Draft thoughts before next week

[Sydla]

You are showing bias right now, denying Zeke’s impact when he was at the top of the runningback position.


Imagine thinking O’cyrus Torrence or Steve Avila being smarter picks than Bijan Robinson LOL

And once again, Zeke at #4 overall is way different than taking a back at the end of the first round.

What impact?

He was a very good TB for a few years. But what did that get us on the field?

Nothing beyond what we got from a third round pick in 2014. It’s not bias. It’s reality. Teams build great run games without plowing millions of dollars and/or first round picks into a position that continually proves doesn’t alter the direction of a franchise.

 

[Sydla]

I’ll trade my entire draft and take Bijan before I draft Sanders Lolol…sanders is legit the worst possible scenario at 26

I mean I don’t think I said Is take Sanders at 26.

 

[JBS]

I mean I don’t think I said Is take Sanders at 26.

Oh yeah. Where exactly do you think you will get him then?

 

[Aven8]

That is absolutely right. He did.

And Witt before him.

 

[WillieBeamen]

What impact?

He was a very good TB for a few years. But what did that get us on the field?

Nothing beyond what we got from a third round pick in 2014. It’s not bias. It’s reality. Teams build great run games without plowing millions of dollars and/or first round picks into a position that continually proves doesn’t alter the direction of a franchise.

What impact? Lol
Let me get this straight. Do the Cowboys win the East and go 13-3 if Zeke wasnt on this team?

“We didnt win the SB so picking him was a mistake”

 

[gtb1943]

DT, OG, TE are all areas that must be upgraded.

Sadly there are no guards that really warrant #26 and the same with DT. No WRs in this draft make me willing to use a high pick on.
There are several TE's that will be in that area more than likely and I like Mayer - BUT I would be happy with a trade down and then take Mayer if he fell; or one of our other needs if one of the guys that rate a late 1st early 2nd pick are there.

 

[Sydla]

Oh yeah. Where exactly do you think you will get him then?

I said I wouldn't take him at 26 but would if he slipped to 58 (which granted, is probably unlikely).

 

[Sydla]

What impact? Lol
Let me get this straight. Do the Cowboys win the East and go 13-3 if Zeke wasnt on this team?

“We didnt win the SB so picking him was a mistake”

It's not even about winning the SB. We didn't even get any further in terms of playoff wins compared to the 2014 team that had a 3rd round pick as their TB.

Elliott was a very nice running back for a number of years. No one denies that. But at the end of the day, we used a premium pick on a position that largely doesn't move the needle as much as other positions. Again, for all his greatness, the Cowboys didn't take that next step beyond where they had been right before he was picked. If you want to call him a successful pick based on his individual achievements over that time period, that's fine and I won't disagree.

But in terms of the ultimate success of the franchise, he wasn't a game changer, he didn't alter the direction of the franchise. The team was basically the same team - miss the playoffs here, make the playoffs there, get bounced early, repeat................ I look around the league and see multiple teams use their prime assets to make the overall team better and then backfill the TB position. That's the model I want to follow. Build the OL, then worry about the TB later.

As for your question, can you say with certainty that if the Cowboys hadn't taken Elliott but instead had taken Jordan Howard later in the draft, a guy who ran for 1300 yards as a rookie, the team still wouldn't have been successful?

 

[JBS]

I said I wouldn't take him at 26 but would if he slipped to 58 (which granted, is probably unlikely).

Fair enough. You did. I legit stopped reading after sanders Lolol.

 

[WillieBeamen]

It's not even about winning the SB. We didn't even get any further in terms of playoff wins compared to the 2014 team that had a 3rd round pick as their TB.

Elliott was a very nice running back for a number of years. No one denies that. But at the end of the day, we used a premium pick on a position that largely doesn't move the needle as much as other positions. Again, for all his greatness, the Cowboys didn't take that next step beyond where they had been right before he was picked. If you want to call him a successful pick based on his individual achievements over that time period, that's fine and I won't disagree.

But in terms of the ultimate success of the franchise, he wasn't a game changer, he didn't alter the direction of the franchise. The team was basically the same team - miss the playoffs here, make the playoffs there, get bounced early, repeat................ I look around the league and see multiple teams use their prime assets to make the overall team better and then backfill the TB position. That's the model I want to follow. Build the OL, then worry about the TB later.

As for your question, can you say with certainty that if the Cowboys hadn't taken Elliott but instead had taken Jordan Howard later in the draft, a guy who ran for 1300 yards as a rookie, the team still wouldn't have been successful?

The only position that makes the type of impact you are talking about is a QB. Players like Bosa, Ramsey, Ronnie Stanley, and Deforest Buckner (players at premier positions) didnt alter the direction of their franchise’s either.

We tried replacing one All-Pro (Murray) with a mid-round back in Joseph Randle and the offense was terrible. Thats with largely the same dominant OL. Also, the Zeke pick was for Romo (a much better QB than Dak). In fact, most would argue that had we gone back to Romo that same year, we wouldve beaten that weak Packers team and wouldve made it to the Championship game for the first time in 20 years.

 

[CATCH17]

 

[gtb1943]

It's not even about winning the SB. We didn't even get any further in terms of playoff wins compared to the 2014 team that had a 3rd round pick as their TB.

Elliott was a very nice running back for a number of years. No one denies that. But at the end of the day, we used a premium pick on a position that largely doesn't move the needle as much as other positions. Again, for all his greatness, the Cowboys didn't take that next step beyond where they had been right before he was picked. If you want to call him a successful pick based on his individual achievements over that time period, that's fine and I won't disagree.

