Draft - 3-4 teams in 2006?

Nors

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The shift of several coaches and coordinators throughout the league is also expected to help shift the draft attention of 4-5 more teams to select players that might fit full-time or at least part-time into 3-4 defensive scheme... NEW ORLEANS, ST. LOUIS, NY JETS could be just three teams that look to draft or sign a nose tackle, more versatile OLB’s and find a bigger, tougher ILB to solidify the middle of their new schemes…


GIANTS, DOLPHINS??????


Going to make how you draft a DT in rounds 1 and 2 real competitive. Also will insure Lawson/Carpenter off board WHEN WE ARE ON CLOCK IN 2 also?

reactions? plan?
 

junk

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NO said they were staying 4-3.

I wouldn't be surprised to see Houston revert back to 4-3 as well.

Doubt the Giants go 3-4. Miami will be "3-4 ish", but not really a true 3-4 yet.....if at all. Saban didn't really run a true 3-4 at LSU.
 

Nors

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junk said:
NO said they were staying 4-3.

I wouldn't be surprised to see Houston revert back to 4-3 as well.

Doubt the Giants go 3-4. Miami will be "3-4 ish", but not really a true 3-4 yet.....if at all. Saban didn't really run a true 3-4 at LSU.

NO - Reread - said there were 4-5 teams moving to permanent or PT 3-4

"The shift of several coaches and coordinators throughout the league is also expected to help shift the draft attention of 4-5 more teams to select players that might fit full-time or at least part-time into 3-4 defensive scheme... NEW ORLEANS, ST. LOUIS, NY JETS could be just three teams that look to draft or sign a nose tackle, more versatile OLB’s and find a bigger, tougher ILB to solidify the middle of their new schemes…"


Giants and Dolphins played some 3-4 looks last year and both coaches have 3-4 backgrounds. Back to topic - 3-4 players are going to be tougher to get to in draft as 3-4 clearly is expanding in NFL in 2006.
 

