DT Review: Cowboys at 49ers Preseason 2019

[Pharoah]

Covington was good? The only thing I remember about him was getting blowed off the line numerous times. Maybe I was wrong. My impression of Covington was he would be cut.

Thanks for the write up.

The 3rd/4th string DTs just weren't a threat to the 49ers OLine.

It's often the Center's choice on which OG gets the help.

The Marinelli style defense is designed to get single blocking for the 3-tech (under tackle). When that does not happen the defense falls apart.

Covington did draw the double teams when he and Hill were together but with Ross or the 3rd/4th string DTs, Hill got almost all of the double teams.

The 49ers OL and the Cowboys DL did do some amount of "scheming". More than I would expect for a preseason game. Maybe scheming is not quite the right description but more than just the bare basics.

The Cowboys DL ran a lot of stunts which I didn't expect for ps game #1.

The 49ers used a lot of run fakes then pass or fake outside run and then cut back inside than I expected. It seemed as if the Rams were already implementing some concepts similar to what the Rams did that caused the Cowboys problems. I expected teams would do that in the regular season but not in ps game #1.

Maybe the 49ers just play that way already. I didn't watch them much last season but the similarities to some concepts the Rams used are interesting. On the surface it would seem that they are opposite of the Rams because the 49ers were #1 or #2 in snaps with a FB or 2nd RB whereas the Rams were #1 in using 3 WR, 1 TE, 1 RB sets.

Thanks for the review however PFF graded Walker the highest of all DT. Wise has a nice versatility angle. Still not a bust but in that game Hill didnt do much.

 

[waldoputty]

wow, hill got doubled quite a bit.
almost as if 49ers game planned against him.
how was hill's 'technique'?

 

[waldoputty]

Thanks for the review however PFF graded Walker the highest of all DT. Wise has a nice versatility angle. Still not a bust but in that game Hill didnt do much.

x's analysis already shows that hill got the double when hill and walker were in at the same time.

 

[xwalker]

Thanks for the review however PFF graded Walker the highest of all DT. Wise has a nice versatility angle. Still not a bust but in that game Hill didnt do much.

You appear to be new here, but PFF is not highly regarded here.

Most consider their player evaluations as worthless; although some trollish type posters will try to use PFF to support their narratives.

PFF literally hires fans to "grade film" and not necessarily hardcore fans that have spent years studying football games footage.

PFF does keep some stats that are not available elsewhere and those do have value; however, their player evaluations are garbage. They once gave Doug Free a better rating than Tyron Smith.

PFF job posting and resume of a PFF "analyst".

 

[Pharoah]

Covington was good? The only thing I remember about him was getting blowed off the line numerous times. Maybe I was wrong. My impression of Covington was he would be cut.

Thanks for the write up.

The 3rd/4th string DTs just weren't a threat to the 49ers OLine.

It's often the Center's choice on which OG gets the help.

The Marinelli style defense is designed to get single blocking for the 3-tech (under tackle). When that does not happen the defense falls apart.

Covington did draw the double teams when he and Hill were together but with Ross or the 3rd/4th string DTs, Hill got almost all of the double teams.

The 49ers OL and the Cowboys DL did do some amount of "scheming". More than I would expect for a preseason game. Maybe scheming is not quite the right description but more than just the bare basics.

The Cowboys DL ran a lot of stunts which I didn't expect for ps game #1.

The 49ers used a lot of run fakes then pass or fake outside run and then cut back inside than I expected. It seemed as if the Rams were already implementing some concepts similar to what the Rams did that caused the Cowboys problems. I expected teams would do that in the regular season but not in ps game #1.

Maybe the 49ers just play that way already. I didn't watch them much last season but the similarities to some concepts the Rams used are interesting. On the surface it would seem that they are opposite of the Rams because the 49ers were #1 or #2 in snaps with a FB or 2nd RB whereas the Rams were #1 in using 3 WR, 1 TE, 1 RB sets.

Thanks for the review however PFF graded Walker the highest of all DT. Wise has a nice versatility angle. Still not a bust but in that game Hill didnt do much.

x's analysis already shows that hill got the double when hill and walker were in at the same time.

Great then he was solid. Never said he wasn't. Any #1 DT is going to see doubles. Elite guys beat doubles PFF or casual fans know that. Goal is whoever sees the one v one beat their man and make plays

 

[Pharoah]

x's analysis already shows that hill got the double when hill and walker were in at the same time.

