News: DMN: Ex-NFL GM: Cowboys draft target Carson Wentz is similar to this Super Bowl-winning QB

[MRV52]

How many top 10 defenses has Flacco had?

How many did Terry Bradshaw, Roger Staubach, Joe Montana, Peyton Manning, Eli Manning, Tom Brady, Troy Aikman have? You argument is very weak all great Qb's have had good to great defenses. Maybe your too young remember 85 Bears? Remember who was the QB?

 

[Beast_from_East]

Flacco may not be Aaron Rogers, but saying he is some JAG is laughable.

If Flacco got released tomorrow, 2/3 of the teams in the NFL would be offerring him $50 million+

I hardly call that a JAG

 

[mattjames2010]

GP ATT COMP PCT ATT/G YDS AVG YDS/G TD TD% INT INT% LNG 20+ 40+ SCK SCKY RATE

Aaron Rogers 126 4047 2633 65.1 32.1 32,399 8.0 257.1 257 6.4 65 1.6 93 426 94 306 1917 104.1

Joe Flacco 122 4070 2479 60.9 33.4 28,322 7.0 232.1 162 4.0 102 2.5 80 356 69 257 1833 84.7


Not quite as good as Rodgers but not bad. Flacco is still a quality QB.

Hahahahaha, "not quite Rodgers" Not QUITE? Dude, there is a VAST difference between those stats you just showed. Wow.

Joe Flacco has only had 4 years where he's completed over 60% of his passes. 0 years where he's thrown for over 4,000 yards, 2 years with a rating over 90. "Not quite Rodgers", he's not even remotely close. Is he bad? No. He's good to mediocre the MAJORITY of the time. His 2012 playoff run was great, credit where it is due. But to "facepalm" when someone states it's idiotic to place him in an elite category makes me wonder what standards you have for elite QBs.

 

[mattjames2010]

Flacco may not be Aaron Rogers, but saying he is some JAG is laughable.

If Flacco got released tomorrow, 2/3 of the teams in the NFL would be offerring him $50 million+

I hardly call that a JAG

Who said he's a JAG?

When the media stated Eli Manning was a top 5 QB after 2011 and said Flacco would enter the elite category after his 2012 Super Bowl, THEY WERE OVERRATED. And teams would be rushing to sign Flacco? Well yeah, no crap. This league is devoid of even GOOD QBs, so I wouldn't blame teams for trying to bring him in. But there are tiers all players fall into, that goes for QBs as well. It's best to note the differences.

 

[Super_Kazuya]

Joe Flacco is the dictionary definition of average. Among active quarterbacks, he is 17th of 30 in passer rating. Last year he was 30th in passer rating and 32nd(!) in total QBR. But hey, if his team can overcome his average-ness and drag him kicking and screaming into the playoffs, he has shown he can magically play better. As I've said many times, if Rahim Moore was capable of batting down a pop fly to center field, Flacco would be a backup already.

 

[ufcrules1]

We can get back to the 2014 level of offense (and even better), but RB isn't the missing piece -- a healthy Romo and Dez are.

I disagree. Our team was as good as it was because you we had an outstanding OL with an outstanding RB. We demoralized teams with our run game. They would sell out to stop it, often times stacking the box and still couldn't stop it. This opened up the door for Romo and Dez. Romo at this point in his career needs an outstanding RB. Not a good one but an outstanding one to take the pressure off himself.

 

[ufcrules1]

Who said he's a JAG?

When the media stated Eli Manning was a top 5 QB after 2011 and said Flacco would enter the elite category after his 2012 Super Bowl, THEY WERE OVERRATED. And teams would be rushing to sign Flacco? Well yeah, no crap. This league is devoid of even GOOD QBs, so I wouldn't blame teams for trying to bring him in. But there are tiers all players fall into, that goes for QBs as well. It's best to note the differences.

Be careful saying Flacco is overrated. He is a super bowl MVP and in the record books with his playoff run in 2012. That dude put up Montana like numbers in that run.

http://www.sbnation.com/nfl/2013/2/4/3950478/2013-super-bowl-xlvii-joe-flacco

 

[mattjames2010]

Be careful saying Flacco is overrated. He is a super bowl MVP and in the record books with his playoff run in 2012. That dude put up Montana like numbers in that run.

http://www.sbnation.com/nfl/2013/2/4/3950478/2013-super-bowl-xlvii-joe-flacco

The Super Bowl playoff argument and Super Bowl win argument has been dismantled to death. I'm not having it again, he's overrated if someone says he's anything more than a good QB who had a great playoff run (which I have already brought up)

 

[ufcrules1]

The Super Bowl playoff argument and Super Bowl win argument has been dismantled to death. I'm not having it again, he's overrated if someone says he's anything more than a good QB who had a great playoff run (which I have already brought up)

I think he is underrated. I don't hear people saying how wonderful he is very often. That dude is pretty legit come playoff time though. Not a great regular season QB. Kind of reminds me of Eli.

 

[mattjames2010]

I think he is underrated. I don't hear people saying how wonderful he is very often. That dude is pretty legit come playoff time though. Not a great regular season QB. Kind of reminds me of Eli.