But in terms of the ultimate success of the franchise, he wasn't a game changer, he didn't alter the direction of the franchise. The team was basically the same team - miss the playoffs here, make the playoffs there, get bounced early, repeat................ I look around the league and see multiple teams use their prime assets to make the overall team better and then backfill the TB position. That's the model I want to follow. Build the OL, then worry about the TB later.

As for your question, can you say with certainty that if the Cowboys hadn't taken Elliott but instead had taken Jordan Howard later in the draft, a guy who ran for 1300 yards as a rookie, the team still wouldn't have been successful?

Zeke was much better than very nice so clearly you are blind either about him or RB in general.
Tell me how many teams win a SB without a balanced attack?

 

[gtb1943]

Some NFL teams are run by morons, too. Not that it means this is invalid as regards judging the top RB but when 28 out of 32 say one thing and 4 out of 32 say another, which is more likely?

 

[CATCH17]

Darren McFadden, Jonathan Stewart, Reshard Mendenhall, and Felix Jones all got drafted ahead of Chris Johnson in the 1st round.

You never know.

I do know Nick Saban said Gibbs is the best he’s coached at reading and setting up blocks and we do know that he is a threat to score from anywhere on the field.

Every touch this guy gets, like Tony Pollard, could go the distance.

 

[Sydla]

The only position that makes the type of impact you are talking about is a QB. Players like Bosa, Ramsey, Ronnie Stanley, and Deforest Buckner (players at premier positions) didnt alter the direction of their franchise’s either.

We tried replacing one All-Pro (Murray) with a mid-round back in Joseph Randle and the offense was terrible. Thats with largely the same dominant OL. Also, the Zeke pick was for Romo (a much better QB than Dak). In fact, most would argue that had we gone back to Romo that same year, we wouldve beaten that weak Packers team and wouldve made it to the Championship game for the first time in 20 years.

Guys like DEs and OTs have a bigger impact than a TB.

It's not exactly a secret either as even guys that are high on Robinson as an elite talent understand that the TB position just doesn't have the value a lot of other positions have.

You'll never convince me that using a 1st round pick on a TB is a smart decision.

 

[Sydla]

Some NFL teams are run by morons, too. Not that it means this is invalid as regards judging the top RB but when 28 out of 32 say one thing and 4 out of 32 say another, which is more likely?

Maybe but it's not a guaranty. 31 out of 32 teams likely would have said we were dumb to take Frederick in the first and if he hadn't gotten a rare autoimmune disease, he'd arguably be the best C in football, or at least Top 3.

 

[ghst187]

I see both sides of it as far to use a first round pick on a skill position vs OL or DL but I just don’t think you can be that black and white when it comes to the draft. I think it depends on what talent is available regardless of position. I mean do you pass on a Barry Sanders because it’s the first round and take a Larry Allen instead? Or a Greg Ellis instead of a Randy Moss? You can’t in good faith argue that Larry Allen or Greg Ellis affected a game as much as Sanders or Moss. I get that you can find good RBs in the later rounds too but you can also find good OL in later rounds, esp OG, which is what we really need.
So anyway, I’m not bashing the philosophy really what I’m saying is that I think it’s more circumstantial and when I look at where we have roster holes vs what talent is in this draft combined with where we are picking…I have come to the conclusion that the best bang for our buck would be BJ or Gibbs if we stay pat at 26 and one is available. Hypothetically, if a guy I thought was the next Larry Allen was likely going to be available at 26 and all the RBs were about the same…I’d be pushing for the OG.
I’ve certainly been wildly supportive of fixing our DL and run defense since about the time Jay Ratliff flaked out…but I just don’t see the value in this draft. A lot want to draft fat guys…IMO just because they fit the mold of being fat and play 1T. Im just not sold on any of the DTs, outside of Carter) in this draft. They all come with big red flags and bust potential. If there was a Jonathan Allen likely to be available at 26, I might be singing a different tune.

 

[cnuball21]

What impact? Lol
Let me get this straight. Do the Cowboys win the East and go 13-3 if Zeke wasnt on this team?

“We didnt win the SB so picking him was a mistake”

If we would’ve taken Ramsey / Buckner in the 1st then Henry or another RB later…we 100% would have.

 

[WillieBeamen]

If we would’ve taken Ramsey / Buckner in the 1st then Henry or another RB later…we 100% would have.

But i can also say if we wouldve taken Zeke in the first then Xavien Howard or Chris Jones/Michael Thomas in the second we would have as well

The draft is not an exact science. The truth is you can find high-caliber players all throughout.

“jordan howard later on wouldve gave us an impact close to Zeke” like come on. Howard was a damn Jag that had 2 decent seasons while Zeke was on a trajectory similar to Emmitt during his first 4 seasons.

 

[cnuball21]

But i can also say if we wouldve taken Zeke in the first then Xavien Howard or Chris Jones/Michael Thomas in the second we would have as well

The draft is not an exact science. The truth is you can find high-caliber players all throughout.

“jordan howard later on wouldve gave us an impact close to Zeke” like come on. Howard was a damn Jag that had 2 decent seasons while Zeke was on a trajectory similar to Emmitt during his first 4 seasons.

It’s not exact science but it’s incredibly easy to make smart roster building decisions in the draft.

In the first round you draft premium positions bc they’re cheap for 5 years. You don’t draft low value positions that can be drafted later or filled in FA for cheap.

Drafted Zeke top 5 was an awful roster building decision…extending him was even worse.