Draft thoughts 3-31

[Killerinstinct]

LB and G are must haves and should be taken early. Preferably the first two picks unless a James or Vea drops.

I am really tired of WR talk. If we waste a premium pick on a WR we deserve to remain a middling team.

I would really enjoy seeing the Safety spots addressed with more than late round band aids.

DT and change of pace RB are the only other 2 positions I believe need immediate attention.

We only need 6 players and we have 10 picks.

I believe LB and G can be filled with late 1st/early 2nd picks so a trade down followed by a trade up could have us ending up with 2 3rd round picks and 1 4th instead of 2 4th's and one 3rd.

Those two 3rd rd picks and 1 4th could be used to address the safety spots and a legit DT prospect.

Then all that is needed is a Change of pace back and there are several that should be available late in the draft.

The rest of the picks can be used to move up and get "our guys".

 

[xwalker]

LB and G are must haves and should be taken early. Preferably the first two picks unless a James or Vea drops.

I am really tired of WR talk. If we waste a premium pick on a WR we deserve to remain a middling team.

I would really enjoy seeing the Safety spots addressed with more than late round band aids.

DT and change of pace RB are the only other 2 positions I believe need immediate attention.

We only need 6 players and we have 10 picks.

I believe LB and G can be filled with late 1st/early 2nd picks so a trade down followed by a trade up could have us ending up with 2 3rd round picks and 1 4th instead of 2 4th's and one 3rd.

Those two 3rd rd picks and 1 4th could be used to address the safety spots and a legit DT prospect.

Then all that is needed is a Change of pace back and there are several that should be available late in the draft.

The rest of the picks can be used to move up and get "our guys".

You are doing 2 things are not good building goals.

1: Need based drafting.

2: OGs and 4-3 LBs shouldn't be the goal in the 1st round. The premium positions are:
QB
Pass Rusher (Includes some DTs)
LT
WR
CB

Obviously BPA overrides position value but for similar tier talent the goal is to draft the premium positions in the 1st.

If a team is 1 OG from a Super Bowl, they can find one in free agency, trade, etc.. If they are a LT away they're probably out of luck unless they draft one.

 

[QuincyCarterEra]

I'll post my thoughts as well.

As most know we like to attack certain positions with a bunch of resources, meaning we typically sign multiple players at a position of need.

Our positions of need are DT, depth Oline, field stretching TE, COP back, LB, and the safety positions.

This draft is strong at interior Oline, RB, QB, DT, and LB. It has depth at WR and TE.

We have attacked the WR and Oline in free agency thus far. I think we can fix the LB, DT, interior Oline, and depth RB positions for the foreseable future. The RB/RBs we draft must contribute at special teams.

We will have to wait until next season to take care of the safety and edge rusher depth.

 

[Killerinstinct]

You are doing 2 things are not good building goals.

1: Need based drafting.

2: OGs and 4-3 LBs shouldn't be the goal in the 1st round. The premium positions are:
QB
Pass Rusher (Includes some DTs)
LT
WR
CB

Obviously BPA overrides position value but for similar tier talent the goal is to draft the premium positions in the 1st.

If a team is 1 OG from a Super Bowl, they can find one in free agency, trade, etc.. If they are a LT away they're probably out of luck unless they draft one.

Derp. OG's and 4-3 LB's shouldn't be drafted in the first round.

Yeah, only 2nd string QB which is what we would be getting at our pick, Pass rusher Taco 2.0, 2nd string LT, which is what we would be getting, WR when we already have 1 too many and CB even though we drafted 4 last year and just released a starting caliber CB should be drafted in the first.

I guess no one will be drafting Roquan Smith, Edmunds, Nelson, Wynn, Hernandez, Vander Esch, or Evans in the first.

You are always spouting off like you know something but you don't.

I have posted a way to end up with 4 starters, a rotational DT that would get plenty of playing time and a change of pace back that would add an extra dimension to our offense in one draft.

You can post your own mock where you draft a CB in the 1st and WR in the second, and backup LT in the 3rd because that is the way you believe it should be done but you just sound silly. As usual.

