DMN Blog: Free Agent DE Options or Draft

[Hostile]

Should Cowboys dip toe in free agent DE market?

11:45 AM Wed, Mar 04, 2009
Tim MacMahon

There are several different scenarios that could play out as far as filling Chris Canty's size 15s at right defensive end.

Stephen Bowen, who the Cowboys valued enough to put the second-round tender on him, could win the job. Jason Hatcher, a 2007 third-round pick who has shown flashes (particularly in 2007), could win the job. They could draft a nose tackle and move Jay Ratliff over a few feet. They could draft a defensive end (Jarron Gilbert?) and let him compete with Bowen and Hatcher.

Or they could sign a starter in free agency.

There are two 3-4 defensive ends on the market who might make sense: San Diego's Igor Olshansky and Miami's Vonnie Holliday.

Olshansky would be an outstanding fit. He's 6-6, 310 pounds, 26 years old and has experience in Wade Phillips' scheme. He might be out of the Cowboys' price range, though, especially with teams like the Packers, Broncos and Chiefs switching to the 3-4. Would it be worth it to the Cowboys to sign him to a contract in the five-year, $25 million range?

Holliday, who was cut by the Dolphins in a money-saving move, wouldn't cost that much. At 33, he doesn't have nearly as much left in the tank, either. But he's a quality guy who was a captain in Miami and could be a stopgap solution for the Cowboys, much like Keith Brooking at inside linebacker.

 

[Alexander]

With each day of inactivity, I am resigned to the fact we are married to the Hatcher/Bowen rotation and we might end up going after one in the draft. We might not even have a shot at Gilbert, however.

 

[jterrell]

I think Igor at 5 for 25 makes a ton of sense provided very little of it is guaranteed.

Thats a heck of a savings from 42 mil.

 

[Hostile]

I think Igor at 5 for 25 makes a ton of sense provided very little of it is guaranteed.

Thats a heck of a savings from 42 mil.

I have to agree.

 

[Woods]

Wasn't JJ/Stephen willing to go up to about $6mm per season for Canty? I thought it was around that number. But Canty wanted closer to $8mm.

Maybe for a similar player in Igor, JJ would be willing to go up to $5-6mm per season?

 

[jterrell]

Wasn't JJ/Stephen willing to go up to about $6mm per season for Canty? I thought it was around that number. But Canty wanted closer to $8mm.

Maybe for a similar player in Igor, JJ would be willing to go up to $5-6mm per season?

I'd think so if the money was like 5 mil SB, 2 mil in salary to start with roster bonuses in years 3,4.

Igor being 26 is a good thing imho. He be just past 30 when the deal expired.

 

[cowboyjoe]

Olshansky would be an outstanding fit. He's 6-6, 310 pounds, 26 years old and has experience in Wade Phillips' scheme. He might be out of the Cowboys' price range, though, especially with teams like the Packers, Broncos and Chiefs switching to the 3-4. Would it be worth it to the Cowboys to sign him to a contract in the five-year, $25 million range?

i would go for that in a heartbeat, if he is williing to take 25, of course wade knows about him, so i say listen to what wade says about the player, if wade says no, then dont get him but if wade says yes, sign him

 

[Stash]

I think Igor at 5 for 25 makes a ton of sense provided very little of it is guaranteed.

Thats a heck of a savings from 42 mil.

If that's the going rate for Olshansky, I'd jump on it.

The Cowboys have the ability to fit that into their salary structure.

And if reports that tey were willing to pay Canty more than that are accurate, it's a no-brainer if you ask me.

I think Olshansky is every bit the player Canty is.

 

[DaBoys4Life]

I'd be ecstatic if we drafted Jarron Gilbert.

 

[lqmac1]

Should Cowboys dip toe in free agent DE market?

11:45 AM Wed, Mar 04, 2009
Tim MacMahon

There are several different scenarios that could play out as far as filling Chris Canty's size 15s at right defensive end.

Stephen Bowen, who the Cowboys valued enough to put the second-round tender on him, could win the job. Jason Hatcher, a 2007 third-round pick who has shown flashes (particularly in 2007), could win the job. They could draft a nose tackle and move Jay Ratliff over a few feet. They could draft a defensive end (Jarron Gilbert?) and let him compete with Bowen and Hatcher.

