Discipline Issues in Schools

[Aikmaniac]

So, I just hung up the phone with my girlfriend, Shelley, who is extremely upset. She is a new teacher down here in Pinellas County. Obviously, being a new teacher and the lack of teaching jobs to begin with, she had little to no choice as far as where she could go.

Unfortunately, she ended up at one of the worst middle schools in the state of Florida. The school year just started last week. Every new day has been worse than the previous. The kids have no respect for the teachers there. To put it in perspective, today one of the punks she had trouble with was singing a rap song at the top of his lungs during a test. He "christmas treed" the test while staring right at Shelley with the biggest grin he could muster. Blaring obscenities left and right, he was needing the attention. Shelley threatened him with sending him home, calling his parents, calling the principal, etc. Of course, as an experienced punk, he knew these were all words and there was no real threat. You can't touch kids anymore, you can't hurt the kids feelings anymore, heck even grading papers in red ink is frowned upon.

Shelley thought it would be an advantage since the guidance counselor and mentors were sitting in during the class while this all was going on. Little did Shelley know that there was nothing anyone could do about this little waste of space. She met with the guidance counselor at the end of the school day. The GC then offered to call this kid in to have a conference. Shelley was very much obliged in order to have him suspended at the very least or expelled if nothing else. As soon as Ryan (the punk) walked in, he said to write him a referral since he didn't want to be anywhere near Shelley and then went on to say that he would punch her in the mouth if he saw her tomorrow. He said this as he was walking away. The police couldn't do anything since he didn't say it to her face or have a weapon on him when the threat was made. Give...me...a...break.

The reason for this thread is to a) shed some light on what's happening in schools today (at least in Florida) and b) ask those members who are teachers what her options could be. Shelley isn't a quitter by any means but she has no idea what to do.

Any thoughts?

 

[Dallas]

That's sad. I will say it's purely the parents fault though. Sounds more like the school just refuses to do anything about it.

They can expel the kid. There is nothing the parents can do about it. Just document it all and bring them up and get them expelled. Pretty simple stuff. This usually doesn't usually play out because you have weak minded councelors and principles all pro-parent this and pro-parent that, that they just won't do anything about it.


My son loves me, but he fears my wrath and would never even raise his voice to his teachers. He knows exactly what's waiting at home for him if he ever does. Kids aren't shown consequences enough. All they hear is threats and dead air. You can't threaten. You have to immediately nip the disrespect everytime it raises its ugly head.

The courts also have schools scared to death.

It all starts at home.

Some parents are just as bad as the kids are though.

 

[peplaw06]

I couldn't do that job. I would be thrown in jail for what I would do to that kid and/or his parents.

 

[Mash]

Its not much better up here in Canada....

We have gone far to the left now. We need to reach a middle ground. When I was a kid....IF you acted up or got in trouble....you received the strap and took a whipping when you got home from your parents. I as a kid I didnt have a problem with that sort of punishment but I understand that some see it as abuse. And rightfully so....some were.

But now....we cant touch our kids....there is no discipline....its frowned upon. There is no accountability anymore. I started working at a school 10 years ago and I was shocked at how much we bend over backwards for some of these kids.

Dont get me wrong....I love helping kids....and there does seem more troubled kids now then I ever remember when I was young. We have so many on medication...etc....I fully understand we need to support them as much as possible.

But we are hurting our kids in other ways.....the school system now just passes kids along. Im amazed at how many kids cant write a proper paper...read a book...etc....but they do fine on msn messenger and facebook with their slang.

We have Universities up here complaining that 1st year kids...with high grades in highschool are so poor in reading...writing...math..etc.

I feel sorry for teachers (even tho up here they make big bucks)...but their hands are tied....you want to fail several kids.....nope...Admin likes to only have a few.......kids shows up late constantly in class.......you think the student gets punished? Nope...lets give him a spare. Assignments not done...its ok ....you cant just go down the hall and make up your credit there...

A teacher wants to talk to the kids parents.......Parents think its all the teacher fault.

Im not saying this happens all the time.....there are alot of great kids...parents...teachers...etc.

But I dont know....to me it seems like there is a big lack of accountability. There is no sense of failure anymore. We have little league soccer games stopped because the score is 5 -0....the reasoning? We dont want to hurt the losing team players feelings...

My daughter has worked hard now for several yrs...always working in the summer...trying to make money for school. The stories she tells me about other kids....they show up late....they talk back to managers...fellow workers...etc......If management tries to talk to them....they quit...thinking...I will just find another job.

I dont know....maybe im just too old school....brought up in a Italian family...working construction at a early age....Their were alot of tough days...and you took alot of crap sometimes.....but I never talked back...I knew I needed to work....family needed the money....but it was more then that...you wanted to make your parents proud.....you wanted to learn...take pride in your work.

