Dr Z? -- Zoners help me please......

[CrazyCowboy]

ZONERS: Help me understand what Dr Z is trying to say? Positive or Negative? I don't get it......thanks in advance

Dallas Cowboys (4-4)
Did you see the numbers that Tony Romo ran up against the Skins? Try 24-for-36 for 284 yards and a ranking of 109.0. Do you realize that these kind of numbers in, say, the John Unitas era would have people talking about Romo as if he were the second coming. That's another reason why I don't like the system.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2006/writers/dr_z/11/08/ranks.part2/index.html

 

[SultanOfSix]

I have no idea if he's trying to be positive with that comment or negative.

 

[superpunk]

I think what he's saying is...

Romo > Unitas

 

[dogberry]

I think Dr. Z doesn't like the rating system. Kinda like some folks don't care for Troy's.

 

[Yakuza Rich]

Once you start getting into the 80's and earlier, the QB ratings for the top QB's go down.

The reason for this is back in the day the passing patterns were much deeper. Thus, in Unitas' day the top QB's had lower completion %'s, higher amount of INT's, more yards per attempt. The end result was lower QB ratings.

Now with teams trying to protect the QB and protect the ball along with the influence of the West Coast offense, there's shorter pass patterns that result in higher completion %'s, less INT's and usually a higher QB rating.

Dr. Z is saying that the QB rating system is flawed because it's making a QB like Romo look like Johnny Unitas.

That being said, I don't understand Z's reasoning on this one. Romo looked flat out great against the Skins on Sunday. And that was with Owens dropping a surefire 74 yard touchdown pass.


YAKUZA

 

[peplaw06]

I think he's saying he's overrated, at least in regards to those stats. And that the NFL's emphasis on more offense is inflating numbers to make people seem better than they are.

 

[CrazyCowboy]

Once you start getting into the 80's and earlier, the QB ratings for the top QB's go down.

The reason for this is back in the day the passing patterns were much deeper. Thus, in Unitas' day the top QB's had lower completion %'s, higher amount of INT's, more yards per attempt. The end result was lower QB ratings.

Now with teams trying to protect the QB and protect the ball along with the influence of the West Coast offense, there's shorter pass patterns that result in higher completion %'s, less INT's and usually a higher QB rating.

Dr. Z is saying that the QB rating system is flawed because it's making a QB like Romo look like Johnny Unitas.

That being said, I don't understand Z's reasoning on this one. Romo looked flat out great against the Skins on Sunday. And that was with Owens dropping a surefire 74 yard touchdown pass.


YAKUZA

OK, what you said "That being said, I don't understand Z's reasoning on this one. Romo looked flat out great against the Skins on Sunday. And that was with Owens dropping a surefire 74 yard touchdown pass.", is the reason I got confused.......thanks, I understand now.

 

[SultanOfSix]

That being said, I don't understand Z's reasoning on this one. Romo looked flat out great against the Skins on Sunday. And that was with Owens dropping a surefire 74 yard touchdown pass.

YAKUZA

Romo completed two passes over 40 yards in that game, and that's not factoring in that 74 yard surefire TD pass that was dropped. There were several other throws over 15 yards as well. I'll bet his yards per catch were pretty high too.

If Dr. Z is trying to be negative about Romo (trying to say he didn't play that great and the way the system is set up makes it look like he did), he did a piss-poor job at it.

 

[Waffle]

It's easy to figure out. Dr. Z doesn't like the passer rating system nor does he like the Cowboys.

 

[Stash]

If he's looking to take a shot at the ratings system, he certainly could have looked for a better example.

Instead of making the system look bad, he made himself look bad.

And spare us all the "old school" analogies too.

Today's NFL players would clean the old-timer's clocks - bigger, stronger, faster, smarter. The evolution of the NFL.

 

[percyhoward]

Career Passer Rating
Mark Brunell: 84.4
Roger Staubach: 83.4

I think Dr. Z was trying to defend QB's of an earlier era. For example, looking at passer rating, Brunnel has been a better QB over his career than Staubach. I'm sure there are people somewhere who would use this stat to argue that Brunell should be in the Hall of Fame. But you have to consider the QB within the context of his era (see Yakuza's post).

Brunell never won a passing title. Staubach won four. In fact, at the time he retired, Staubach was the highest rated passer of all-time.