 

[ksg811]

You are doing 2 things are not good building goals.

1: Need based drafting.

2: OGs and 4-3 LBs shouldn't be the goal in the 1st round. The premium positions are:
QB
Pass Rusher (Includes some DTs)
LT
WR
CB

Obviously BPA overrides position value but for similar tier talent the goal is to draft the premium positions in the 1st.

If a team is 1 OG from a Super Bowl, they can find one in free agency, trade, etc.. If they are a LT away they're probably out of luck unless they draft one.

Wholeheartedly agree. Using the first round to simply fill a need is unwise, unless it’s the only thing keeping you from a championship. Premium picks should be used on premium players. Unless it’s an all-pro caliber player, premium picks should be used on the 5 premium positions, not a 2 down player just because we need one.

 

[Killerinstinct]

I'll post my thoughts as well.

As most know we like to attack certain positions with a bunch of resources, meaning we typically sign multiple players at a position of need.

Our positions of need are DT, depth Oline, field stretching TE, COP back, LB, and the safety positions.

This draft is strong at interior Oline, RB, QB, DT, and LB. It has depth at WR and TE.

We have attacked the WR and Oline in free agency thus far. I think we can fix the LB, DT, interior Oline, and depth RB positions for the foreseable future. The RB/RBs we draft must contribute at special teams.

We will have to wait until next season to take care of the safety and edge rusher depth.

I think we have adequate depth on the O-line. What we don't have is a starting caliber LG.
I fear you may be right and the F.O. chooses not to address the safety position. If that happens then we will see the same results from the position that we have for years. Lackluster play and a missed opportunity.

 

[Killerinstinct]

Wholeheartedly agree. Using the first round to simply fill a need is unwise, unless it’s the only thing keeping you from a championship. Premium picks should be used on premium players. Unless it’s an all-pro caliber player, premium picks should be used on the 5 premium positions, not a 2 down player just because we need one.

Actually it was using the 1st and 2nd rounds to acquire two starting players at positions of need and maneuvering to where they became value picks simultaneously. Premium picks (Which I assume you mean 1st through 3rd round picks) should not be limited to the positions you have identified as premium positions. I never said draft a 2 down player just because you need one but you are advocating taking players that would be zero down players If you are going to draft LT, CB or another pass rusher in the 1st.

 

[Jake0]

Since when has WR been a premium pick?

How many super bowls do the best WRs that demand the most money have? Blue Chip WRs are not a necessity, just nice to have.

 

[Sydla]

You are doing 2 things are not good building goals.

1: Need based drafting.

2: OGs and 4-3 LBs shouldn't be the goal in the 1st round. The premium positions are:
QB
Pass Rusher (Includes some DTs)
LT
WR
CB

Obviously BPA overrides position value but for similar tier talent the goal is to draft the premium positions in the 1st.

If a team is 1 OG from a Super Bowl, they can find one in free agency, trade, etc.. If they are a LT away they're probably out of luck unless they draft one.

Agree on OG but I think you undervalue LB and overvalue WR, especially picking 19th.

 

[xwalker]

Derp. OG's and 4-3 LB's shouldn't be drafted in the first round.

Yeah, only 2nd string QB which is what we would be getting at our pick, Pass rusher Taco 2.0, 2nd string LT, which is what we would be getting, WR when we already have 1 too many and CB even though we drafted 4 last year and just released a starting caliber CB should be drafted in the first.

I guess no one will be drafting Roquan Smith, Edmunds, Nelson, Wynn, Hernandez, Vander Esch, or Evans in the first.

You are always spouting off like you know something but you don't.

I have posted a way to end up with 4 starters, a rotational DT that would get plenty of playing time and a change of pace back that would add an extra dimension to our offense in one draft.

You can post your own mock where you draft a CB in the 1st and WR in the second, and backup LT in the 3rd because that is the way you believe it should be done but you just sound silly. As usual.

I should have know this my comments would be way too complicated for you.

Most people will see that I said BPA overrides position value.

