Difference in Quinn and Zimmer's Defense

[charron]

They changed coaches, added LB depth, lost CB depth and the biggest issue is not bringing in starting calibre DT's.

 

[Mikexike]

Defense is what it is, Until you get good DTs we are screwed....

The offense is just as horrible, You can't come out flat 2 weeks in a row....

 

[kskboys]

I feel Quinn defense creates more havoc, sacks, turnovers & overall quicker play than Zimmer's Defense & the players seem to enjoy it more

Hankins.

Hankins is a quality NT, prolly top 10-12ish. When he was in, it was much more difficult to run against us. This season, we do not have a Hankins.

If teams can run prolifically against you, it does not matter what sort of D you are employing. This is pure and simply a lack of talent.

Quinn's D only works against subpar teams. Good teams tear it to shreds. And we will not know how good Zimm's D will be until we get some talent in here.

 

[kskboys]

Defense is what it is, Until you get good DTs we are screwed....

The offense is just as horrible, You can't come out flat 2 weeks in a row....

We also let Gallimore walk. While not great by any means, he's better than this olio we're now trotting out.

 

[blueblood70]

Quinn's defense got blown out by the Packers, 49ers, Bills and Cardinals.

and BLEW does 2 fourth quarter leads up in Green Bay in Jacksonville that went on our record as we can't play on grass on the road now that would be Dan Quinn his defense can't even handle a 17 or 14 point lead.... Oh how soon we forget how bad his defense really was oh and let's mention the fact that Prescott had to nearly score on every drive in the Seattle win last year there was no defense in that game either... Let's just say both defenses suck equally and hopefully Zimmer has time to fix it and change our minds...

 

[thunderpimp91]

You mean like he did against GB?

If you watched yesterday's game closely, then you would have noticed the Cowboys DEs, including Micah and DLaw, falling for the inside runs every time Baltimore gave them some misdirection. Every time, and it was very frequent, including the game sealing first down run by Lamar Jackson. The was no outside contain and the Ravens were running around the ends 10 yards at a time. We blame the DTs, and they are not very good, but the outside guys were just awful. DLaw has never learned not to overreact to those fakes. Parsons too. They were all getting sucked inside allowing Baltimore to get outside. I don't know how they fix this or if it can be fixed, but every team on their schedule is going to show they misdirection and they have to learn not to give up contain or everyone is going to rush for 275 yards against them.

A lot of those DEs crashing inside I would imagine is what they are supposed to be doing. NO did it a lot last week and Baltimore did this week too of crashing their two most outside guys on the OL inside. Only the guys in the locker room know for sure but typically on a double down block you have that DE crash down like that. What I'm actually seeing as the bigger issue is the LBs getting sucked inside.

On that last run from Lamar it actually looks like Parsons in lined up on the inside shoulder of the T. Bizzare to ever have him line up there. Parsons got blown up on that play more than he fell for a fake, but honestly its just a bad decision to have a 245lbs Parsons ever be that inside unless hes playing LB. Luifua and Kendricks both over pursue the fake. Overshown actually made a nice read but anytime anyone even gets a hand on him hes blocked out of the play.

I could be looking at the tape wrong, but I get the sense we have a much larger LB issue than DE issue right now. Teams seem to be scheming our ends out of plays and forcing our DTs or LBs to step up and neither group is.

 

[Mikexike]

We also let Gallimore walk. While not great by any means, he's better than this olio we're now trotting out.

We have major problems.

 

[kskboys]

We have major problems.

And there's no answers until next offseason. And since we just blew most of our salary cap on Dak/Lamb/Diggs, it's going to have to be the draft. Which means we have to once again force picks.

 

[noshame]

Would the squad been on board if Jones would have hired Quinn in offseason & moved McCarthy to some front office position ?

Yeah, I was hoping Quinn was going to be the hire but now Washington has him, we'll see how that plays out.

 

[kskboys]

You mean like he did against GB?

If you watched yesterday's game closely, then you would have noticed the Cowboys DEs, including Micah and DLaw, falling for the inside runs every time Baltimore gave them some misdirection. Every time, and it was very frequent, including the game sealing first down run by Lamar Jackson. The was no outside contain and the Ravens were running around the ends 10 yards at a time. We blame the DTs, and they are not very good, but the outside guys were just awful. DLaw has never learned not to overreact to those fakes. Parsons too. They were all getting sucked inside allowing Baltimore to get outside. I don't know how they fix this or if it can be fixed, but every team on their schedule is going to show they misdirection and they have to learn not to give up contain or everyone is going to rush for 275 yards against them.

