News: DMN: Moore: Why the Cowboys think they got some steals in the third and fourth rounds

[Ken]

Collins had a 1st ground grade after 2014. But a new coaching staff came in and like many college players, he didn't seamlessly adjust to the new coaching staff.

The book on Frazier is he's the second coming of Barry Church (not a fan of). But, he's way faster than Church. Ran a 4.52 forty, with a 4.29 short shuttle, 6.96 3-cone, 40.5" vertical and 10-8" broad jump. That's far more explosive than anything Church could ever do. That's the real problem with Church, he's just not fast and quick enough to be a good safety in coverage. So if he plays like Church in terms of style but is far more explosive, that's a good thing. Now we just need him healthy and hopefully the new DB coaches are better than what Jerome Henderson had to offer and can actually develop a safety talent.





YR

Ya, if memory serves...Church was a 4.6 guy and that was BEFORE he tore his Achilles...

 

[Rogerthat12]

Collins had a 1st ground grade after 2014. But a new coaching staff came in and like many college players, he didn't seamlessly adjust to the new coaching staff.

The book on Frazier is he's the second coming of Barry Church (not a fan of). But, he's way faster than Church. Ran a 4.52 forty, with a 4.29 short shuttle, 6.96 3-cone, 40.5" vertical and 10-8" broad jump. That's far more explosive than anything Church could ever do. That's the real problem with Church, he's just not fast and quick enough to be a good safety in coverage. So if he plays like Church in terms of style but is far more explosive, that's a good thing. Now we just need him healthy and hopefully the new DB coaches are better than what Jerome Henderson had to offer and can actually develop a safety talent.





YR

Yeah, Collins has something to offer after watching a lot of his game tape and the coaching switch did him no favors as you mention.

He definitely fits that 3 tech with the skill of interior pass rushing ability, this guy attacks and goes right up field.

I can see why Marinelli told him he fit the Cowboys like a T, I really think he is going to develop into something we have been missing on our DL.

 

[tyke1doe]

Don't the Cowboys always think they get steals in the lower rounds?

 

[DFWJC]

This draft does have potential

Might be how I would have done it, but it may be great

 

[slick325]

Looking forward to seeing the DL play. I was down a bit after the draft because I wanted defensive players esp a DL in the first. But I think the resources we had tied up in the DL deserve to be seen after a year in the weight and film room. I'm excited about Tapper and Collins esp Tapper.

Really good post jobber. Straightforward about wanting a defensive draft but still optimistic. Good stuff...

 

[Yakuza Rich]

Ya, if memory serves...Church was a 4.6 guy and that was BEFORE he tore his Achilles...

He was 4.69 and 4.72.

40 times don't mean a lot to me because they are all trained how to run the 40 these days and the 40 times get mushed together.

The vertical and broad jumps mean more. Not much in the way of technique can be done to improve those.





YR

 

[ThreeandOut]

Yeah, Collins has something to offer after watching a lot of his game tape and the coaching switch did him no favors as you mention.

He definitely fits that 3 tech with the skill of interior pass rushing ability, this guy attacks and goes right up field.

I can see why Marinelli told him he fit the Cowboys like a T, I really think he is going to develop into something we have been missing on our DL.

I think the Cowboys likely had a pretty high 2nd round grade on Collins. They may have been okay redshirting that 34th pick because they probably felt they were getting 2nd round value with Collins.

 

[irishline]

Don't the Cowboys always think they get steals in the lower rounds?

Honestly though don't all teams? I mean don't they at least say they got a quality player who will fit there scheme or help them? I am fairly sure they do, we just don't pay much attention to other team's round 3 to 7 player press conferences.

It's not like a team drafts a player in a lower round and at their press conference say "Well we don't think he is going to contribute or grow into a player for us, but we had to use the pick and he was available."

 

[Rogerthat12]

I think the Cowboys likely had a pretty high 2nd round grade on Collins. They may have been okay redshirting that 34th pick because they probably felt they were getting 2nd round value with Collins.

Could be the case and I think he indeed may be a perfect fit for this defense after watching his tape, really just what this defense needs.

 

[Hardline]

There are 31 other teams that think they got steals in the 3rd and 4th round.

 

[Ken]

He was 4.69 and 4.72.

40 times don't mean a lot to me because they are all trained how to run the 40 these days and the 40 times get mushed together.

The vertical and broad jumps mean more. Not much in the way of technique can be done to improve those.





YR

I can tell you that .2 difference between Church and Kavon is significant, trained or not!

 

[JoeyBoy718]

I disagree. Romo had been running for his life virtually the entire time leading up to his back issues.

There was a decent year of rushing with Barber and Felix, but Romo was largely responsible for that. It wasn't like we had this great power running game; it was a bunch of shotgun misdirection stuff, and Barber was really good for a short stint. Kosier was OK, but Adams was old, followed by an awful time with Free at LT (along with McQuistan). Davis was disinterested, and Columbo was good for short stretches when his knees would cooperate. It just wasn't reliable week in and week out.

