DMN: Jon Machota's projected starting offensive lineup *Photo Gallery*

[MichaelWinicki]

Well, you can mock me and be a smart aleck* about it but you were wrong about his strength in pass protection. I'm not the only member to mention or discuss it. It's also been covered and mentioned by scouts.

I've presented facts and all you've done is your usual its my opinion so there. And worse when someone discusses it with you or you see it mentioned you give us mocking and smartarse remarks. That scores you points with your homies and you collect your likes but in reality you add nothing to actual football related debate when you do that. You bring great points to the table when you drop your act and most here including me appreciate that. I suggest you do that more and the other less. JMO and 2 cts.

Lots of folks rate players by the "All or nothing" rating system. They're either terrific at everything, with no room for error or they're horrible across the board. A true realist would look at Frederick and see him as a good player, but not a perfect player. An "All or nothing" sees him as a terrific player without any faults. Bernadeau on the other hand is looked at as slop by the "All or nothing" crowd but the true realists see that he does have positives.

 

[Seven]

Overall I did not think he struggled with pass blocking, were their plays that he may have been beat? Yes welcome to the NFL where there are very good players you will face and will at times get the better of you but all in all I thought Frederick played very well run and pass and I do think he will only get better.

I agree with your first statement.

As for getting beat...........I firmly believe with Frederick, fool me once...you know the rest.

 

[jrumann59]

I definitely agree something is making him hesitate out of his stance but that's only occasionally. Unfortunately it is still a problem that can't be overlooked. He's not as good as Free is technique wise but that is a problem for Free in that unless he plays very good technique. I haven't looked at him pointing but I don't doubt you. I think the hesitation is mental. That is treated with coaching and reps and experience.

Parnell has much more upside.

He hesitates because he is still thinking not playing. He also cheats a little from time to time on hard blocks ie angles his body one way or the other. If he is to block a guy straight up and not have to reach or step far out he is fine. Also speed rushers give him more trouble than they give Free. If you could combine free andparnell you would have a very good overall tackle. Free is more of shield run blocker than a drive your guy to the endzone type.

 

[jrumann59]

Frederick as rookie had some growing pains, but he hardly ever made the same mistake twice and that is what you are looking for. That means he is studying the film of his performance along with coaches and making changes to techniques and reads so that the similar situations can be handled. I am not worried about Fred. The only guy that worries me is free because he can be out muscled.

 

[big dog cowboy]

I am not worried about Fred. The only guy that worries me is free because he can be out muscled.

Right on the money.

 

[jobberone]

He hesitates because he is still thinking not playing. He also cheats a little from time to time on hard blocks ie angles his body one way or the other. If he is to block a guy straight up and not have to reach or step far out he is fine. Also speed rushers give him more trouble than they give Free. If you could combine free andparnell you would have a very good overall tackle. Free is more of shield run blocker than a drive your guy to the endzone type.

We agree about the hesitation which I also think is mental. I see him just sit there and people run by him without him moving; that's problematic. I disagree about his feet and pass protection. If he is moving at the snap then he engages his man and that is it; once he gets his hands on someone its over. He is more athletic than Free and his feet are quick. He drops and slides well IMO. And his run blocking is superior.

He just can't sit there and let defenders get a free run at Romo. I don't have any inside knowledge of what's going on though; I only see what Broaddus and others say. I think I'll tweet him. He usually answers me.

 

[jobberone]

Frederick as rookie had some growing pains, but he hardly ever made the same mistake twice and that is what you are looking for. That means he is studying the film of his performance along with coaches and making changes to techniques and reads so that the similar situations can be handled. I am not worried about Fred. The only guy that worries me is free because he can be out muscled.

I suspect some of his problems with the rush is on his guards but some is on him mentally and problems moving well enough to stop guys who can shoot the gap quickly. I'm not too worried about him esp if we get guys who know how to play and can help him. But I'm not quite ready to just give him a free pass. He has to address his problems just like everyone else and all rookies have growing pains. My guess is he will be a solid interior player.

 

[jrumann59]

I suspect some of his problems with the rush is on his guards but some is on him mentally and problems moving well enough to stop guys who can shoot the gap quickly. I'm not too worried about him esp if we get guys who know how to play and can help him. But I'm not quite ready to just give him a free pass. He has to address his problems just like everyone else and all rookies have growing pains. My guess is he will be a solid interior player.

Tyron was the same way his 1st year at LT, but he progressed and never made the same mistakes. I see a lot of Smiths Game in Fred, now as long as Fred does not regress he will be to center what Tyron is to LT and that would be phenomenal. Free I would love to see him get pushed I hope we draft his replacement next year int he mid rounds, maybe a tweener tackle, a guy that can fill in at LT but projects to be a "good" right tackle, basically a good LT tackle in college but an awesome RT in the pros.