That is true but any #1 DT get doubled. He was solid in the game and I'm on record that one game is not enough to suggest the bust label folks have given him. The object is for guys to best 1 vs 1 and the eval seems to suggest he never seen 1 vs 1 and slights the guys who made plays by beating their man when left one v one

 

[waldoputty]

That is true but any #1 DT get doubled. He was solid in the game and I'm on record that one game is not enough to suggest the bust label folks have given him. The object is for guys to best 1 vs 1 and the eval seems to suggest he never seen 1 vs 1 and slights the guys who made plays by beating their man when left one v one

well, x's analysis showed that hill had 1 on 1 when he played with covington.

it is just not an apple-to-apple comparison for hill and walker when they played together since 1 was doubled and the other is not.

it is way too early for anyone to say anything

 

[Pharoah]

well, x's analysis showed that hill had 1 on 1 when he played with covington.

it is just not an apple-to-apple comparison for hill and walker when they played together since 1 was doubled and the other is not.

it is way too early for anyone to say anything

I dont believe it's a comparison with Hill and Walker. It was the DT group. Hill is 2nd round and Walker undrafted technically the comparison/expectations should not be apple to apple

 

[waldoputty]

I dont believe it's a comparison with Hill and Walker. It was the DT group. Hill is 2nd round and Walker undrafted technically the comparison/expectations should not be apple to apple

some were making that comparison.
i would like to see how hill performs when he is lined up with another dt that forces double teams.

 

[xwalker]

That is true but any #1 DT get doubled. He was solid in the game and I'm on record that one game is not enough to suggest the bust label folks have given him. The object is for guys to best 1 vs 1 and the eval seems to suggest he never seen 1 vs 1 and slights the guys who made plays by beating their man when left one v one

I'm not trying to dog on Ricky Walker. Just on the over-hyping of him considering he had about 3 plays that would be considered impressive.

Obviously the expectations are different for a 2nd round pick than a UDFA; however, fans/media make that difference into a narrative where the 2nd round pick that many of them didn't like in the first place is terrible if he does not look dominant in a preseason game; however, a UDFA is fantastic if he makes a couple of good plays.

The issue with double-teams is that there is a 3-tech DT and a 1-tech DT.
- The 1-tech DT is expected to draw the vast majority of the double team blocks.

Walker showed great hustle and good quickness.
- It's not his fault that they played him at 1-tech where he can't force double teams.
- He projects better to 3-tech.
- Once the 1-tech does get single blocking it's a bigger advantage than a 3-tech getting single blocking.

 

[Pharoah]

Outside of the game. there has not been much positive/hype around Mr. Hill even at camp. If he was beasting the media and staff would be hyping it up. Having your top pick do well is good for business. i think the bad rep started from him not making It through day 1 of camp with the "cramping". I dont believe it is fair but thats what go along with being a top pick but the bust talk is totally not called for at this point.

 

[waldoputty]

Outside of the game. there has not been much positive/hype around Mr. Hill even at camp. If he was beasting the media and staff would be hyping it up. Having your top pick do well is good for business. i think the bad rep started from him not making ot through day 1 of camp with the "cramping"

hill is a high sparq low performance player in college - b quadrant in the sparq chart.
that means the team thinks it can get him to perform better.
he has low reps and well known to lack technique
so cramping would be completely reasonable.
that takes time to learn, not just 3 weeks in camp.
it also takes time to build up strength which he is not great in.
cwilliams took one full off-season and he looks much better this year.

we are looking for a bargain path to a good player who can apply dl pressure at the end of the 2nd round for 3tech dt.

 

[CowboyRoy]

Cowboys at 49ers Preseason Game 1

I'll start with the summary and then go into the details.

Summary:

• Hill was better than most fan/media claims.
• Woods same as last season.
• Covington was good overall.
• #67 & #68 could not draw double teams at 1-tech.
• #64 quick but small at DT. Also played DE.

Trysten Hill
- Hill played 3-tech DT.

Hill Paired with Multiple Other DTs:

• Hill did not play with starting 1-tech DT (Woods).
• Hill replaced Woods on a 3rd & long with Ross as the other DT.
• Hill played 10 snaps with Covington as the 1-tech DT.
• Hill played 1 snap with Hyder as the other DT on 3rd and long.
• Hill played about 16 snaps with #68 as the other DT.
• Hill played about 6 snaps with #67 as the other DT.

Primary Issue (Hill)
On almost all snaps with any DT other than Covington, Hill was doubled teamed.
- The 3-tech is intended to get single blocking in this scheme.

