Draft Musings - March 29

[Kaiser]

He didn't have a choice. He was traded from the Texans, not a free agent.

So who would you have cut to make room for his salary under the salary cap?

 

[RS12]

 

[MonsterD]

Really hope the Chargers take Buckner or Jack, we get the guy we wanted all along.

 

[SilverStarCowboy]

it will be the same ones who trade to the 6th spot to draft the next Deion Sanders...... or do you really believe that only first round QBs bust?

There is Goff who likely starts year one as a rookie as the anointed bus driver, then Paxton Lynch with the greatest upside who might be (hold the anointing oil) worth a top 20, of course Carson Wentz who Pre-Draft has climbed up the boards from the 20th pick to the #2 Overall.


Is there really a Franchise QB worth the 4th pick in the 2016 Draft?

 

[vicjagger]

I wonder what we could get for the number four pick to move into the middle of the round?

Per the "chart", we could expect to add a 2nd, 3rd and either a 4th or 5th to trade back to the 14/15 range.

 

[morasp]

Per the "chart", we could expect to add a 2nd, 3rd and either a 4th or 5th to trade back to the 14/15 range.

Wow, that might be something to think about.

 

[Stash]

So who would you have cut to make room for his salary under the salary cap?

Nobody. The team had the room. Fitzpatrick's salary for 2015 was $3.25 million. Cassel's salary was $2 million with playing time incentives for up to $2 million more so there was little difference in cost. The Jets ended up with a true bargain and won 10 games as a result when Fitzpatrick had a career year for them.

http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/new-york-jets/ryan-fitzpatrick/

 

[Alexander]

Per the "chart", we could expect to add a 2nd, 3rd and either a 4th or 5th to trade back to the 14/15 range.

Not many teams that are likely to want to move up have that kind of draft collateral though.

The Rams, for example, have two 2nds, but no 5th. The Eagles have no 2nd, two 3rds and two 5ths. The 49ers have the most ammunition. Their top three picks, plus two 4ths and three 5ths.

I know I do not move down for a future pick in 2017 unless it is a 1st plus enough to make it worth my while in this draft, which is a second and other picks at least.

 

[Kaiser]

Nobody. The team had the room. Fitzpatrick's salary for 2015 was $3.25 million. Cassel's salary was $2 million with playing time incentives for up to $2 million more so there was little difference in cost. The Jets ended up with a true bargain and won 10 games as a result when Fitzpatrick had a career year for them.

http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/new-york-jets/ryan-fitzpatrick/

That's completely false, they had to restructure Witten to make cap room for Cassel's 1.75MM. And his incentives were unlikely to be earned and would count against the next year's cap even if he hit them.

So answer the question, you have to cut players worth 1.5MM to get Fitzpatrick over Weeden knowing the odds are that the backup QB doesn't see extensive playing time. Who do you not sign because you spent the money on Fitzpatrick? Darren McFadden? Rolando McClain?

 

[Stash]

That's completely false, they had to restructure Witten to make cap room for Cassel's 1.75MM. And his incentives were unlikely to be earned and would count against the next year's cap even if he hit them.

So answer the question, you have to cut players worth 1.5MM to get Fitzpatrick over Weeden knowing the odds are that the backup QB doesn't see extensive playing time. Who do you not sign because you spent the money on Fitzpatrick? Darren McFadden? Rolando McClain?

And yet the Cowboys rolled over $3.5 million in cap room this year.

It's funny that when they were paying that amount of money $3.25 million to Orton - who played one game in his entire tenure and lost - nobody said boo. But now the thought of paying another backup quarterback 'just can't be done'?

 

[Kaiser]

And yet the Cowboys rolled over $3.5 million in cap room this year.

It's funny that when they were paying that amount of money $3.25 million to Orton - who played one game in his entire tenure and lost - nobody said boo. But now the thought of paying another backup quarterback 'just can't be done'?

Still ducking the question several pages into this.

They are required to carry cap room for likely to be earned incentives and carry over what isn't earned. But I'm sure you knew that.

Kyle Orton isn't the question, Weeden and Fitzpatrick is. Your superuberduper hindsight tells us you knew Weeden would tank and Fitzpatrick would have a career year (your words).

Now explain how that is paid for in the real world.

 

[RS12]

Your superuberduper hindsight tells us you knew Weeden would tank and Fitzpatrick would have a career year (your words).

Lots of us knew Weeden couldnt play dead.

 

[Stash]

Still ducking the question several pages into this.

They are required to carry cap room for likely to be earned incentives and carry over what isn't earned. But I'm sure you knew that.

Kyle Orton isn't the question, Weeden and Fitzpatrick is. Your superuberduper hindsight tells us you knew Weeden would tank and Fitzpatrick would have a career year (your words).