 

[Risen Star]

Well, you can mock me and be a smart aleck* about it but you were wrong about his strength in pass protection. I'm not the only member to mention or discuss it. It's also been covered and mentioned by scouts.

I've presented facts and all you've done is your usual its my opinion so there. And worse when someone discusses it with you or you see it mentioned you give us mocking and smartarse remarks. That scores you points with your homies and you collect your likes but in reality you add nothing to actual football related debate when you do that. You bring great points to the table when you drop your act and most here including me appreciate that. I suggest you do that more and the other less. JMO and 2 cts.

He's a better run blocker than pass blocker right now but he is far from a liability. Phil Costa was a liability, not Travis Frederick.

You presented nothing but a very flawed opinion.

 

[jobberone]

He's a better run blocker than pass blocker right now but he is far from a liability. Phil Costa was a liability, not Travis Frederick.

You presented nothing but a very flawed opinion.

I've at least presented some data which you have not. If you want to base your disagreement now on what the word liability means after we've discussed the topic then go right ahead.

The major point was he's not perfect and has some flaws of which the majority is pass rush protection; some of that is recognition and working with his Gs and more is getting out of his stance esp with the quicker guys in the gap. He also gets plain beat. All I stated was he needs to work on his pass protection and if he doesn't improve someone will eventually replace him.

You really can have the last word. I'd would appreciate it if it was something more substantial.

 

[Risen Star]

I've at least presented some data which you have not. If you want to base your disagreement now on what the word liability means after we've discussed the topic then go right ahead.

The major point was he's not perfect and has some flaws of which the majority is pass rush protection; some of that is recognition and working with his Gs and more is getting out of his stance esp with the quicker guys in the gap. He also gets plain beat. All I stated was he needs to work on his pass protection and if he doesn't improve someone will eventually replace him.

You really can have the last word. I'd would appreciate it if it was something more substantial.

Here's enough "data" to convince anyone.

Travis Frederick would have never been selected on the all rookie team if any one of the voters considered him a liability in the passing game. Not a single GM, scout or analyst would agree with your opinion. You are out on an island with a fancy colorful, and meaningless, chart.

What you stated was he was a liability. Not that he needed improvement. I agree that he can improve his pass blocking. He can improve everything but he is nowhere near the liability you claimed he is.

There is no chance whatsoever that he'll ever lose his job to Mackenzy Bernadeau. You are out in left field if you think there is even the slightest of competition there. Bernadeau is a solid backup/decent short term starter. Frederick is one of the best young centers in the league.

If I had to guess, Frederick's eventual replacement is in grade school right now.

 

[jobberone]

Here's enough "data" to convince anyone.

Travis Frederick would have never been selected on the all rookie team if any one of the voters considered him a liability in the passing game. Not a single GM, scout or analyst would agree with your opinion. You are out on an island with a fancy colorful, and meaningless, chart.

What you stated was he was a liability. Not that he needed improvement. I agree that he can improve his pass blocking. He can improve everything but he is nowhere near the liability you claimed he is.

There is no chance whatsoever that he'll ever lose his job to Mackenzy Bernadeau. You are out in left field if you think there is even the slightest of competition there. Bernadeau is a solid backup/decent short term starter. Frederick is one of the best young centers in the league.

If I had to guess, Frederick's eventual replacement is in grade school right now.

I'm just commenting on this part since you keep repeating that and that is not what I said. Here is what I actually said:

The only two locks are Smith and Fred for now. If Fred doesn't pick up the pass blocking better then he'll have some competition as both Mack and Martin can play center. Also Patrick can play center as well if he makes the team.

That is my initial comment about Fred.

Well he's basically a lock to start at center. That doesn't make him the best guy for the job although right now I'd say he is. He was more of a liability in the pass than some seem to think.

That's the only post in this thread I said the word liability. Saying he was more of a liability in pass protection than some seem to think is NOT the same as saying he is a liability. It merely insinuates his pass blocking wasn't as good as some thought.

I don't care what opinions are about what I say but I do care that people represent my posts in a reasonably accurate manner; which you are not doing. My only reason to reply again is you keep spinning my posts and misrepresenting what I've said. I'd like for you not to that again here since I've hopefully cleared that mistake up. Thanks.

 

[Hardline]

I could care less about charts. I seen Fredrick play last season. If you think he was a liability in the passing game then give me four more liabilities in the passing game.

 

[jobberone]

I could care less about charts. I seen Fredrick play last season. If you think he was a liability in the passing game then give me four more liabilities in the passing game.

I didn't say he was a liability. Read my post above. Jeez.