 

[sonnyboy]

Once you start getting into the 80's and earlier, the QB ratings for the top QB's go down.

The reason for this is back in the day the passing patterns were much deeper. Thus, in Unitas' day the top QB's had lower completion %'s, higher amount of INT's, more yards per attempt. The end result was lower QB ratings.

Now with teams trying to protect the QB and protect the ball along with the influence of the West Coast offense, there's shorter pass patterns that result in higher completion %'s, less INT's and usually a higher QB rating.

Dr. Z is saying that the QB rating system is flawed because it's making a QB like Romo look like Johnny Unitas.

That being said, I don't understand Z's reasoning on this one. Romo looked flat out great against the Skins on Sunday. And that was with Owens dropping a surefire 74 yard touchdown pass.


YAKUZA

Hard to say if he's attacking the rating system, Romo or maybe both. But if what you're saying is right, I think Romo's a bad choice. Seems to me his good rating is more impacted by his high YPA then by his TD to INT ratio that's not all that good.

I've always felt the QB rating system was flawed. Believe that pass TD's and completion percentage are weighted to high. The most telling stat in my opinion is YPA with %INT a close second. Not exactly sure how the current system works but I'm pretty sure that in the case with two players having the same YPA, the player with the higher comp% would be rater higher. That's a fundamental flaw.
YPA is just about everything everything. If you want to accurately judge how effeicent a passing game is, look no further.
<6.00 is terrible, 6.00-6.50 poor, 6.50-7.00 average, 7.00-7.5 good, 7.5-8.0 excellent, 8.0 plus is outstanding. You might have 1-3 QB's a year with that number.
In my QB rating system would use: YPA %INT %PassTD and %offensiveTD since I think QB that lead successful drives ending in short TD runs need to get that credit.

BTW Only McNabb Romo and P.Manning are plus 8.00 YPA so far this year.

 

[manimal]

I think he's saying he's overrated, at least in regards to those stats. And that the NFL's emphasis on more offense is inflating numbers to make people seem better than they are.

I agree with this.

I dont think hes specifically targeting the qb rating system as much as the whole. The NFL is not as physical, the corners ca touch the recievers much less than they used to and the restrictions on hitting quaterbacks are getting more and more ridiculous.

 

[DallasInDC]

If you really want to compare Romo's performance to Jonny U's, Dr. Z should have compared Romo's stats to his peers and then Jonny U's stats to his peers and extrapolated the data. that would have given a trued up view.

 

[lurkercowboy]

In fact, at the time he retired, Staubach was the highest rated passer of all-time.

That is proof that the system worked perfectly at the time.

 

[LittleBoyBlue]

Once you start getting into the 80's and earlier, the QB ratings for the top QB's go down.

The reason for this is back in the day the passing patterns were much deeper. Thus, in Unitas' day the top QB's had lower completion %'s, higher amount of INT's, more yards per attempt. The end result was lower QB ratings.

Now with teams trying to protect the QB and protect the ball along with the influence of the West Coast offense, there's shorter pass patterns that result in higher completion %'s, less INT's and usually a higher QB rating.

Dr. Z is saying that the QB rating system is flawed because it's making a QB like Romo look like Johnny Unitas.

That being said, I don't understand Z's reasoning on this one. Romo looked flat out great against the Skins on Sunday. And that was with Owens dropping a surefire 74 yard touchdown pass.


YAKUZA

Thanks for that Yak....

I see what he is saying(NOW thanks to Rich BUT... its not like when Mark Brunell tie or set the record of completions and they were all like 5 yards throws.... ROMO made some BIG TIME throws

 

[percyhoward]

That is proof that the system worked perfectly at the time.

 

[burmafrd]

Actually I think Otto Graham had a slightly higher rating, but I am not sure.
YPA and INT% and TD% should be the major points, with completion %, and maybe third down completion % as contributors.

 

[dcfanatic]

Dr. Z farts dust, who cares what he thinks of Tony Romo, lol.

 

[percyhoward]

Actually I think Otto Graham had a slightly higher rating, but I am not sure.
YPA and INT% and TD% should be the major points, with completion %, and maybe third down completion % as contributors.

Graham did most of his damage in the All-America Football Conference. Once in the NFL, he threw more INT's than TD's and his rating was 78.2