Now explain how that is paid for in the real world.

The same way that every other move this team needs to make gets done. If they needed to, they could have or woukd have restructured a contract. You want to try to give them an excuse for a missed opportunity based on money issues that simply weren't there.

 

[Kaiser]

based on money issues that simply weren't there.

Wrong again. Here is the money issue -

http://espn.go.com/blog/nflnation/post/_/id/180662/cowboys-restructure-jason-wittens-contract


IRVING, Texas – In order to alleviate a possible salary-cap crunch following the trade for backup quarterback Matt Cassel, the Dallas Cowboys restructured the contract of tight end Jason Witten.

The move frees up $2.4 million in cap space in 2015.

After completing the trade, the Cowboys were barely under the cap because the figures included the $5.78 million due to Greg Hardy for 10 game roster bonuses once his suspension ends. Cassel will count $1.76 million against the cap this year, but has $2.15 million in not-likely-to-be-earned incentives based on playing time and playoffs.

 

[Stash]

Wrong again. Here is the money issue -

http://espn.go.com/blog/nflnation/post/_/id/180662/cowboys-restructure-jason-wittens-contract


IRVING, Texas – In order to alleviate a possible salary-cap crunch following the trade for backup quarterback Matt Cassel, the Dallas Cowboys restructured the contract of tight end Jason Witten.

The move frees up $2.4 million in cap space in 2015.

After completing the trade, the Cowboys were barely under the cap because the figures included the $5.78 million due to Greg Hardy for 10 game roster bonuses once his suspension ends. Cassel will count $1.76 million against the cap this year, but has $2.15 million in not-likely-to-be-earned incentives based on playing time and playoffs.

So your point is that they could have and did do it for Cassel, but there was no way that they could have earlier for Fitzpatrick?

Yeah, some point there...

 

[Kaiser]

You want to try to give them an excuse for a missed opportunity

So a "missed opportunity" is to use hindsight to retroactively look back at a backup player who failed, then find one other backup in the entire league that had a career year, who you can't make work under the salary cap.

That doesn't make me a management apologist, it just means you are stretching the limits to criticize. It was a "missed opportunity" that we didn't draft Tom Brady in the 4th and then trade Romo for a future 1st, that we use to draft Adrian Peterson....

There is no limit to the number of "missed opportunities" if you stretch things far enough.

 

[Kaiser]

So your point is that they could have and did do it for Cassel, but there was no way that they could have earlier for Fitzpatrick?

Yeah, some point there...

Pay attention, Cassel cost 1.75MM, Fitz cost 3.25 MM. The difference is what you need to account for and keep ducking.

 

[visionary]

You assume Romo will play every game in 2016.
I do not.
You assume Romo will be injury-free and play at a high level in 2016.
I do not.
You assume Romo will no longer have any physical limitations or aliments which causes errors on the playing field (see the Carolina game on Thanksgiving last year).
I do not.

Brees, Manning, and Brady all have multiple playoff wins and Super Bowl victories.
Romo does not.
Those teams had proven playoff and Super Bowl success with their current QB and thus they could afford to draft 2nd round QB's.

2 playoff victories in 10 years for Romo does not elevate him to the level of those other QB's -- injecting those other QB's into to the debate is irrelevant.

By the way, Eli Manning was drafted no. 1. overall and sat on the bench, while Kurt Warner started for the NY Giants in 2004.
And the 2004 Kurt Warner was a more proven success that the current Tony Romo.
So yes, you can spend a high pick on a QB and have him sit on the bench.

Game set and match

Though you have to factor in that you are addressing Super_Kazuya who only understands 'jerry-speak'

 

[Stash]

So a "missed opportunity" is to use hindsight to retroactively look back at a backup player who failed, then find one other backup in the entire league that had a career year, who you can't make work under the salary cap.

That doesn't make me a management apologist, it just means you are stretching the limits to criticize. It was a "missed opportunity" that we didn't draft Tom Brady in the 4th and then trade Romo for a future 1st, that we use to draft Adrian Peterson....

There is no limit to the number of "missed opportunities" if you stretch things far enough.

Call it whatever you'd like. The fact is that the players that the Cowboys have chosen at quarterback have been failures. Bad choices. My response was yo the question asked of who else the Cowboys could have goon, as if there were no other alternatives to the choices they made. And that is simply not true.

The fact is that the Cowboys have repeatedly made atrocious decisions at quarterback when in fact there were better alternatives available.

 

[Stash]

Pay attention, Cassel cost 1.75MM, Fitz cost 3.25 MM. The difference is what you need to account for and keep ducking.

And you pay attention. The Cowboys had the avenues to get that money, like in the case with Witten which you mentioned. Or were you under the mistaken impression that that one move for that one amount was the only card they had to play?