 

[Risen Star]

I'm just commenting on this part since you keep repeating that and that is not what I said. Here is what I actually said:

The only two locks are Smith and Fred for now. If Fred doesn't pick up the pass blocking better then he'll have some competition as both Mack and Martin can play center. Also Patrick can play center as well if he makes the team.

That is my initial comment about Fred.

Well he's basically a lock to start at center. That doesn't make him the best guy for the job although right now I'd say he is. He was more of a liability in the pass than some seem to think.

That's the only post in this thread I said the word liability. Saying he was more of a liability in pass protection than some seem to think is NOT the same as saying he is a liability. It merely insinuates his pass blocking wasn't as good as some thought.

I don't care what opinions are about what I say but I do care that people represent my posts in a reasonably accurate manner; which you are not doing. My only reason to reply again is you keep spinning my posts and misrepresenting what I've said. I'd like for you not to that again here since I've hopefully cleared that mistake up. Thanks.

I represented your stance accurately. Or at least what you said. You're backtracking now because I think even you don't believe it.

Saying "he was more of a liability against the pass than people think" is certainly calling him a liability to some degree and I just couldn't disagree more.

Claiming a JAG like Bernadeau could possibly steal his job is just odd.

Sorry. I just call it like I see it.

 

[AbeBeta]

He's a better run blocker than pass blocker right now but he is far from a liability. Phil Costa was a liability, not Travis Frederick.

You presented nothing but a very flawed opinion.

Also, nearly every rookie OL in this league comes in better at run than pass. OL far prefer run blocking because it is easier

 

[rkell87]

One of those slide shows but worth the clicks to see the players and read what commentary there is. My only disagreement would be Mack at RG and Martin at LG. I thought initially Martin might have trouble breaking into the starting lineup but I've changed my opinion on that. I don't know where he might play nor which of those three will ride the pine. Free is not a lock at RT either. The only two locks are Smith and Fred for now. If Fred doesn't pick up the pass blocking better then he'll have some competition as both Mack and Martin can play center. Also Patrick can play center as well if he makes the team.

This is a strength on the team and the depth here is very underrated here at times. I don't think many outside Dallas do know what we have on the OL.

God I hate slideshows.

Ditto. At least give me the "view all" option.

http://deslide.clusterfake.net/

go here and put in the url, doesn't work on this site but it does on a lot like bleacher report.

or you can save this to your bookmarks and it will automatically do for any site it supports.

javascriptfunction(){window.open('http://deslide.clusterfake.net?o=html_table&u=' encodeURIComponent(location.href));})()

edit:

ok in the above ignore the hyper link and the frown is : ( without the space between

 

[MichaelWinicki]

http://deslide.clusterfake.net/

go here and put in the url, doesn't work on this site but it does on a lot like bleacher report.

or you can save this to your bookmarks and it will automatically do for any site it supports.

javascriptfunction(){window.open('http://deslide.clusterfake.net?o=html_table&u=' encodeURIComponent(location.href));})()

edit:

ok in the above ignore the hyper link and the frown is : ( without the space between

Thank you kindly!

 

[Doomsday101]

I agree with your first statement.

As for getting beat...........I firmly believe with Frederick, fool me once...you know the rest.

I don't know a player in the league who does not get beat over the course of a season. Last season I view Frederick for what he was, a rookie. I felt he did a good job in both pass protection and run blocking and feel he will only get better. Part of it is getting the full off season in an NFL program and 2nd he will be a bit more wiser as he faces guys who have been in the league a good while and know the tricks of the trade. Much like Tyron Smith to me he looked like a different player last year than he did his rookie season and I fully expect him to take another step this season in his development.

 

[L-O-Jete]

Here's enough "data" to convince anyone.

Travis Frederick would have never been selected on the all rookie team if any one of the voters considered him a liability in the passing game. Not a single GM, scout or analyst would agree with your opinion. You are out on an island with a fancy colorful, and meaningless, chart.

What you stated was he was a liability. Not that he needed improvement. I agree that he can improve his pass blocking. He can improve everything but he is nowhere near the liability you claimed he is.

There is no chance whatsoever that he'll ever lose his job to Mackenzy Bernadeau. You are out in left field if you think there is even the slightest of competition there. Bernadeau is a solid backup/decent short term starter. Frederick is one of the best young centers in the league.

If I had to guess, Frederick's eventual replacement is in grade school right now.

Allthough I agree that there's no way you can seriously consider any other C on our team beating him out and see a very bright future for Mr. FredBeard...
That is not much of an arguement since I guess they have to pick someone for the spot and I can't think of any other rookie C from last year. He was clearly the best C of that rookie class, but that by itself doesn't mean he's destined for greatnes. Can someone name the last 10 all-rookie C's without looking it up? Are they all starting? How many non-all-rookie C's have been chosen All-Pro in the last decade?