Or they could sign a starter in free agency.

There are two 3-4 defensive ends on the market who might make sense: San Diego's Igor Olshansky and Miami's Vonnie Holliday.

Olshansky would be an outstanding fit. He's 6-6, 310 pounds, 26 years old and has experience in Wade Phillips' scheme. He might be out of the Cowboys' price range, though, especially with teams like the Packers, Broncos and Chiefs switching to the 3-4. Would it be worth it to the Cowboys to sign him to a contract in the five-year, $25 million range?

Holliday, who was cut by the Dolphins in a money-saving move, wouldn't cost that much. At 33, he doesn't have nearly as much left in the tank, either. But he's a quality guy who was a captain in Miami and could be a stopgap solution for the Cowboys, much like Keith Brooking at inside linebacker.

I say we play who we drafted bowen/hatcher, draft another in the 4-6 rnd. Theres no need to go out and dump more money when we already have that position covered in house. And keep Ratliff at his pro-bowl position, why would you break something that is not broken.

 

[Chocolate Lab]

I think Igor at 5 for 25 makes a ton of sense provided very little of it is guaranteed.

Thats a heck of a savings from 42 mil.

It's a no-brainer at that price. It would be like replacing Canty for a fraction of the cost. And really, I'd rather have Igor.

I'm not getting my hopes up, but in the back of my mind I'm still hoping this happens.

And unlike Alex, the longer Igor goes without being signed, the more I think we have a chance at him. Surely he already has found that he's not going to get as much as he hoped for, so the price surely is coming down.

 

[jterrell]

It's a no-brainer at that price. It would be like replacing Canty for a fraction of the cost. And really, I'd rather have Igor.

I'm not getting my hopes up, but in the back of my mind I'm still hoping this happens.

And unlike Alex, the longer Igor goes without being signed, the more I think we have a chance at him. Surely he already has found that he's not going to get as much as he hoped for, so the price surely is coming down.

Like with our guys moving to Miami I think it is about value versus system.

Canty was worth more to 4-3 teams wanting to play him as a strong side end/quick side DT.

Igor is a 3-4 DE almost exclusively and seems to have enjoyed his best success in Wade's version of the 3-4 where you shoot gaps then hold ground or rush the passer.

And we won't lose much in the batted ball area because Igor is 6'6".

Besides a dude named Igor just needs to play defense for us.

:laugh1:

 

[Alexander]

And unlike Alex, the longer Igor goes without being signed, the more I think we have a chance at him. Surely he already has found that he's not going to get as much as he hoped for, so the price surely is coming down.

I don't think his price is coming down because he's barely had enough visits to set it. Just because he's available doesn't mean he gets cheaper by each successive day. I also don't even think he's asked for an excessive amount. From what I see, he's being selective. Fact is, both Denver and GB who have either set up visits or shown interest are in a better position to get him than we are. That's just a simple fact. The only benefit we would have is that he might want to play for a coach he knows. But in the long run, we all know what drives the process, especially when the market gets scarce.

 

[Chocolate Lab]

I don't think his price is coming down because he's barely had enough visits to set it. Just because he's available doesn't mean he gets cheaper by each successive day. I also don't even think he's asked for an excessive amount. From what I see, he's being selective. Fact is, both Denver and GB who have either set up visits or shown interest are in a better position to get him than we are. That's just a simple fact. The only benefit we would have is that he might want to play for a coach he knows. But in the long run, we all know what drives the process, especially when the market gets scarce.

I think his agent can discuss price with these guys on the phone without having to fly out and do it in person.

And yes, I still think he goes somewhere else, which is why I'm not getting my hopes up. But he could've been gone in the first or second Canty-type wave of FA. And if he hadn't been asking more than teams wanted to pay, I'm sure he would have been.

BTW, you implied that you knew what he was asking for... How much is that?

