Dumb Jocks?

[adbutcher]

I find it quite amusing how the forum views football players. Some of the guys that I've played with are some of the most intelligent people I've ever met and I've work(ed) with engineers from NASA, MIT, UMR, Stafford, etc.. Some became CEOs, doctors, engineers, soldiers, teachers, lawyers, police officers, and firefighters, yep, the full gambit of employment opportunities, imagine that. Conversely, obtaining a career post football is not the major accomplishment; the major accomplishment is balancing all of their studies with the demanding and grueling commitment of playing football.

It is disconcerting that so many hold these myopic and outdated views; perhaps it is a feeling of self-inadequacies that drives their perspective. He is rich, physically gifted, with chicks swooning over him but at least I am waaaaay smarter than he is.

Historically, to disparage anyone from changing any type of inequity the first step is to dehumanize the opposition, typically the group with the least amount of power. So and so is a dumb animal so, so and so does not deserve any fair treatment or respect. It is quite disgusting when you consider what has been done based on using broad-brush strokes when painting the opposition.

It really makes me wonder how do you cheer for your team, is it the equivalent of cheering for the horse in a horse race? Some of the comments on the labor unrest are not surprising because it is status quo; I know their stance and do not respect their opinion anyway. However, from others that I respect, their comments are quite revealing.

The days of the dumb jock has been over for quite a while now. If you participated in ROTC or some equivalent extracurricular activity, you know how difficult it is to fight through mental and physical fatigue to excel in class. Add in the extra physicality of playing football, it become quite remarkable that many football players have the highest GPAs in their class or score higher than the norm when taking standardized tests.

I guess if they are richer than you are, physically more gifted than you, and smarter than you, it does not leave much but hate.

 

[HoosierCowboy]

many athletes only go to college to play a sport and are not overly intelligent. many athletes are very smart and articulate, but they all are given a platform from which to display their intelligence or stupidity--many like AP or DeSean are nitwits

 

[jimmy40]

and yet they aren't smart enough to know when to shut up.

 

[DallasEast]

Admittedly, I may be somewhat guilty of some things you mention. I try tempering my comments by continually reminding myself that, for every Ryan Grant, there may be an Adrian Peterson. It's what helps prevent me from involuntarily throwing out generalizations.

Mr. Peterson is no fool. He has accomplished much already in his young life that other human beings haven't in their entire lives. Still it is very disheartening to discover that his personal perceptions of his own industry are as warped as they are.

He is frustrated and angry that NFL ownership makes huge demands of his time, energy, income and even lifelong health. These demands are so impactful upon his self-image that he misconstrues them into being something they are not. And it is equally disheartening to know that he is not alone.

If he (and others) feel that their struggle is just, so be it. I, for one, would appreciate reading and hearing of their struggle minus the taint slapped upon it. It's highly disrespectful of the victims who have suffered what he claims to share himself--regardless of whether those comparisons live in the here-and-now or who have lived a hundred years ago or had lived countless millenia ago.

I guess in short, I would like to witness him seeing himself more as Adrian Peterson--a professional athlete whose employers are attempting to strip him of what he feels is completely justifiable compensation for a life filled with infrequent privacy, physical hardship and possibly suffering medical complications down the road...

...and seeing himself less as a Jaycee Lee Dugard, whose life could be characterized on the high end of the totally inhumane injustice forced upon her, but whom's life experience sits solidly opposite a huge VOID from that of his own.

Maybe that's too much to hope for. Maybe I shouldn't even broach the subject in respect to him. But in life, it is most often the utterly fantastically spoken assumptions which are met with the most public ridicule--to which I am most honestly guilty of.

