Lawrence was silly.

This is a team that lacks depth. In a deep draft like this you can get a starter with that 3rd round pick.

Why not just stay at 47, take Kony Ealy, and still keep the 3rd rounder?

 

[BrAinPaiNt]

Because Kony Ealy is not viewed as a Right/weak side DE that they wanted and they already have a Left/Strong side DE group on the roster.

They over paid to trade up. Some will continue to argue other wise but Stephen admits it and Jerry admitted it multiple times in the third day PC.

With that said they also viewed 4 players that could help at weak/right side DE.

1. Clowney - that was never going to happen
2. Barr - He went before they could get him
3. Lawrence at a drop off from the above two.
4. Attaouchu but at a big drop off between the others including Lawrence.

They also though of taking Ryan Shazier and making the 3 tech (melton) and the LB (shazier) the focus of their pass rushing players instead of the 3 Tech and Right/weak side DE.

Shazier was taking by the steelers. The Cowboys were actually on the phone with Shaziers agent, Shazier's agent was actually writing a text out that the cowboys were going to take him...then the steelers took him one spot above the cowboys.

The next highest rated player on the board was Z.Martin.

They tried to get a good trade to move down and pick up an extra pick(s) and still get someone like Lawrence. The trade offers were not good enough.

So they decided that they were going to do what it took to trade up and get Lawrence because they had a strong feeling that Atlanta was going to take him at the top of the second.

They actually tried to trade back into the end of the first to take him but did not get a trade they liked.

They then decided to do it on the second day and got the trade. They admit to overpaying for the trade but they knew that he was not going to fall to them and they knew that he was a considerable step above the next guy they the thought could fill the role (Attaouchu).

That is why they made the trade.

Kony Ealy was NEVER going to be the Right/Weak side DE. They viewed him as a Left/Strong side DE who would also rotate in at 3 Tech DT.

Hope that answers your question.

So the trade may well be silly in your opinion, they did overpay by their own words...but taking Kony Ealy at 47 would be silly if they are looking to get someone to play in the departed D.Wares role because Ealy was not going to be that player.

 

[PSU999]

Because Kony Ealy is not viewed as a Right/weak side DE that they wanted and they already have a Left/Strong side DE group on the roster.

They over paid to trade up. Some will continue to argue other wise but Stephen admits it and Jerry admitted it multiple times in the third day PC.

With that said they also viewed 4 players that could help at weak/right side DE.

1. Clowney - that was never going to happen
2. Barr - He went before they could get him
3. Lawrence at a drop off from the above two.
4. Attaouchu but at a big drop off between the others including Lawrence.

They also though of taking Ryan Shazier and making the 3 tech (melton) and the LB (shazier) the focus of their pass rushing players instead of the 3 Tech and Right/weak side DE.

Shazier was taking by the steelers. The Cowboys were actually on the phone with Shaziers agent, Shazier's agent was actually writing a text out that the cowboys were going to take him...then the steelers took him one spot above the cowboys.

The next highest rated player on the board was Z.Martin.

They tried to get a good trade to move down and pick up an extra pick(s) and still get someone like Lawrence. The trade offers were not good enough.

So they decided that they were going to do what it took to trade up and get Lawrence because they had a strong feeling that Atlanta was going to take him at the top of the second.

They actually tried to trade back into the end of the first to take him but did not get a trade they liked.

They then decided to do it on the second day and got the trade. They admit to overpaying for the trade but they knew that he was not going to fall to them and they knew that he was a considerable step above the next guy they the thought could fill the role (Attaouchu).

That is why they made the trade.

Kony Ealy was NEVER going to be the Right/Weak side DE. They viewed him as a Left/Strong side DE who would also rotate in at 3 Tech DT.

Hope that answers your question.

So the trade may well be silly in your opinion, they did overpay by their own words...but taking Kony Ealy at 47 would be silly if they are looking to get someone to play in the departed D.Wares role because Ealy was not going to be that player.

Fair enough. So the next question becomes, if not Ealy, who would you have gotten with that 2nd round pick if you stayed pat?

And who could you have gotten with that 3rd round pick that you gave up?