Nors

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3-4 DEFENSE COMES OF AGEBrowns playing follow the leader in switching plan of attack that Patriots, Steelers useBy Marla RidenourBeacon Journal sports writerJoe Collier could sit in front of his television on Sundays this season like a proud grandpa.
Now 73, the longtime defensive coordinator of the Denver Broncos was one of the first to bring the 3-4 defense to the NFL.
He experimented with it in the 1960s when he was in Buffalo and used it extensively in the 1970s with the famed ``Orange Crush.'' Miami Dolphins assistant head coach Bill Arnsparger installed it in the perfect season of 1972 when the ``No-Name Defense'' was ravaged by injuries.
Collier called those two the greatest 3-4 defenses he's ever seen. But he and Arnsparger borrowed the alignment from legendary Oklahoma coach Bud Wilkinson, who was running a set of three defensive linemen and four linebackers in the 1940s and '50s. As Collier explained, when there was no such thing as the NFL combine, pro coaches scouted college talent during spring practice, and if they saw something they liked, they copied it.
Now in the NFL, copy-cat moves have reached such heights, it's a wonder Kinko's isn't an official sponsor.
Thanks to the New England Patriots' three Super Bowl championships in the past four years with the 3-4, the scheme is all the rage. The Browns, Dallas Cowboys and San Francisco 49ers are switching to it this season. Miami, ranked among the top 10 defenses for the past seven seasons with a 4-3, will use the 3-4 for 15 to 20 percent of its snaps under first-year coach Nick Saban.
Pittsburgh, San Diego, Houston, Oakland and New England have been running the 3-4, which will bring the number of teams using it as their base defense to eight. The number is nine if you count Miami.
During the mid-1990s, only the Steelers were using it full time.
``Some are doing it because of the success of Pittsburgh and New England,'' said Collier, now retired and living in Denver. ``Everyone looks at the top teams to see what they can install. Some of the new coaches, Romeo has been doing it for a lot of years, Mike Nolan at San Francisco has had a lot of success with it. But five years from now, everyone will be in a four-man line again. It's crazy.''
The Browns' Crennel was first exposed to the 3-4 when he began his pro career with the New York Giants, where current New England coach Bill Belichick became defensive coordinator. Then Crennel called signals for it under Belichick for the past four seasons as Patriots defensive coordinator. And for the most part, the rise of the scheme can be traced to men from such coaching trees as Belichick's and Ansparger's.
Saban formerly worked under Belichick with the Browns. Houston's Dom Capers ran it in Pittsburgh. San Diego's Marty Schottenheimer was a disciple of Arnsparger's, and Pittsburgh's Bill Cowher learned it from Schottenheimer.
``I like the versatility because you have linebackers at the end of the line. They're the guys who can walk out,'' Crennel said. ``You don't have to take inside linebackers out of the box, (so) then you still have a chance to be effective against the run and also make adjustments to multiple formations on offense.''
Capers said the key word is versatility, which also means unpredictability.
``In a 4-3, you pretty much know the four rushers are coming from the linemen,'' Capers said. ``With the 3-4, you've got the three down linemen and your fourth rusher is going to come from one of those four linebackers. So which one is it? And when you add a fifth rusher, what combination of those four linebackers are you going to rush? You can bring a lot of different combinations.''
But the key to the rise of the 3-4 could also be talent -- or a lack of it. And even that has a root in history.
``We were not going to use it full-time in Denver, then on the first play of the first game we lost defensive lineman Lyle Alzado,'' Collier said, remembering back in 1976. ``I looked at the personnel and we had pretty good linebackers and not as many good defensive linemen.''
The next season, the Broncos made their first Super Bowl appearance.
Arnsparger was motivated in the same way in 1972. With injuries wiping out his defensive line, he took linebacker Bob Matheson and made him a hybrid. Obtained from the Browns a season before, Matheson had two sacks in his first game and stayed there all year as the Dolphins recorded the only undefeated season in NFL history.
Indianapolis coach Tony Dungy said in a 4-3, ``Your defensive linemen are the marquee players. They're the guys that have to make things happen. A 3-4 defense is linebacker-driven.''
Lately, coaches seem to feel it's easier to find linebackers.
``It's harder to find the great rush defensive end in the 4-3,'' Cowher said. ``Now maybe you're better off trying to create pressure with a combination of blitzes.''
Atlanta coach Jim Mora Jr. said his father went to the 3-4 in New Orleans ``because he had the greatest group of linebackers in history'' in Rickey Jackson, Pat Swilling, Sam Mills and Vaughan Johnson. But Crennel said the linchpin of the 3-4 is the nose tackle.
``Ideally, inside you need at least one Ted Johnson type, the guy that can hammer,'' Crennel said. ``I think you have to be good down the middle in the 3-4... nose tackle, inside linebackers, safeties.''
As Collier observed: ``Big defensive linemen are rare birds; you've got to go high for them in the draft. And you need more than four, you need six or seven who can play.
``Linebackers are a little bit easier to find. Defensive linemen in college who are 250 pounds might not be big enough for the pros but you can make them into linebackers, pass-rushing guys.''
That's exactly what Houston has done with outside linebacker Jason Babin, a first-round draft pick who played end at Western Michigan. And it's the same path taken by New England's Mike Vrabel and Willie McGinest and Pittsburgh's Joey Porter. Miami's Jason Taylor, a University of Akron product, is switching from end to linebacker this season, along with Cleveland's Kenard Lang.
Lang said he knew if he wanted to remain on the team, he'd be better off making the switch than fighting it. And he seems inspired by the aggressive nature of new defensive coordinator Todd Grantham, who came from Houston.
``That's what a lot of our guys like,'' Lang said. ``Our coordinator's not going to sit back and take it, he'd rather be the hitter than the `hittee.' ''
Browns defensive end Orpheus Roye played in the 3-4 in Pittsburgh for four seasons, but said Cleveland's system might be more aggressive than that one. And he finds it hard to argue with Crennel's five Super Bowl rings, two from the Giants and three from the Patriots.
``Some coaches have different philosophies and Romeo's been winning Super Bowls with it, so I guess he believes in it,'' Roye said. ``You can't question that.''

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Dayton Cowboy

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I can only think there are four teams that I can think of that are currently drafting ahead of Dallas that might take players we are targeting as 3-4 OLBs.

4. Jets- though I think they take D'Brick

6/7*coin flip*. 49'ers- They'll probably go a playmaker on offense to help out Alex Smith's development.