Dallas can play legitimate smashmouth football with this line, and it not only helps Romo, but it's excellent for cold weather later down the road.

Somehow, that's got to translate to a more opportunistic defense like in 2014. I still think if Murray doesn't fumble, Dallas had an excellent shot at going to Seattle and winning again.

So what you're saying is you need a balanced offense with an elite O-line and weapons to go along with your elite QB. That's a heck of a lot different than saying all you need is an elite QB.

 

[Risen Star]

On a side note, the Falcons signed their entire draft class already. Why haven't we signed anybody? Are we facing a bunch of hold outs?

 

[CCBoy]

If this group keeps up with the injury trends that come along in all starting units in the NFL, I will be greatly excigted about this season as well as the future. I think there is a ton of upside to this very group in house now.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

I disagree. Romo had been running for his life virtually the entire time leading up to his back issues.

There was a decent year of rushing with Barber and Felix, but Romo was largely responsible for that. It wasn't like we had this great power running game; it was a bunch of shotgun misdirection stuff, and Barber was really good for a short stint. Kosier was OK, but Adams was old, followed by an awful time with Free at LT (along with McQuistan). Davis was disinterested, and Columbo was good for short stretches when his knees would cooperate. It just wasn't reliable week in and week out.

Dallas can play legitimate smashmouth football with this line, and it not only helps Romo, but it's excellent for cold weather later down the road.

Somehow, that's got to translate to a more opportunistic defense like in 2014. I still think if Murray doesn't fumble, Dallas had an excellent shot at going to Seattle and winning again.

That happens when you are throwing the ball 50 times a game and not balancing the Offensive Attack with the run game. That's not all on the OL either. A lot of that is on Garrett and the OC. You can't call games like that and expect your QB to stay healthy. Some of that is also Romo. He broke the pocket a lot when he was younger and that costs you when you get older in the NFL. That's why Offenses like the Run and Shoot don't really work in the NFL.

 

[erod]

That happens when you are throwing the ball 50 times a game and not balancing the Offensive Attack with the run game. That's not all on the OL either. A lot of that is on Garrett and the OC. You can't call games like that and expect your QB to stay healthy. Some of that is also Romo. He broke the pocket a lot when he was younger and that costs you when you get older in the NFL. That's why Offenses like the Run and Shoot don't really work in the NFL.

They simply couldn't run. There was zero push on the offensive line. Zero, zilch, nada. 3rd-and-1 might as well have been 3rd-and-20, and Dallas was forced to run shotgun in short yardage to have a chance at converting.

The Frederick pick started to change that (Tyron was here), and by 2014, Dallas was probably the best short yardage run team in the league, or one of them. Romo's throws went way down as a result.

The offense is primed, and Elliott gives an offensive line of this caliber what it needs....someone who can truly realize the opportunities it creates, not just take 75 percent of it and require 392 carries to do so.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

They simply couldn't run. There was zero push on the offensive line. Zero, zilch, nada. 3rd-and-1 might as well have been 3rd-and-20, and Dallas was forced to run shotgun in short yardage to have a chance at converting.

The Frederick pick started to change that (Tyron was here), and by 2014, Dallas was probably the best short yardage run team in the league, or one of them. Romo's throws went way down as a result.

The offense is primed, and Elliott gives an offensive line of this caliber what it needs....someone who can truly realize the opportunities it creates, not just take 75 percent of it and require 392 carries to do so.

That's a combination of things, like age and scheme and talent level but your statement was that if you have a good QB and a good OL, those teams win regardless. That statement is not accurate. We have had teams where we had decent OLs and we have had Tony for a while now and we haven't won anything. That is not all it takes to win IMO. That's the point I am trying to illustrate.

 

[TheMarathonContinues]

Truth is, everybody does about the same. The teams with elite healthy quarterbacks win. The teams without them lose. And on it goes.

Contrary to popular belief..... Seahawks and Patriots drafting has been terrible. Far worse than Jerrys...... But like you said you have quarterbacks and it will mask that.

 

[erod]

That's a combination of things, like age and scheme and talent level but your statement was that if you have a good QB and a good OL, those teams win regardless. That statement is not accurate. We have had teams where we had decent OLs and we have had Tony for a while now and we haven't won anything. That is not all it takes to win IMO. That's the point I am trying to illustrate.

I didn't say you win Super Bowls. I said you'll be very competitive with a healthy QB and OL and marginal talent elsewhere.

I guarantee you a cornerback with zero interceptions won't mean much of a difference at all. He's just a spoke in a wheel. Elliott could be monumentally impactful.

Would you have liked to have Ladanian Tomlinson? Well, I think you just got him.

 

[JD_KaPow]

Of course they think they got steals in the late rounds. Every team thinks they got steals in the late rounds. After all, if you picked the guy, it inherently means you valued him higher than other teams did. And nothing has changed a week after the draft: there's really no new information, unless somebody tears an Achilles at minicamp or something. It would be truly bizarre if a team didn't think they got steals in the late rounds at this point.