 

[Zimmy Lives]

Because Kony Ealy is not viewed as a Right/weak side DE that they wanted and they already have a Left/Strong side DE group on the roster.

They over paid to trade up. Some will continue to argue other wise but Stephen admits it and Jerry admitted it multiple times in the third day PC.

With that said they also viewed 4 players that could help at weak/right side DE.

1. Clowney - that was never going to happen
2. Barr - He went before they could get him
3. Lawrence at a drop off from the above two.
4. Attaouchu but at a big drop off between the others including Lawrence.

They also though of taking Ryan Shazier and making the 3 tech (melton) and the LB (shazier) the focus of their pass rushing players instead of the 3 Tech and Right/weak side DE.

Shazier was taking by the steelers. The Cowboys were actually on the phone with Shaziers agent, Shazier's agent was actually writing a text out that the cowboys were going to take him...then the steelers took him one spot above the cowboys.

The next highest rated player on the board was Z.Martin.

They tried to get a good trade to move down and pick up an extra pick(s) and still get someone like Lawrence. The trade offers were not good enough.

So they decided that they were going to do what it took to trade up and get Lawrence because they had a strong feeling that Atlanta was going to take him at the top of the second.

They actually tried to trade back into the end of the first to take him but did not get a trade they liked.

They then decided to do it on the second day and got the trade. They admit to overpaying for the trade but they knew that he was not going to fall to them and they knew that he was a considerable step above the next guy they the thought could fill the role (Attaouchu).

That is why they made the trade.

Kony Ealy was NEVER going to be the Right/Weak side DE. They viewed him as a Left/Strong side DE who would also rotate in at 3 Tech DT.

Hope that answers your question.

So the trade may well be silly in your opinion, they did overpay by their own words...but taking Kony Ealy at 47 would be silly if they are looking to get someone to play in the departed D.Wares role because Ealy was not going to be that player.

Good analysis of the scenario, BP!

Bottom line is this kid (Lawrence) has to have a huge impact early or the trade up was a waste. No pressure.

 

[BrAinPaiNt]

Fair enough. So the next question becomes, if not Ealy, who would you have gotten with that 2nd round pick if you stayed pat?

And who could you have gotten with that 3rd round pick that you gave up?

They were not going to get Lawrence in the second if they stayed at 47.

So if they did not make that trade my guess would be the would have reached for Attaochu at 47 and possible taken Trai Turner in the third if he fell to 78 (which he would have).

Word is they were trying to trade BACK up into the third and it was for a lineman they said had fallen to the last few picks of the third...the only one of those that We KNOW they liked was Turner.

So probably would have been Attaouchu (sp?) and Trai Turner.

Which is kind of confusing with the idea of taking two OGs in the first three picks.

But that is speculation as it did not happen.

 

[TellerMorrow34]

I hate that we had to give up a 3rd but if they feel that strongly about getting their guy in the 2nd then I'm not going to complain too much. I'm going to hope they made the right move.

 

[BrAinPaiNt]

The more concerning pick you should focus your anger, angst or whatever negative word you wish to insert on is the fourth round pick Anthony Hitchens.

When they called him they told him that the ST coach really lobbied hard for them to take him.

They also said in the PC that he has flex position but they will probably keep him at one position and that he was basically Sean Lee's backup.

So you are talking about taking a fourth round guy to be a ST guy and Backup guy and this after you lost your third round pick so basically he is your third pick in the draft.

Although you could spin it to optimism to say that sooner or later he will get a chance to start because Sean Lee has yet to start a full season and each time he gets hurt they have suffered as they had to shift players around and the LB play suffered for it.

Meh...that and the Texas tech LB pick was the two ones I was disappointed in...the others I liked even though I did not care to give up a third.

 

[tm1119]

I personally don't see how they thought the gap between Lawrence and Attaochu was so big that they felt it was necessary to give up a 3rd round pick to secure Lawrence. Guess we'll see in time, but I know I will be keeping track of some of the guys that went after pick 78.

 

[BrAinPaiNt]

I personally don't see how they thought the gap between Lawrence and Attaochu was so big that they felt it was necessary to give up a 3rd round pick to secure Lawrence. Guess we'll see in time, but I know I will be keeping track of some of the guys that went after pick 78.