It just seems we lost some of that with the younger generations. Maybe we spoiled our kids too much...

I just done know......

 

[Wimbo]

So, I just hung up the phone with my girlfriend, Shelley, who is extremely upset. She is a new teacher down here in Pinellas County. Obviously, being a new teacher and the lack of teaching jobs to begin with, she had little to no choice as far as where she could go.

Unfortunately, she ended up at one of the worst middle schools in the state of Florida. The school year just started last week. Every new day has been worse than the previous. The kids have no respect for the teachers there. To put it in perspective, today one of the punks she had trouble with was singing a rap song at the top of his lungs during a test. He "christmas treed" the test while staring right at Shelley with the biggest grin he could muster. Blaring obscenities left and right, he was needing the attention. Shelley threatened him with sending him home, calling his parents, calling the principal, etc. Of course, as an experienced punk, he knew these were all words and there was no real threat. You can't touch kids anymore, you can't hurt the kids feelings anymore, heck even grading papers in red ink is frowned upon.

Shelley thought it would be an advantage since the guidance counselor and mentors were sitting in during the class while this all was going on. Little did Shelley know that there was nothing anyone could do about this little waste of space. She met with the guidance counselor at the end of the school day. The GC then offered to call this kid in to have a conference. Shelley was very much obliged in order to have him suspended at the very least or expelled if nothing else. As soon as Ryan (the punk) walked in, he said to write him a referral since he didn't want to be anywhere near Shelley and then went on to say that he would punch her in the mouth if he saw her tomorrow. He said this as he was walking away. The police couldn't do anything since he didn't say it to her face or have a weapon on him when the threat was made. Give...me...a...break.

The reason for this thread is to a) shed some light on what's happening in schools today (at least in Florida) and b) ask those members who are teachers what her options could be. Shelley isn't a quitter by any means but she has no idea what to do.

Any thoughts?

I'm not a teacher, but I am a parent. At the very least she should document the heck out of everything that kid does & submit it to the school administration. She should ask for a consultation with the principal of the school to get his/her guidance on how the school wants her to handle issues like this & take notes. She should also ask what options are available for a parent meeting to discuss the issues with the kid's parents (which should be led by the administrator). It is obviously a problem, but she should not be expected to be the one to solve everything by herself. That is why there are principals, vice-principals, deans, and guidance counselors. Her job is to teach... kids who prevent that from happening need to be delt with within the school/security/law enforcement system. they need to take this off her plate so she can teach the kids that are there to learn. Otherwise, everyone loses. Just my $0.02.

 

[VietCowboy]

this is why I avoid middle school like the plague, it's the worst years.

As for this kid, it sucks your friend has zero support. His home situation is probably abysmal, and you are right, these are attention seeking behaviors. When kids reach that age, it gets more difficult to change behaviors, but it can be done. She really should STOP threatening unless she is willing to follow through. Sending him OUT of the Room is likely NOT a punishment, he probably wants to leave and so he sees it as a reward. Thus, if she does that, he is likely to repeat the behavior to get that "punishment."

Kids like this probably need to be in a classroom that provide services for emotional and behavior problems. Giving him special treatment can make it worse for those around him in a regular classroom. I would have suggested providing small achievable successes at first for him (i.e. focus on his positive, no matter how small), but other students may become resentful if he is getting rewarded for doing what is expected.

 

[Biggems]

what ticks me off is a lot of parents neglect the discipline aspect of child rearing.....and also ignore the educational aspect of their childrens' youth.....but the minute a teacher tries to discipline the child, to give him/her some boundaries and structure, the parent then wants to get involved and give the teacher all kinds of nonsense.

I know with the economy the way it is, and even with the transformation of society, both parents have to work, but that is no excuse for letting kids do as they please. Both of my parents worked, but they were still on my like a hawk. They had spies all over the place and my Dad would know if I was being a screw-up.

They gave me freedom, because I was honest and trustworthy....but I had to follow the rules of the house, do chores, do my schoolwork, and I better not disrespect the teacher or any other adult.

I am of the belief that when you start you have to be very strict and very firm. If someone messes up, you make an example of them. You build a reputation for being a hardbutt....but I promise the kids will love you. You be strict but fare. You hold the children to a high standard and do not waiver. They will fight you hard, but you fight back harder. You will break them and they will be thankful for it and will have your back for a lifetime.....

 

[67CowboysFan]

I know a few teachers that just embarrass the **** out of the student and use other students to do it. It puts a stop to it pretty fast.

 

[Chocolate Lab]

How sad. PC has just run amok. When do we get back to some sanity?

 

[TwoCentPlain]

Many are gaming the teaching system in some way. We have teachers in Atlanta changing incorrect test answers to meet quotas so the school and teachers can get more money. We got punk kids who know they can't fail because no teacher in their right mind would flunk the punk and have to teach him again the following year. Just pass him and let him be someone else's problem. Every teacher who fails a student faces the wrath of a principal for failing to "teach" the student. It is the teacher's fault the brat didn't learn.