 

[peplaw06]

I find it quite amusing how the forum views football players. Some of the guys that I've played with are some of the most intelligent people I've ever met and I've work(ed) with engineers from NASA, MIT, UMR, Stafford, etc.. Some became CEOs, doctors, engineers, soldiers, teachers, lawyers, police officers, and firefighters, yep, the full gambit of employment opportunities, imagine that. Conversely, obtaining a career post football is not the major accomplishment; the major accomplishment is balancing all of their studies with the demanding and grueling commitment of playing football.

It is disconcerting that so many hold these myopic and outdated views; perhaps it is a feeling of self-inadequacies that drives their perspective. He is rich, physically gifted, with chicks swooning over him but at least I am waaaaay smarter than he is.

Historically, to disparage anyone from changing any type of inequity the first step is to dehumanize the opposition, typically the group with the least amount of power. So and so is a dumb animal so, so and so does not deserve any fair treatment or respect. It is quite disgusting when you consider what has been done based on using broad-brush strokes when painting the opposition.

It really makes me wonder how do you cheer for your team, is it the equivalent of cheering for the horse in a horse race? Some of the comments on the labor unrest are not surprising because it is status quo; I know their stance and do not respect their opinion anyway. However, from others that I respect, their comments are quite revealing.

The days of the dumb jock has been over for quite a while now. If you participated in ROTC or some equivalent extracurricular activity, you know how difficult it is to fight through mental and physical fatigue to excel in class. Add in the extra physicality of playing football, it become quite remarkable that many football players have the highest GPAs in their class or score higher than the norm when taking standardized tests.

I guess if they are richer than you are, physically more gifted than you, and smarter than you, it does not leave much but hate.

Great post.

I find it odd that you almost never hear anything like this during the season or when there's not a labor issue. But then when the labor issues make headlines, and the articles are about lawsuits and antitrust claims (tough issues for us to wrap our heads around), the insults of the players' intelligence start flying.

IMO, its that people don't understand the labor issues completely. And then we start thinking, "well if I don't understand this, then surely guys like Vince Young and Mike Vick aren't going to."

I don't understand all of the issues either. But this is the players' livelihood we're talking about. If my livelihood were affected by these issues, then I would damn sure be educated about them. And I'm sure most of the players are as well.

 

[Chocolate Lab]

I find it odd that you almost never hear anything like this during the season or when there's not a labor issue.

If players started comparing the NFL to slavery, you would.

 

[peplaw06]

If players started comparing the NFL to slavery, you would.

It started way before that. And all of the players shouldn't be subjected to insults because of one person's comment.

 

[Hostile]

I played with some very intelligent guys too. I'm betting Ad, that you also played with a few guys who were not so smart. I know you played at a school that is demanding because of barriers they are trying to break. Mine was similar. Not all colleges are trying to do that man. Surely you played against some guys who were not that intelligent.

Let's name some players. Darren Hambrick and his brother Troy. Do you consider them smart jocks? I don't and it is not just Darren's "What do voluntary mean" comments.

Quincy Carter, is he a smart jock? The guy sacrificed your dreams and mine for drugs Ad. He has a son that he never sees because he is too wrapped up in drugs. Know who he blames? Everyone else. I'm betting you won't find that intelligent.

Right now, for me anyway, the poster boy for dumb jocks is Pig Pen Ruthlessraper. Now, I firmly believe he has a form of intelligence simply due to the position he plays. You have to, especially to have any measure of success. Where I find him dumb is that he is the QB of the Pittsburgh Steelers and he feels he needs to force himself on women. Not just that, ugly women. Hopefully the idiot has had his wake up call, but I find him to be a complete moron to jeopardize his career and with an activity that could lead to him getting raped. Moron.

I do not know how you've read my commentary on the Labor situation as it pertains to the players but let me break it down to the simplest form, explanation. To me it is not about the players being dumb. It's barely about the players at all in fact with one exception. I think a lot of players are being duped. I am talking about the guys who will have no career in the NFL. They are fighting for guys who are already set for life. More money for the players is fine. I am all for that. But I'm also honest enough to point out that the more money is mostly going to go to guys who are already set for life. If Jeff Saturday of the Colts gets more money it will pale in comparison to what his fellow lead, Peyton Manning is going to get.