You do that. And I will expect monthly reports on your progress...I will call them the TM1119 Postdraft Summary Reports.

...Also I will need you to put a cover sheet on those TPS Reports....mmmmkay

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

I like Attouchu way better then I do Lawrence. Maybe it's because I saw a lot more of Lawrence then Attouchu, IDK.

 

[BrAinPaiNt]

I like Attouchu way better then I do Lawrence. Maybe it's because I saw a lot more of Lawrence then Attouchu, IDK.

I am in no way a pro scout nor do I play one on a sports message board...But I agree with the cowboys here and think Lawrence is the better player.

But the thing I think really turned them to Lawrence instead of Attaouchu is the idea that Jerry would Butcher that guy's name in PCs.

 

[ThreeandOut]

I personally don't see how they thought the gap between Lawrence and Attaochu was so big that they felt it was necessary to give up a 3rd round pick to secure Lawrence. Guess we'll see in time, but I know I will be keeping track of some of the guys that went after pick 78.

They probably feel that Lawrence can be the long term answer at RDE. With Attacho you're probably spending a high pick next year to get your long term answer.

 

[theSHOW]

The more concerning pick you should focus your anger, angst or whatever negative word you wish to insert on is the fourth round pick Anthony Hitchens.

When they called him they told him that the ST coach really lobbied hard for them to take him.

They also said in the PC that he has flex position but they will probably keep him at one position and that he was basically Sean Lee's backup.

So you are talking about taking a fourth round guy to be a ST guy and Backup guy and this after you lost your third round pick so basically he is your third pick in the draft.

Although you could spin it to optimism to say that sooner or later he will get a chance to start because Sean Lee has yet to start a full season and each time he gets hurt they have suffered as they had to shift players around and the LB play suffered for it.

Meh...that and the Texas tech LB pick was the two ones I was disappointed in...the others I liked even though I did not care to give up a third.

I'm pretty sure Sean "Glass" Lee will do something by week 5 that puts him on the sidelines for the remainder of the season. Great pick in the fourth!

 

[Idgit]

I personally don't see how they thought the gap between Lawrence and Attaochu was so big that they felt it was necessary to give up a 3rd round pick to secure Lawrence. Guess we'll see in time, but I know I will be keeping track of some of the guys that went after pick 78.

I'm surprised this isn't talked about more. It's fine if you want a guy like Lawrence, but you gave up a lot for him. We're there really only three guys in the entire draft you thought could play this position for you? I guess so, if you made the trade. But there's a really good chance a comparable or better player than Lawrence is going to come out of rounds 2 or below in this draft. If you put all your eggs in that one basket, it better be a nice basket for you.

 

[TonyRomo17]

Because Kony Ealy is not viewed as a Right/weak side DE that they wanted and they already have a Left/Strong side DE group on the roster.

They over paid to trade up. Some will continue to argue other wise but Stephen admits it and Jerry admitted it multiple times in the third day PC.

With that said they also viewed 4 players that could help at weak/right side DE.

1. Clowney - that was never going to happen
2. Barr - He went before they could get him
3. Lawrence at a drop off from the above two.
4. Attaouchu but at a big drop off between the others including Lawrence.

They also though of taking Ryan Shazier and making the 3 tech (melton) and the LB (shazier) the focus of their pass rushing players instead of the 3 Tech and Right/weak side DE.

Shazier was taking by the steelers. The Cowboys were actually on the phone with Shaziers agent, Shazier's agent was actually writing a text out that the cowboys were going to take him...then the steelers took him one spot above the cowboys.

The next highest rated player on the board was Z.Martin.

They tried to get a good trade to move down and pick up an extra pick(s) and still get someone like Lawrence. The trade offers were not good enough.

So they decided that they were going to do what it took to trade up and get Lawrence because they had a strong feeling that Atlanta was going to take him at the top of the second.

They actually tried to trade back into the end of the first to take him but did not get a trade they liked.

They then decided to do it on the second day and got the trade. They admit to overpaying for the trade but they knew that he was not going to fall to them and they knew that he was a considerable step above the next guy they the thought could fill the role (Attaouchu).

That is why they made the trade.