Because he's proven he's not an elite QB. Let's see what he has done since 2012?

2015Baltimore Ravens101026641364.42,7916.814121612483.113231.8352
2014Baltimore Ravens161634455462.13,9867.227121916791.039701.8250
2013Baltimore Ravens161636261459.03,9126.419224832473.1271314.9182

Have you checked his statistics in playoffs? Outside of 2012, he's been quite average to terrible. There's nothing underrated about him, he gets talked about when he's actually playing well, which is inconsistent.

 

[Super_Kazuya]

The Super Bowl playoff argument and Super Bowl win argument has been dismantled to death. I'm not having it again, he's overrated if someone says he's anything more than a good QB who had a great playoff run (which I have already brought up)

Pay no attention to the ufc troll. Romo's historic 2014 season sent him into a tailspin he still hasn't recovered from. His posting output has decreased by 90% and he is just a shell of his former troll self. This board has been a breath of fresh air without his foul stench.

 

[zack]

How many did Terry Bradshaw, Roger Staubach, Joe Montana, Peyton Manning, Eli Manning, Tom Brady, Troy Aikman have? You argument is very weak all great Qb's have had good to great defenses. Maybe your too young remember 85 Bears? Remember who was the QB?

Ok, then go look at Flacco and Eli's passer rating and get back with me. Because at the end of they day this is the closest thing that outlines QB individual play. And if you measure that, then both Eli and Flacco are average. And while your at it, tell me how many top 10 defenses Romo has had the luxury of playing with? Maybe 2 in 12 years?

And no, I'm not too young to remember the 85 Bears. And that you have made my point. Jim McMahon was average. He had a great defense to lean on. Flacco is average QB with excellent defenses. He can get away with playing average and still win. And yes, Peyton Manning was below average this year and won a SB because of his defense. When he was breaking records several years ago, he didn't have the defense support and was called a choke artist.

So back to the original quote. I don't want my next QB to be compared to a guy that's average. Guess what? He will need to be above average because we don't have a defense like the 85 Bears, Broncos, Ravens, etc.

 

[percyhoward]

I disagree. Our team was as good as it was because you we had an outstanding OL with an outstanding RB. We demoralized teams with our run game. They would sell out to stop it, often times stacking the box and still couldn't stop it.

Not true. When defenses wanted to stop our running game, they could -- and did. Watch how Murray's average kept going down as defenses started to pay more attention to our running game.

Murray's ypc, 2014 (runs of 10+ yards)
games 1-4: 5.4 (17)
games 5-8: 4.9 (13)
games 9-12: 4.6 (8)
games 13-18: 4.1 (11 in 6 games)

We already had an outstanding QB and WR, then improved to the point where we had an outstanding OL in 2014, which allowed us to run much more often and resulted in an outstanding year for our RB. On first down, defenses usually played two high safeties against us because of the passing threat, and the running game took advantage of this early in the season. Later in the season, not so much. Compare Murray's 1st-down ypc in games 1-8 with his average in games 9-16, and you'll see a drop off of almost two full yards per carry.

2014 (g 1-8): Murray 5.8 (Romo 87.3)
2014 (g 9-16): Murray 3.9 (Romo 142.1)

That's Romo's 2nd-down passer rating in parentheses. Even though Murray's 1st-down ypc went way down, the team scored more points. (The 3.9 yards per carry didn't demoralize anybody, but the 142.1 probably did real damage.) Over his career, Romo was already the best in the league on 2nd and long going into 2014. That's what allowed us to keep running all the time on 1st down, we knew Romo could bail us out if the run failed. And it failed often in the second half of that season. As good as it sounds to say we imposed our will with the running game against stacked boxes, that's not what happened.

That running game benefited from the respect defenses had to give to Romo and Dez. The commitment to the run was a great complement to those two players, because it meant that they could face defenses that, for the first time, were being forced to play honest. Defenses try to take away what the offense does best, and if that's running the ball, that's what they'll take away. Against a team that can pass, that's a risk. Against Romo and Dez, it's suicide.

That's why a healthy Romo and Dez are the key, and also why teams like the Rams are desperate for a QB -- no matter how good their RB is.

 

[Zekeats]

No it wouldn't, not if we can't pass. Try replacing Aikman-to-Irvin with the league's 30th-ranked passing game, like we had last year. Replace those 90s defenses with this defense. Emmitt still wins four rushing titles, but the team never sniffs a winning record.

You have to be able to pass and/or stop the pass.

You had the 30th ranked passing game last year because you didn't have the running game from 2014. I CAN'T believe I even have to have these conversations with the simple minded fans still. It is so evident that our 2014 success stemmed from our running game. Our defense was half as talented that year as opposed to 2015 and Romo had his BEST season that year because of our running game. We beat Seattle in Seattle because of our ground game. Why oh WHY is this still a topic that is debated?

PS as far as Emmitt goes he proved in 93 that it was all him and the running game. Nuff said.