Now, that is fine. Peyton is a draw. Saturday is not. I get that. My problem is that the money Peyton gets means some guys get nothing and these guys are fighting for their share of nothing. I don't find that very smart. If you do, we can agree to disagree. Maybe they're like me. Convinced that all they need is a chance and stardom is there for the taking. The problem is, it isn't.

Where I find players dumb is in how they spend their money. They spend it in ways that suggest they think it will always be there. Unless they invest it wisely, it won't be. That is just a fact of life.

Here's something I don't think some people get. Yes, the owners are rich beyond anyone on this forum's wildest dreams. What happens to a Jerry Jones or Dan Snyder if they simply stop caring about making money? Answer, they will go broke. Some people will not believe that is possible, but it is the truth. Value is tied up in gain more than it is liquid. Jerry Jones does not have a billion dollars in cash at his disposal. He has assets that he could sell and get to that point. If the Dallas Cowboys are not showing a financial gain, then his biggest and best asset is a liability and his worth is diminished exponentially.

Some people will scratch their heads at that. Do you know why Sony is such a valuable commodity? Because they moved on past the walkman. If Sony had made their fortune with a walkman, and they did, and stopped, they are now a dead company. It is the same in any corporation.

The day Jerry Jones quits trying to make money from the Cowboys they will begin to wither in value and eventually if left stagnant they will die. That was where Bum Bright had the team. Jerry bought the Cowboys for a bargain price compared to their worth now. Because he pushed the envelope and he has to continue doing that wisely or they go the way of the Lions.

So I guess what I am saying is that some players are very smart, but not all. I think more than a few are being duped by the NFLPA*. I really do, and I refuse to apologize for that feeling.

 

[tyke1doe]

Intelligence is measured differently based on the situation and subject.

Players lacking intelligence don't really succeed in the NFL because players who succeed not only have talent, but they have to comprehend playbooks the size of phone books. That, my friend, is intelligence.

The unintelligent players are those who don't get on the field because they can't master the complexity of playbooks.

In fact, many of us are unintelligent in matters we have not propery studied or researched. But if we measure intelligence based on the grasp of knowledge we have in a given area, none of us would be intelligent in every subject.

Having said that, I think we need to understand that when we call people "unintelligent" we're limiting that application to a particular context. Saying the NFL is like slavery is an unintelligent thing to say. But many players don't grow up in an environment that they have to think through issues or don't have the wealth of education to make appropriate comparisons.

Then, again, when people are angry, you have to assume that they grasp for hyperbolic language.

 

[Chocolate Lab]

It started way before that. And all of the players shouldn't be subjected to insults because of one person's comment.

I don't think anyone has said that literally every player in the NFL (or college, or high school) is a stupid lunkhead. Obviously there are many players in the NFL who are intelligent, just as there are people in every walk of life who are intelligent. I think we can all tell the difference between a Darren Woodson and an Adrian Peterson.

 

[theogt]

The handful of intelligent ones shouldn't be painted with the same broad brush as the other 98%.

 

[DallasEast]

Intelligence is measured differently based on the situation and subject.

Players lacking intelligence don't really succeed in the NFL because players who succeed not only have talent, but they have to comprehend playbooks the size of phone books. That, my friend, is intelligence.

The unintelligent players are those who don't get on the field because they can't master the complexity of playbooks.

In fact, many of us are unintelligent in matters we have not propery studied or researched. But if we measure intelligence based on the grasp of knowledge we have in a given area, none of us would be intelligent in every subject.

Having said that, I think we need to understand that when we call people "unintelligent" we're limiting that application to a particular context. Saying the NFL is like slavery is an unintelligent thing to say. But many players don't grow up in an environment that they have to think through issues or don't have the wealth of education to make appropriate comparisons.

