Does collusion go two ways?

[Rogah]

There can be a positive 'collusion' between two industry controlling elements, when there is a positive gain resulting from that action.

I don't think it is even remotely plausible that Elway and Jones were having a phone call asking how they could increase their offers and figure out a way they could give their players the most money imaginable.

Both contracts are second highest of current deals for position. No one says there is collusion of both didn't surpass Johnson's windfall when it went down. Things have changed somewhat as to standards in practice.

I am not saying there was any collusion. I honestly don't know. If anything, the accusation smacked of a desperation move by the NFLPA. I'm just saying that the fact that each player signed a contract doesn't indemnify Elway and Jones.

 

[CCBoy]

I don't think it is even remotely plausible that Elway and Jones were having a phone call asking how they could increase their offers and figure out a way they could give their players the most money imaginable.
I am not saying there was any collusion. I honestly don't know. If anything, the accusation smacked of a desperation move by the NFLPA. I'm just saying that the fact that each player signed a contract doesn't indemnify Elway and Jones.

Your statements are logical. If pursuing a criminal action, elements of proof have to all be proven out. I was knocking a leg out of those elements of criminal action.

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

There is a difference from understanding topic fully and insult...you end up a lot in the later.

Colusion is simply the agreement by two parties. Period. Now criminal colusion involves penalty to a person affected by that agreement.

Both Bryant and Thomas benefited from lucrative contracts that they agreed upon. So any consideration at this point, of illegal collusion between Denver and Dallas is mute. Now run along and continue not understanding.

I stated it exactly as was presented on the NFL channel when the contracts were both signed.

The NFL channel has a natural conflict of interest in this considering their ownership. There are different ways of reviewing antitrust statutes that I have read used in sports laws. One is the judicial review that you are mentioning where they look at public good and harm. You are ignoring opportunity cost and they could easily show WR salaries going down but it certainly is not burning down the whole village like a no signing would have looked like.

The other is a de facto review. Did they or did they not break the letter of the law. If they were talking about the deal and then Denver signs the exact same deal after the fact. If there is a paper or other trail of evidence that could get legs too. Kessler is pretty good about picking his battles so I doubt he goes for this but I wouldn't say that there is nothing there particularly in light of us being ignorant to all manner of particulars.

 

[JD_KaPow]

There can be a positive 'collusion' between two industry controlling elements, anti trust sized corporations, when there is a positive gain resulting from that action. Such as a consumer's price of product being reduced by the 'collusion.'

The only way I can imagine that companies would collude to reduce prices would be to undercut competition and drive it out of the market, leaving a larger share for the colluders. There's nothing positive about that.

 

[SilverStarCowboy]

I'm colluding to run a red light and glide through a stop sign soon ... but no flags so I'm good rite?

 

[Stash]

If the agent had proof of the two teams discussing terms of contract and negotiations then the have proof of collusion. He can posture all he wants but Apple lost a very high profile case over labor collusion on the strength of a memo. That wasn't hard to prove.

Corporate entities should not enjoy the rights of citizens. They already shield people from criminal liability as it is.

The memo you mention would have been the 'smoking gun'. But it's highly unlikely the Cowboys and Broncos would be dumb enough to have put anything of the sort in writing.

 

[CCBoy]

The NFL channel has a natural conflict of interest in this considering their ownership. There are different ways of reviewing antitrust statutes that I have read used in sports laws. One is the judicial review that you are mentioning where they look at public good and harm. You are ignoring opportunity cost and they could easily show WR salaries going down but it certainly is not burning down the whole village like a no signing would have looked like.

The other is a de facto review. Did they or did they not break the letter of the law. If they were talking about the deal and then Denver signs the exact same deal after the fact. If there is a paper or other trail of evidence that could get legs too. Kessler is pretty good about picking his battles so I doubt he goes for this but I wouldn't say that there is nothing there particularly in light of us being ignorant to all manner of particulars.

Good add here, Fuzzy....

 

[CCBoy]

The only way I can imagine that companies would collude to reduce prices would be to undercut competition and drive it out of the market, leaving a larger share for the colluders. There's nothing positive about that.

It could also deal with industry cost and both companies benefiting from a non-competitive approach. Like with soccer, where two resources bid for the World Cup and the Olympics seperately, but put cost in the arena of a $Billion dollars through escalated bidding. Each can only afford one event or the other, but to their advantage, they agree to not bid but for one even and remove the escalating cost to acquire the contract. Lowering the cost from a destructive level for both participants.

 

[Galian Beast]

With the signing, the wide receiver market has set a new ceiling. Top goes from 16 million to 14 million. This will impact everyone on the spectrum.

 

[CCBoy]

I'm colluding to run a red light and glide through a stop sign soon ... but no flags so I'm good rite?

Depends on whose riding along with you, and if they are fools or not.

 

[BrAinPaiNt]

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/07/16/legal-collusion-helped-dez-demaryius-get-deals-done/

 

[LittleBoyBlue]

Suppose Elway told Jones "we are offering 5 years, $70 million and not a penny more" so Jones also used that as his maximum amount. That's textbook collusion whether the players signed the deals or not.

Wrong again.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/07/16/legal-collusion-helped-dez-demaryius-get-deals-done/

You get tired of it yet?

 

[casmith07]

Their very agreement then is a form of collusion between two parties.

On its face, collective bargaining is a form of "legal collusion."

 

[CCBoy]

On its face, collective bargaining is a form of "legal collusion."

Thank you, Sir...I've just been saying that for two days now.

Either a positive or negative effect for those affected determines legality.

Some are thinking whether or not great enrichment is involved...which is not on principal.

 

[BrAinPaiNt]

Thank you, Sir...I've just been saying that for two days now.

Either a positive or negative effect for those affected determines legality.

Some are thinking whether or not great enrichment is involved...which is not on principal.

http://i18.***BLOCKED***/albums/b133/BrAinPaiNt/Principalities_zpsgciwaaic.jpg

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

http://i18.***BLOCKED***/albums/b133/BrAinPaiNt/Principalities_zpsgciwaaic.jpg

Nice move BP. Literally, any discussion can be improved upon by simply reflecting on the writings and works of the Big Perm, I mean Big Worm!

 

[Rogah]

Wrong again.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/07/16/legal-collusion-helped-dez-demaryius-get-deals-done/

You get tired of it yet?

What the heck are you talking about? I specifically said the players can collude. An agent cannot sell out the best interests of his own player, but they can certainly work together.

I said Elway and Jones cannot collude. Newsflash: Elway and Jones are not players.

Reading comprehension is your friend - you should consider it sometime!! But keep trying, little buddy!!

 

[casmith07]

Nice move BP. Literally, any discussion can be improved upon by simply reflecting on the rightings and works of the Big Perm, I mean Big Worm!

You better have my money, Smokey!

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

You better have my money, Smokey!

I know, I know, I'm messing with your emotions.

In fact, I have your money right here. 20, 40, 60,80,100, ABQ flips over money, 120.........

 

[LittleBoyBlue]

What the heck are you talking about? I specifically said the players can collude. An agent cannot sell out the best interests of his own player, but they can certainly work together.

I said Elway and Jones cannot collude. Newsflash: Elway and Jones are not players.

Reading comprehension is your friend - you should consider it sometime!! But keep trying, little buddy!!

I can read good. Even gooder than you.

You sling insults and need to run to and be protected by the mods. You sir ..... are the... "little buddy".