Kony Ealy was NEVER going to be the Right/Weak side DE. They viewed him as a Left/Strong side DE who would also rotate in at 3 Tech DT.

Hope that answers your question.

So the trade may well be silly in your opinion, they did overpay by their own words...but taking Kony Ealy at 47 would be silly if they are looking to get someone to play in the departed D.Wares role because Ealy was not going to be that player.

I honestly dont think they got any offers to trade back, otherwise they would've accepted it and draft lawrence late round 1, and get probably a 3rd which you could use to draft Trai Turner( instead of Martin at 16). So basically they would've gotten Lawrence, 2 more starters and Trai Turner.

 

[kiheikiwi]

Didn't they also state in their PC that Lawrence would start out as a situational pass rusher ? So, in other words not a starter ! Dont profess to know much about him and hope to hell he turns into a player. But for the love of God ! Stop trading up for players and eating up draft picks. ! Read Sturms piece on how many depth players we have lost from all the trade ups since 2007. 7 players for 17 top 100 picks !!! Thats why we are a 8-8 team. Practically every talking head had said we needed to come out of this draft with 3 starters and some depth. I see 1 starter - Martin. 1 situational rusher - Lawreance and some depth. That is why I am not down on the Hitchens pick at all. At least we put a player in place. Giving away picks for this club is plain stupid. I do understand there logic for why they did it, but they remained disaplined in the first round, but could not help themselves in the second. Shinny toy sindrome. Go read Sturm - its not gonna give anyone the "warm and fuzzy feeling".

 

[BrAinPaiNt]

I honestly dont think they got any offers to trade back, otherwise they would've accepted it and draft lawrence late round 1, and get probably a 3rd which you could use to draft Trai Turner( instead of Martin at 16). So basically they would've gotten Lawrence, 2 more starters and Trai Turner.

From what I gathered they did get an offer from Cleveland but it was not a good enough offer in their eyes. Notice that a few picks later Cleveland did trade back up.
They were answering the phones during this time in the war room as well.

There was activity there, no question about it.

 

[btcutter]

From what I gathered they did get an offer from Cleveland but it was not a good enough offer in their eyes. Notice that a few picks later Cleveland did trade back up.
They were answering the phones during this time in the war room as well.

There was activity there, no question about it.

Everyone knew Cowboys wanted to trade down so offers were fairly low. In addition, there were no teams that needed a QB after the Cowboys so Cleveland knew it didn't have to have the Cowboys spot at 16. It's cheaper to get back in the 20's which is exactly what they did. Smart move on part of Cleveland.

Cowboys did fine with the 1st. I am not thrilled with Lawrence and like you said pretty angry about the 4th round LB.

Honestly I rather have Mosely in the 1st, Jerigan in the 2nd and 3 round pick for a G or DE. I know this isn't popular but I will not reach (IMO) for need and give up valuable pick. This D is more than 1 WDE away from anything. We would have drafted a situational passrusher in 3rd or 4th.

 

[BrAinPaiNt]

Everyone knew Cowboys wanted to trade down so offers were fairly low. In addition, there were no teams that needed a QB after the Cowboys so Cleveland knew it didn't have to have the Cowboys spot at 16. It's cheaper to get back in the 20's which is exactly what they did. Smart move on part of Cleveland.

Cowboys did fine with the 1st. I am not thrilled with Lawrence and like you said pretty angry about the 4th round LB.

Honestly I rather have Mosely in the 1st, Jerigan in the 2nd and 3 round pick for a G or DE. I know this isn't popular but I will not reach (IMO) for need and give up valuable pick. This D is more than 1 WDE away from anything. We would have drafted a situational passrusher in 3rd or 4th.

Yes this D is more than 1 WDE away...it is also at least a draft away.

We are not going to cure our woes on Defense in one draft even if we kept that third round pick.

 

[speedkilz88]

On the cowboysbreak. Lindsay said she talked to Marinelli immediately after the DLaw pick.

She asked if he had to lobby a lot for that pick?

Marinelli: no they really know how much I wanted this guy, how strong I felt about him.

Would he have an immediate impact?

Marinelli: Yes, he'll have his hand in the dirt, a lot of 2nd and 3rd down packages for this guy. He's got to compete but I feel he has a leg up.