 

[bayeslife]

You are doing 2 things are not good building goals.

1: Need based drafting.

2: OGs and 4-3 LBs shouldn't be the goal in the 1st round. The premium positions are:
QB
Pass Rusher (Includes some DTs)
LT
WR
CB

Obviously BPA overrides position value but for similar tier talent the goal is to draft the premium positions in the 1st.

If a team is 1 OG from a Super Bowl, they can find one in free agency, trade, etc.. If they are a LT away they're probably out of luck unless they draft one.

Why do you think WR is high up on that list? I'm actually all in on drafting Ridley but I don't know that I would rank the positions in that way.

 

[xwalker]

Since when has WR been a premium pick?

How many super bowls do the best WRs that demand the most money have? Blue Chip WRs are not a necessity, just nice to have.

How many Super Bowl wins for Jerry Rice and Mike Irvin?

Just because a great player like Calvin Johnson didn't, it's not an indicator for lack of importance.

Dan Marino didn't win a Super Bowl. Does that make QB unimportant?

 

[ksg811]

Actually it was using the 1st and 2nd rounds to acquire two starting players at positions of need and maneuvering to where they became value picks simultaneously. Premium picks (Which I assume you mean 1st through 3rd round picks) should not be limited to the positions you have identified as premium positions. I never said draft a 2 down player just because you need one but you are advocating taking players that would be zero down players If you are going to draft LT, CB or another pass rusher in the 1st.

Premium picks top 50ish or so picks to me. Pass rushers are never zero down players. You can never have enough pass rushers. Fresh rotations and clever packages means there’s always a need for pass rush. Same goes for CB. 3 WRs is becoming the standard, not a subpackage. I’m confident in Chido on the outside and Lewis in the slot, but nowhere else.

In our case, I agree with LT because I think even 14 games of Tyron to keep his back fresh for postseason if needed is still a top 3 tackle in the game; so there is at least some credence of need analysis in my draft strategy.

Take a look at the draft histories of the teams that have sustained success. Their top picks have been heavy on those premium positions.

 

[xwalker]

Why do you think WR is high up on that list? I'm actually all in on drafting Ridley but I don't know that I would rank the positions in that way.

1: Those have long been considered the premium positions.

2: Average Salary. The best and highest paid 4-3 LB averages 12M. Many WRs average more.

 

[Jake0]

How many Super Bowl wins for Jerry Rice and Mike Irvin?

Just because a great player like Calvin Johnson didn't, it's not an indicator for lack of importance.

Dan Marino didn't win a Super Bowl. Does that make QB unimportant?

Pre-salary cap era. Rice and Irvin played on the greatest teams of all time with HOF QBs. Megatron, Randy Moss, TO are all HOFers but not going to carry a team with mediocre talent at other "Premium" positions. When one receiver is taking up 20% of your salary cap, it's very likely your team is not going to be championship caliber. QB alone won't do it but no question that it's a premium position. The single most important position pretty much every person would agree. Takes an entire defensive unit to outdo a HOF caliber QB.

I'm sorry, there is one position that is more important than QB and doesn't count toward the salary cap at all. Dallas doesn't seem to want to address it though for some reason when it costs no draft/cap resources. Head coach.

 

[DFWJC]

Pretty straight forward

You take the top player on of your board
If the top player is not a player of need, you could look to trade back.
If you have several available at the top of your board that are bunched together (evaluated about the same) then of course take the one you need the most.

But do not reach for need...especially in the early rounds.

 

[Killerinstinct]

Premium picks top 50ish or so picks to me. Pass rushers are never zero down players. You can never have enough pass rushers. Fresh rotations and clever packages means there’s always a need for pass rush. Same goes for CB. 3 WRs is becoming the standard, not a subpackage. I’m confident in Chido on the outside and Lewis in the slot, but nowhere else.

In our case, I agree with LT because I think even 14 games of Tyron to keep his back fresh for postseason if needed is still a top 3 tackle in the game; so there is at least some credence of need analysis in my draft strategy.