Yup.

However, here's the missing part. When your DLine sucks, your DE's have to crash in to even have a chance at stopping anything. So, the DE's have a choice, and no matter what they do they are leaving a gaping hole.

The DE's were awful because the DT's were horrendously pathetic.

Bad DT's affect all facts of your D. Fix that, and our DE's would be fine.

Think, man. DLaw has been known as a great run defender and edge setter his entire career. And suddenly he's not? THINK.

 

[kskboys]

Yeah, I was hoping Quinn was going to be the hire but now Washington has him, we'll see how that plays out.

W/ Allen and Payne at DT, it's a completely different scenario.

 

[erod]

I feel Quinn defense creates more havoc, sacks, turnovers & overall quicker play than Zimmer's Defense & the players seem to enjoy it more

Against bad teams, yes. But good defenses rolled over Quinn's defense like butter.

 

[Whiskey Cowboy]

I think what we're seeing is a continuation from the end of last year. The word is out that if you pound the rock, you neutralize the pass rush. The Cleveland game resembled last seasons defense in how they swarmed to the ball and caused chaos in the backfield. The Browns couldn't run the ball. The difference between that game and the following two is the Saints and Ravens established the run early and controlled the pace. THIS IS WHY YOU NEED TO BE ABLE TO STOP THE RUN AND ESTABLISH YOUR OWN GROUND GAME. Can we please, finally put any thoughts and opinions to the contrary to rest?

 

[kskboys]

Against bad teams, yes. But good defenses rolled over Quinn's defense like butter.

It will be at least a little better w/ the extreme talent he has at DT.

 

[mfiggs18]

Same defense we just haven't played any cupcakes for the defense to pump their numbers up

 

[Mac_MaloneV1]

DQ was terrible, but at least he had a modern approach.

Zim - like most of this board wanted - is trying to play defense like it is 1995.

 

[Mac_MaloneV1]

Hankins.

Hankins is a quality NT, prolly top 10-12ish. When he was in, it was much more difficult to run against us. This season, we do not have a Hankins.

False. He is a decent player but he does not solve anything that is wrong with this defense because he is not mobile horizontally. He was there for Arizona, SF, and GB last year.

Stop asking for NTs. They do not matter. I don't know how many times I have to say it, or how many defenses with these players have to get run over, before you people start believing what the modern NFL is. All teams have to do is seal these guys and then forget about them becuase they cannot move. If a DT cannot penetrate and/or disengage and move laterally to make a play, they are useless against these offenses.

The problem is Dallas asking players to 2-gap. It does not work in the NFL, for any DT or any defense that features that type of player. The idea that a DT can eat 2 a double team without being quick off the snap and mobile is mythology. You people are dreaming of players that do not exist.

 

[kskboys]

False. He is a decent player but he does not solve anything that is wrong with this defense because he is not mobile horizontally. He was there for Arizona, SF, and GB last year.

Stop asking for NTs. They do not matter. I don't know how many times I have to say it, or how many defenses with these players have to get run over, before you people start believing what the modern NFL is. All teams have to do is seal these guys and then forget about them becuase they cannot move. If a DT cannot penetrate and/or disengage and move laterally to make a play, they are useless against these offenses.

The problem is Dallas asking players to 2-gap. It does not work in the NFL, for any DT or any defense that features that type of player. The idea that a DT can eat 2 a double team without being quick off the snap and mobile is mythology. You people are dreaming of players that do not exist.

Stop saying NT's don't matter. They do.

Of course you need your NT's to penetrate and make plays. Who said they didn't? Weird.

 

[Mac_MaloneV1]

Stop saying NT's don't matter. They do.

Of course you need your NT's to penetrate and make plays. Who said they didn't? Weird.

They do not.

You are saying they don't need to, because you are saying that Hankins is a solution.

 

[stilltheguru]

Hankins.

Hankins is a quality NT, prolly top 10-12ish. When he was in, it was much more difficult to run against us. This season, we do not have a Hankins.

If teams can run prolifically against you, it does not matter what sort of D you are employing. This is pure and simply a lack of talent.

Quinn's D only works against subpar teams. Good teams tear it to shreds. And we will not know how good Zimm's D will be until we get some talent in here.