Then, again, when people are angry, you have to assume that they grasp for hyperbolic language.

Simply put, I know that Adrian Peterson and Rashard Mendenhall were upset when they made their comments. It's doubtful that anyone could argue otherwise, but I also believe that I know that they were not attempting hyperboles, metaphors or any other figures of speech.

Can I prove it? Of course not, but in my opinion, both gentlemen believe what they stated was true. The reason why they believe it is as such is debatable, but it would substantiate the fact that there is a fundamental difference between what they believe wholeheartedly is true and what is actually the truth.

 

[tunahelper]

The wonderlic score for average intelligence is 20. Qb averages are the highest at 24 and most positions lower than avg. While this isnt an ideal measurement its been used for thirty years by the NFL and others.

 

[burmafrd]

Mendenhall had time to think about what he said; so frankly that makes it worse. AP spouted off.

And there are a lot of IGNORANT football players. Those who were allowed to skate through high school and college because of their talent; never forced to learn and think and reason beyond the football field. Not stupid or unintelligent; just IGNORANT. And ALLOWED to be that way without penalty. Untill they get to the NFL and the safety net of teachers and coaches and parents that protected them and enabled them to get this far without growing up and learning how to think about a lot more than football suddenly are no longer around.

 

[Idgit]

The NFL is a collection of college graduates. For a regular population, they can't be all that dim. That said, it's likely there's not another group of college graduates anywhere who were so coddled and pushed through the system. It's pretty apparent from interviews with many of them that there's a reason for the dumb jock label. It has very little to do with the labor negotiations, either way.

 

[notherbob]

Which individual players are we talking about? Like any other group, stereotyping doesn't always apply to every individual and each person should be judged on their own merits.

There are some real dummies playing football as well as some very intelligent and articulate ones so I think each one has to be looked at for who and what they are.

 

[RCowboyFan]

Little bit of generalization there, just like observation you are making Adbutcher. I personally don't subscribe to the Dumb Jock theory, at least not all of them.

I know an academic all american football player myself, a very good friend of mine, who has Phd from Chemistry from Harvard and is now a Executive VP of a big Pharm. company ( and to top off all stereotypes, he is black too, who chose academics over football).

Personaly I am amazed at how some of these elite atheletes managed to excel in studies and athletic endevours. Since I couildn't' do both myself ( I excelled in one sport, but could never have enough time to do really well in Acadamics, not to the capacity I could have easily if i spend time on them, as some of these atheletes manage to do).

Having said that, some of the stuff coming out these pro-players, pretty much shows quite a few of them have no clue on business or how to play PR game etc. Second. being academically good doesn't translate always to be being a very intelligent in worldly stuff.

Third, its pretty common, for a quite a few people to denegrate elite people ( athletes, Actors, business people etc.) to make themselves feel better about themselves, since they can never achieve that themselves.

 

[DawnOfANewD]

Aside from Rapistgerbler, seems like when it's a black player that says or does something it's especially called out/given attention/called stupid.

 

[Robbieac]

Aside from Rapistgerbler, seems like when it's a black player that says or does something it's especially called out/given attention/called stupid.

 

[tyke1doe]

Simply put, I know that Adrian Peterson and Rashard Mendenhall were upset when they made their comments. It's doubtful that anyone could argue otherwise, but I also believe that I know that they were not attempting hyperboles, metaphors or any other figures of speech.

I disagree. I think both Mendenhall and Peterson know that playing in the NFL is in no way, shape, form or fashion like slavery.

They chose an overexaggerated comparison to highlight their feelings. That's the way people are when they're heated and upset. They make outrageous statements.

We all do it. "I hate your guts." "I wish you were never born." "I wish you were dead."

Now I haven't said those things, but I know those things are said in arguments. They're made in the heat of the moment. But unless you're just a heartless person, those are "in-the-moment" statements. They can't be measured beyond the context.