Take a look at the draft histories of the teams that have sustained success. Their top picks have been heavy on those premium positions.

Pass rushers can be zero down players when you already have them. I happen to agree that one more pass rusher could be used but with Tapper and possibly even Gregory getting a shot this year as well as Taco's continued development, it is low on my list of priorities.

If we had felt we needed CB help then letting Scandrick go was a really stupid move. Byron is going to get a shot at CB most likely and it is a make or break year so I suspect he will get plenty of playing time unless he really stinks up the place. If he does, then Woods and Brown are there.

Sure, when it makes sense to take a premium position player it should be done but I would be curious which team with "sustained success" ignores their roster when drafting and again, I am advocating maneuvering to take players at positions of need where they are value picks. Not just willy nilly taking a Guard and Linebacker with no weighing of their value on the board.

If I were to focus only on premium positions with the two top 50 picks then we are likely looking at 1st and 2nd rd picks along the lines of

1. Davenport - Highest rated player at a premium position ranked after 19
and
2. Hercules Mata'afa Edge - Highest rated player at a premium position ranked after 50

If we had a ridgid policy of only drafting BPA at a premium position these could be our two top picks and they could sit next to each other on the bench watching the game. I don't think that is wise roster building especially when the best case scenario is they both work out and are worthy of second contracts and Taco too and Dlaw already on his. Maybe 100 mil per year at the DE position would be adequate in that situation.

All things must be considered when building a roster.

 

[Nightman]

Pre-salary cap era. Rice and Irvin played on the greatest teams of all time with HOF QBs. Megatron, Randy Moss, TO are all HOFers but not going to carry a team with mediocre talent at other "Premium" positions. When one receiver is taking up 20% of your salary cap, it's very likely your team is not going to be championship caliber. QB alone won't do it but no question that it's a premium position. The single most important position pretty much every person would agree. Takes an entire defensive unit to outdo a HOF caliber QB.

I'm sorry, there is one position that is more important than QB and doesn't count toward the salary cap at all. Dallas doesn't seem to want to address it though for some reason when it costs no draft/cap resources. Head coach.

DEN, SEA, NE, ATL, PHI all spent a lot of resources on WRs ....both draft picks and FAs

 

[Jake0]

DEN, SEA, NE, ATL, PHI all spent a lot of resources on WRs ....both draft picks and FAs

NE finally did it with Cooks because Brady is just about done. They never burned a huge chunk of resources on a receiver any other time. Randy Moss was a buy low candidate when he was out loafing in Oakland.

Den? On who? Demaryius? He was picked right before Dez was and he's not even close to what Megatron/Moss etc are. He's making 8.5 mil in 2018, that's not close to 20% of a team's cap.

Seattle? huh?

Atl yes Julio Jones is a generational HOF talent. He is the one outlier here. I will give him credit because ATL should have won that SB vs NE.

Phi? Alshon is similar to Demaryius level, Agholor was a 1st round pick and he helped a little. Nelson Agholor is not carrying a team to a championship.

 

[Killerinstinct]

NE finally did it with Cooks because Brady is just about done. They never burned a huge chunk of resources on a receiver any other time. Randy Moss was a buy low candidate when he was out loafing in Oakland.

Den? On who? Demaryius? He was picked right before Dez was and he's not even close to what Megatron/Moss etc are. He's making 8.5 mil in 2018, that's not close to 20% of a team's cap.

Seattle? huh?

Atl yes Julio Jones is a generational HOF talent. He is the one outlier here. I will give him credit because ATL should have won that SB vs NE.

Phi? Alshon is similar to Demaryius level, Agholor was a 1st round pick and he helped a little. Nelson Agholor is not carrying a team to a championship.

Agreed, NE turns UDFA's into stars. Seattle has a bunch of mid level WR's. Philly grabbed an affordable F.A.

Looking back at 1st rd wide receivers shows just what a crap shoot it is.

Stick with Dez, see how the new additions do. Continue to develop Noah and Switzer. Twill and Bease while not superstars aren't exactly big nothings either.