I was thinking about being a teacher in college at one time. I sat in on a teacher in a inner city middle/high school. The first day there was a bomb threat. In the classroom one student put on his walkman and turned his desk toward the window. Some of the female students even had children in daycare at the same school. Forget learning, teachers in the inner city are nothing but overpaid babysitters.

And the teacher I was watching said to me, "Get a load of who will be paying your social security!" I gave up the idea of teaching. And of receiving much from social security.

With any luck, maybe the punk will be in jail soon, where he will get the education he so righteously deserves.

 

[Dallas]

I agree. I can't believe anyone would want to be a teacher in todays society.

Far to many parents don't care enough about their own childs upbringing to correct them.

Better to ignore them and let them figure it out on their own.

super power of the year: instantly make sterile any and all deadbeat moms and dads so they can never have more children. :laugh2:

 

[Concord]

When I was in middle school if you did stuff like that you were getting a big old swat with a special hole drilled paddle so it could swing through the air faster to smack your ***.

You would think twice about doing whatever you were doing again.

And believe it or not...we all lived...graduated...went to college...got jobs...got married and lived normal lives.

Society didn't crumble.

 

[Chocolate Lab]

When I was in middle school if you did stuff like that and you were getting a big old swat with a special hole drilled paddle so it could swing through the air faster to smack your ***.

You would think twice about doing whatever you were doing again.

And believe it or not...we all lived...graduated...went to college...got jobs...got married and lived normal lives.

Society didn't crumble.

Isn't it amazing how our self esteems weren't destroyed, we didn't hate ourselves, and we generally weren't scarred for life?

 

[Concord]

Isn't it amazing how our self esteems weren't destroyed, we didn't hate ourselves, and we generally weren't scarred for life?

Exactly.

 

[Dallas]

Isn't it amazing how our self esteems weren't destroyed, we didn't hate ourselves, and we generally weren't scarred for life?

Entitlement folks. These are how the kids today are being raised.


The school owes you. Society owes you. Heck, even I owe you and Im just a stranger on a message board. :laugh2:

 

[CliffnDallas]

Schools went to hell when they stopped beating children. Most of the little animals should be put down.

 

[Bigdog]

Unfortunately, you can't expell this kid. Expulsion takes time and at least over 20 days of suspension before you start the expulsion process. She needs to report this to the administration and document any other negative behavior that this kid does. Also she can press charges because threatening a teacher is like trheatening the President of the United States. It is taken very serious since the Columbine and other school shooting incidents. The administration should back her if she wants to pursue that avenue. It will also let the police know about this kid behavior and the threats he makes because if he is threatening your girlfriend he is probably threatening other teachers as well.

 

[yimyammer]

I am of the belief that when you start you have to be very strict and very firm. If someone messes up, you make an example of them. You build a reputation for being a hardbutt....but I promise the kids will love you. You be strict but fare. You hold the children to a high standard and do not waiver. They will fight you hard, but you fight back harder. You will break them and they will be thankful for it and will have your back for a lifetime.....

So true, I was hell on wheels in Junior High & High School and if a teacher was weak, I and the other hellions pounced all over her. I fell right in line with the teachers that didn't take any crap.

It's amazing how different things are now. In gym class we had to do an exercise called 6 inches (you are lying down and have to hold your feet 6 inches off the ground for long periods of time). If you were caught letting your feet touch the ground, you had to go to the center court of the gym and everyone looked on while the coach gave you "licks" (a powerful swat on the arse with a paddles custom made from shop class. The demented soles who made these figured out if you drilled holes in them, the pain was worse). We never even thought about complaining to the principles or our families about it, it was just normal. I'm not scarred in the least from it, in fact its funny to look back on it.

My coach was so crazy, they made a movie about him:

Mr. Woodcock (http://tinyurl.com/2afh57)

 

[yimyammer]

When I was in middle school if you did stuff like that you were getting a big old swat with a special hole drilled paddle so it could swing through the air faster to smack your ***.

You would think twice about doing whatever you were doing again.

And believe it or not...we all lived...graduated...went to college...got jobs...got married and lived normal lives.

Society didn't crumble.

Ha! Did you go to my Junior High?

 

[Aikmaniac]

The things she tells me that she cannot do are just mind-blowing. When did America become like this? I'm only 33 so I remember being in school only a few short years ago. When I was in high school, the teachers didn't take any crap from the students.

As said before, if I received a paddle in school, I knew I'd receive the belt at home. Something happened in the late 90's or 2000's to weaken the strong arm of discipline.

It's not good. Children should be taught to respect authority. It isn't happening and now I have a girlfriend and potential wife who is nervous about having the career she always wanted and making a difference in young people's lives.