8. Bills- Probably Ngata but could go for a big OL prospect.

12. Browns- They could easily go OLB for Romeo's 3-4 or they could also try and shore their OLine
 

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Dayton_Cowboy said:
I can only think there are four teams that I can think of that are currently drafting ahead of Dallas that might take players we are targeting as 3-4 OLBs.

4. Jets- though I think they take D'Brick

6/7*coin flip*. 49'ers- They'll probably go a playmaker on offense to help out Alex Smith's development.

8. Bills- Probably Ngata but could go for a big OL prospect.

12. Browns- They could easily go OLB for Romeo's 3-4 or they could also try and shore their OLine

Totally agree - I'll go there and agree - Ngata off board leaving Watson only NT draft worthy at #18. I'll throw Lawson to Browns at #12. So now do you take Carpenter at #18? Watson at #18?

Say we pass and go elsewhere - you have all the 3-4 teams behind us in One and all the 3-4 teams again ahead of us in 2nd. All the prime 3-4 pieces will be gone by our pick in second?

Going to put pressure on our #18 selection if we are looking front 7 on Defense first two rounds.


TE may be coming into play as two real studs there at #18.
 

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Nors said:
NO - Reread - said there were 4-5 teams moving to permanent or PT 3-4

"The shift of several coaches and coordinators throughout the league is also expected to help shift the draft attention of 4-5 more teams to select players that might fit full-time or at least part-time into 3-4 defensive scheme... NEW ORLEANS, ST. LOUIS, NY JETS could be just three teams that look to draft or sign a nose tackle, more versatile OLB’s and find a bigger, tougher ILB to solidify the middle of their new schemes…"


Giants and Dolphins played some 3-4 looks last year and both coaches have 3-4 backgrounds. Back to topic - 3-4 players are going to be tougher to get to in draft as 3-4 clearly is expanding in NFL in 2006.

I did read it. It said 4-5 teams MIGHT select players that fit full or part time 3-4 defensive schemes.

It then lists NO (New Orleans) whose defensive coordinator is ON RECORD saying they are staying 4-3.

I also noted that Houston, which is currently 3-4, is talking of moving back to a 4-3. That would take one more team out of the running. Saban doesn't really run a true 3-4. Like I said, 3-4 ish.

I don't care if Coughlin has a 3-4 background (he doesn't really, he has an offensive background), they aren't going to run much 3-4 when they have Umeniyora and Strahan.

I wasn't off topic, I was just pointing out the inconsistencies in your post. BTW, 4-3 teams like big ILBs, versatile OLBs and NTs too. It just means more attention on undersized DEs.
 

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Sean said during his PC when he was introduced as HC that he was going to run the 4-3.
 

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HomeOfLegends said:
Sean said during his PC when he was introduced as HC that he was going to run the 4-3.

So did Gary Gibbs.

Granted, there are going to be a potential run of 3-4 players taken at the end of 1, top of 2. Dallas, SD, NE, Pitt, SF, Cleveland.

However, the statement above was incorrect.
 

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junk said:
I did read it. It said 4-5 teams MIGHT select players that fit full or part time 3-4 defensive schemes.

It then lists NO (New Orleans) whose defensive coordinator is ON RECORD saying they are staying 4-3.

I also noted that Houston, which is currently 3-4, is talking of moving back to a 4-3. That would take one more team out of the running. Saban doesn't really run a true 3-4. Like I said, 3-4 ish.

I don't care if Coughlin has a 3-4 background (he doesn't really, he has an offensive background), they aren't going to run much 3-4 when they have Umeniyora and Strahan.

I wasn't off topic, I was just pointing out the inconsistencies in your post. BTW, 4-3 teams like big ILBs, versatile OLBs and NTs too. It just means more attention on undersized DEs.
Aren't you glad you didn't ask him the difference between a Draw and a Delay?
 

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Nors said:
Totally agree - I'll go there and agree - Ngata off board leaving Watson only NT draft worthy at #18. I'll throw Lawson to Browns at #12. So now do you take Carpenter at #18? Watson at #18?

Say we pass and go elsewhere - you have all the 3-4 teams behind us in One and all the 3-4 teams again ahead of us in 2nd. All the prime 3-4 pieces will be gone by our pick in second?

Going to put pressure on our #18 selection if we are looking front 7 on Defense first two rounds.


TE may be coming into play as two real studs there at #18.