 

[jterrell]

I don't think his price is coming down because he's barely had enough visits to set it. Just because he's available doesn't mean he gets cheaper by each successive day. I also don't even think he's asked for an excessive amount. From what I see, he's being selective. Fact is, both Denver and GB who have either set up visits or shown interest are in a better position to get him than we are. That's just a simple fact. The only benefit we would have is that he might want to play for a coach he knows. But in the long run, we all know what drives the process, especially when the market gets scarce.

The teams who have set up visits are also bringing in other DL.

We haven't visited with anyone that I know of. Kitna and Brooking just showed up and signed. Igor has to pass a physical for us but it isn't like the coach needs to measure him. If the scouts like him and Wade does he merely has to fit the salary structure Stephen creates.

I'd say any time there are 30+ teams then any one team is a long shot but I don't think the visits make them a better possibility than us.

 

[KingintheNorth]

I think Bowen is best as a pass-rushing alternative to Marcus Spears. He does a good job in a limited role. Expanding his playing time exposes him IMO.

Hatcher deserves a shot. I also really like Marcus Dixon's potential. Many of us have pointed out how a 3-4 DE is kind of a sacrificial lamb that doesn't get to post bigtime stats so maybe we can get by with Hatcher.

With the 51st selection we may be able to get a player who can compete for the DE spot.. Jarron Gilbert, Tyson Jackson, Fili Moala.. or we could land a NT... Ron Brace, Dorrell Scott... and slide Ratliff over. I know everyone says a certain player won't be there but all of us draftniks know that players slip.

2008 NFL Draft
51. Commanders - Malcolm Kelly WR Oklahoma
52. Jaguars - Quentin Groves DE Auburn
53. Steelers - Limas Sweed WR Texas
54. Titans - Jason Jones DE Eastern Michigan

2007 NFL Draft
51. Giants - Steve Smith WR USC
52. Rams - Brian Leonard RB Rutgers
53. Browns - Eric Wright CB UNLV
54. Chiefs - Turk McBride DT Tennessee

I hope we extend Marcus Spears before he hits the open market. I don't want to lose another starter without getting anything in return. He hasn't set the world on fire statistically, but he's solid starter who does what's asked of him as a 3-4 end.

Last, I wish we would call Arizona about Gabe Watson. He's a restrcited free agent with a 2nd round tender but we could acquire him for less (think Cassell to the Chiefs). He's only 25 and at 6'5", 332 lbs. he could be exactly the player we need at NT.

 

[TellerMorrow34]

I have to agree.

As do I. I wouldn't mind that move at all. I'd like it in fact.

 

[Bob Sacamano]

I think Bowen is best as a pass-rushing alternative to Marcus Spears. He does a good job in a limited role. Expanding his playing time exposes him IMO.

Hatcher deserves a shot. I also really like Marcus Dixon's potential. Many of us have pointed out how a 3-4 DE is kind of a sacrificial lamb that doesn't get to post bigtime stats so maybe we can get by with Hatcher.

With the 51st selection we may be able to get a player who can compete for the DE spot.. Jarron Gilbert, Tyson Jackson, Fili Moala..

Moala would be a pretty good candidate for 3-4 DE, noone should expect much production out of him on the stat-sheet, but he is tall, strong, and does a good job of holding his ground, he would make a good starter, to be replaced by a Hatcher on passing downs, whose struggles against the run (Hatcher) have prevented him from turning into a starter, in addition to the injury(s)

 

[AbeBeta]

I think Igor at 5 for 25 makes a ton of sense provided very little of it is guaranteed.

Thats a heck of a savings from 42 mil.

Over the first 5 years it is 35.5 mill. So we are talking less savings realistically.

And I don't think Igor is taking 5 mill a year anyway.

 

[Alexander]

I think his agent can discuss price with these guys on the phone without having to fly out and do it in person.

And yes, I still think he goes somewhere else, which is why I'm not getting my hopes up. But he could've been gone in the first or second Canty-type wave of FA. And if he hadn't been asking more than teams wanted to pay, I'm sure he would have been.

BTW, you implied that you knew what he was asking for... How much is that?

I read in one of the GB fan blogs (I don't know how accurate it is) that he was asking for in excess of $5M.