Overall (Hill)
- Good recognition on runs.
- Needs to refine technique against zone blocking.
- On a couple of zone run plays OLinemen caught him moving laterally and it looked ugly.
- Not much opportunity on pass rush. Primarly runs & screen passes.
- He was also the lead on some stunts (the lead ties up blockers for the stunting DL).
- Had a really good bull-rush on OG 5 yards into backfield, but quick screen pass.
- Had a really good play to come across 2 gaps to meet the RB head-on.
- He tends to stay with run a bit too long on run fakes. Needs to transition to pass rush quickly.

Woods
- Only played about 8 snaps.
- Looked about the same as last year.

Covington
- Good overall. Better than 4th DTs from last season (Ross, Reid, etc.).
- Played 1-tech but showed some pass rush ability.
- Quick to recognize run type/location and works to squeeze the gaps.
- Was consistently double teamed.
- A couple of ugly looking snaps when flowing laterally & had bad angle/leverage to resist double.
- Has similarities to Woods.

Ross
- Flashes occasionally as pass rusher but gets blown up often vs the run.
- They doubled Hill on the snap Ross & Hill were together.

#68
- Could not draw double teams when playing with Hill.
- Flashed some quickness.
- Just not big enough to consistently hold up vs the run.

#67
- Could not draw double teams when playing with Hill.

#64
- Played 3-tech DT and DE.
- Did not play with Hill.
- Quick at DT but engulfed by OLinemen on some run plays.


If anybody wants to see details about Hill, here is my play by play analysis:

So Hill was good, but he didn't make a tackle, a sack, a tip, or fumble? Everyone else said he didn't impress, but you were impressed?

 

[Pharoah]

hill is a high sparq low performance player in college - b quadrant in the sparq chart.
that means the team thinks it can get him to perform better.
he has low reps and well known to lack technique
so cramping would be completely reasonable.
that takes time to learn, not just 3 weeks in camp.
it also takes time to build up strength which he is not great in.
cwilliams took one full off-season and he looks much better this year.

we are looking for a bargain path to a good player who can apply dl pressure at the end of the 2nd round for 3tech dt.

I agree with everything you said. I believe i have stated here that Hill is a true example of a Measurables/Potential pick. Kid has all the tools but not polished and didnt play at Power 5 ball

 

[xwalker]

So Hill was good, but he didn't make a tackle, a sack, a tip, or fumble? Everyone else said he didn't impress, but you were impressed?

One of my primary points is that stats in a preseason game don't mean much.

The Giants 1st round pick (#17 overall) has zero tackles after 2 preseason games.


I never said that Hill was great in the game, just that he was better than many fans/media claimed.

 

[CowboyRoy]

One of my primary points is that stats in a preseason game don't mean much.

The Giants 1st round pick (#17 overall) has zero tackles after 2 preseason games.


I never said that Hill was great in the game, just that he was better than many fans/media claimed.

I think good players tend to stand out. The really good ones. Now certainly ONE game doesn't make a career, but if you watch someone play you can see talent or big holes in their game.

I can tell you just by watching Taco just a little bit I was convinced he would be a complete bust.

When I saw Romo I knew, Dak I knew. Some guys its obvious, others not so much. DL are probably a little harder to tell early on.

 

[Pharoah]

One of my primary points is that stats in a preseason game don't mean much.

The Giants 1st round pick (#17 overall) has zero tackles after 2 preseason games.


I never said that Hill was great in the game, just that he was better than many fans/media claimed.

Maybe Lawrence is a bust. lol over rated beneficiary of playing on the line with 2 other 1st rounders? Never know thats why takes a few years to conclude if a pick is worthy.

 

[CowboyRoy]

One of my primary points is that stats in a preseason game don't mean much.

The Giants 1st round pick (#17 overall) has zero tackles after 2 preseason games.


I never said that Hill was great in the game, just that he was better than many fans/media claimed.

So do you think the kid is going to be a good one or what?

 

[CowboyRoy]

Maybe Lawrence is a bust. lol over rated beneficiary of playing on the line with 2 other 1st rounders? Never know thats why takes a few years to conclude if a pick is worthy.

Lawrence was good. He was injured either injured or suspended his rookie year for 6 games. People forget that he came back in his 2nd season and had 8 sacks. He definitely flashed.

 

[Pharoah]

Lawrence was good. He was injured either injured or suspended his rookie year for 6 games. People forget that he came back in his 2nd season and had 8 sacks. He definitely flashed.

Not that Lawrence reffering to the NY GIANT #17 PICK kid out of clemson