The only problem I have with your philosophy is that being forced into a pick at #18 is the worst thing we could do. Once again, the best way to approach a draft is to let things come to you, take the BAP and move on. We can't force a pick at #18 because the guy migh tnot get back around to us in the 2nd. That's just crazy.
 

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Nors said:
Totally agree - I'll go there and agree - Ngata off board leaving Watson only NT draft worthy at #18. I'll throw Lawson to Browns at #12. So now do you take Carpenter at #18? Watson at #18?

Say we pass and go elsewhere - you have all the 3-4 teams behind us in One and all the 3-4 teams again ahead of us in 2nd. All the prime 3-4 pieces will be gone by our pick in second?

Going to put pressure on our #18 selection if we are looking front 7 on Defense first two rounds.


TE may be coming into play as two real studs there at #18.

To me thats easy based on who you mentioned. I'd take Carpenter every time over Watson depending on how his injury is healing. Big Gabe was just invisible in too many games for Michigan. Carpenter can blitz, support the run and is decent in coverage.

If Carpenter hasn't healed up, I'd still pass on Watson though. I think I'd hope to trade down a few spots if that happened.

By the way, I'm on the Schlegel bandwagon in the fifth if he's there. He is extremely underrated in that LB corp from OSU.
 

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HomeOfLegends said:
The only problem I have with your philosophy is that being forced into a pick at #18 is the worst thing we could do. Once again, the best way to approach a draft is to let things come to you, take the BAP and move on. We can't force a pick at #18 because the guy migh tnot get back around to us in the 2nd. That's just crazy.


Could not agree MORE. In fact in recent poll I advocated TRADE DOWN. Just stating that most all 3-4 pieces gone by our pick in 2nd if we are not proactive with #18 in some capacity. All this Lawson/Carpenter LB talk can be flushed now. DLine always rise in draft and will be a hot commodity at Draft round 1. You can book that.

In fact I posted that BPA will likely be TE in these scenario's......:p:
 

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Dayton_Cowboy said:
To me thats easy based on who you mentioned. I'd take Carpenter every time over Watson depending on how his injury is healing. Big Gabe was just invisible in too many games for Michigan. Carpenter can blitz, support the run and is decent in coverage.

If Carpenter hasn't healed up, I'd still pass on Watson though. I think I'd hope to trade down a few spots if that happened.

By the way, I'm on the Schlegel bandwagon in the fifth if he's there. He is extremely underrated in that LB corp from OSU.


I agree on Schlegel. Solid ILB that may be best value LB from Big Ten. Some serious overhype's there.
 

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junk said:
So did Gary Gibbs.

Granted, there are going to be a potential run of 3-4 players taken at the end of 1, top of 2. Dallas, SD, NE, Pitt, SF, Cleveland.

However, the statement above was incorrect.


reading comprehension is not a strong suit of yours.


shift the draft attention of 4-5 more teams to select players that might fit full-time or at least part-time into 3-4 defensive scheme... NEW ORLEANS, ST. LOUIS, NY JETS could be just three teams that look to draft or sign a nose tackle, more versatile OLB’s and find a bigger, tougher ILB

Saints had some 3-4 looks last 2 seasons, have personell to play 3-4 and Gibbs has a 3-4 background. Its no stretch to see Saints moving to 3-4 some over time as addressed in article.....
 

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Nors said:
reading comprehension is not a strong suit of yours.


shift the draft attention of 4-5 more teams to select players that might fit full-time or at least part-time into 3-4 defensive scheme... NEW ORLEANS, ST. LOUIS, NY JETS could be just three teams that look to draft or sign a nose tackle, more versatile OLB’s and find a bigger, tougher ILB

Saints had some 3-4 looks last 2 seasons, have personell to play 3-4 and Gibbs has a 3-4 background. Its no stretch to see Saints moving to 3-4 some over time as addressed in article.....

I'd say its better than yours. The Saints have said they are playing 4-3. Gibbs has a 4-3 background as well.

I'm not too concerned about them being a big player for "3-4 players".
 

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Hostile said:
Aren't you glad you didn't ask him the difference between a Draw and a Delay?


After that extremely informative breakdown of the Triplets and the HOF, I don't know if I can handle any more of Nors' in depth and thoughtful analysis on football.

I'm sure it'd be very useful....like all his information that he can cut and paste from somewhere....or make up with no basis in reality.
 
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