 

[WillieBeamen]

You had the 30th ranked passing game last year because you didn't have the running game from 2014. I CAN'T believe I even have to have these conversations with the simple minded fans still. It is so evident that our 2014 success stemmed from our running game. Our defense was half as talented that year as opposed to 2015 and Romo had his BEST season that year because of our running game. We beat Seattle in Seattle because of our ground game. Why oh WHY is this still a topic that is debated?

PS as far as Emmitt goes he proved in 93 that it was all him and the running game. Nuff said.

No our 2014 success was due to Romos career year. What did Murray and that run game do when Romo missed the Arizona game?

 

[Zekeats]

No our 2014 success was due to Romos career year. What did Murray and that run game do when Romo missed the Arizona game?

Dude, buy a dog name it clue and then you'll have one. Our 2014 success was due to the run game. One game against a top 3 defense with a nobody backup QB does not mean that Romo was the reason. What did Romo do this year and in other years without that run game? 8-8 and 6-10 records. LOL, you guys crack me up. They ran the ball, stuck with running the ball and after about 5 game they basically stripped Romo and his right to change the play. The running game made Romos career year. It also made a horrible defense look 10 times better than they where.

 

[WillieBeamen]

Dude, buy a dog name it clue and then you'll have one. Our 2014 success was due to the run game. One game against a top 3 defense with a nobody backup QB does not mean that Romo was the reason. What did Romo do this year and in other years without that run game? 8-8 and 6-10 records. LOL, you guys crack me up. They ran the ball, stuck with running the ball and after about 5 game they basically stripped Romo and his right to change the play. The running game made Romos career year. It also made a horrible defense look 10 times better than they where.

You, my friend, have absolutely no clue what you're talking about. Go read @percyhoward post about the run game that year as the season progressed. There were many games in which we lose, if Romo didnt bail us out in crunch time.

HOU
SEA
NYG
DET

We lose all of those games if ROMO wasnt as cluch as he is and helped seal those games.

Quick, explain the 13-3 season and 11-5 season he had without said run game

Explain how he had the highest qb rating in NFL history in December when Murray had games averaging 2.61 and 2.64 ypc?

 

[percyhoward]

Romo had his BEST season that year because of our running game.

Romo was already a Top 5 QB for the three seasons combined going into 2014, on an offense that ranked 29th in rushing yards over that span. From 2011-13, we were great at passing but lousy at stopping the pass, which made us an average team. In 2014, when we improved the OL to the point we could commit to the run, the offense got a nice bump (4th to 2nd in scoring), but the defense played much better, took advantage of a weak schedule of turnover-prone offenses, and made a real jump (26th to 13th in pass defense).

If that's too many numbers for you, we were successful in 2014 because we were able to pass and stop the pass. The improved running game only complemented that.

You had the 30th ranked passing game last year because you didn't have the running game from 2014.

No. Murray only averaged 3.9 ypc on his 1st-down runs in the second half of the 2014 season, and that was with Romo and Dez. With Weeden/Cassel/Moore, and defenses playing the run, one of two things would have happened. You would have either seen Murray's average go down even further, or we'd have been forced to pass more, and Murray might have averaged what McFadden did. Neither one of those things turns Weeden/Cassel/Moore into the 2014 version of Romo.

 

[Zekeats]

You, my friend, have absolutely no clue what you're talking about. Go read @percyhoward post about the run game that year as the season progressed. There were many games in which we lose, if Romo didnt bail us out in crunch time.

HOU
SEA
NYG
DET

We lose all of those games if ROMO wasnt as cluch as he is and helped seal those games.

Quick, explain the 13-3 season and 11-5 season he had without said run game

Explain how he had the highest qb rating in NFL history in December when Murray had games averaging 2.61 and 2.64 ypc?

Ok so it was just coincidence that when romo threw less than 30 times we would win. And how the hell could u say romo won us the Seattle game when Murray ran it straight down there throat at the end of the game

 

[Zekeats]

Romo was already a Top 5 QB for the three seasons combined going into 2014, on an offense that ranked 29th in rushing yards over that span. From 2011-13, we were great at passing but lousy at stopping the pass, which made us an average team. In 2014, when we improved the OL to the point we could commit to the run, the offense got a nice bump (4th to 2nd in scoring), but the defense played much better, took advantage of a weak schedule of turnover-prone offenses, and made a real jump (26th to 13th in pass defense).

If that's too many numbers for you, we were successful in 2014 because we were able to pass and stop the pass. The improved running game only complemented that.


No. Murray only averaged 3.9 ypc on his 1st-down runs in the second half of the 2014 season, and that was with Romo and Dez. With Weeden/Cassel/Moore, and defenses playing the run, one of two things would have happened. You would have either seen Murray's average go down even further, or we'd have been forced to pass more, and Murray might have averaged what McFadden did. Neither one of those things turns Weeden/Cassel/Moore into the 2014 version of Romo.

I can't believe I need to even touch on this topic yet again. If your looking up numbers look up these two. Time of possession and number of defensive plays. The defense was clearly better due to the run game and only a stubborn idiot would think otherwise.