Dumbest draft thought on this board

[cnuball21]

The premise of this OP is that 10 + a late second is worth no more than 15 on his own.

And you’re the smart guy?

IMO trading down is probably the best scenario. I'd be cool going all the way to high teens / 20ish.

I think Surtain / Horn are overrated and don't see much drop off from them and the 2nd tier of guys. Add in the fact we're going to be a zone heavy D the need for spending a top 10 pick on a corner doesn't make sense to me unless he's a blue chip prospect (neither are).

 

[texbumthelife]

Horn’s 2020 tape is better than Surtain’s. Surtain has been more consistent throughout his career. Its higher ceiling vs higher floor. Although Surtain’s ceiling is also pretty high. I’m fine with both. Both are excellent fits for our scheme.

No, it's not.

Literally the only argument that exists where Horn comes out ahead of Surtain is in turnovers.

 

[texbumthelife]

Horn is better in man and equal to Surtain in Zone. Horn has an attitude this defense and this franchise desperately needs.

How is Horn better in man? Surtain's ability to re-route a receiver and make him go where he wants is elite. His ability to force guys to the boundary and use it as a defender is not only elite, but it's something some guys never learn to do. Surtain has better hands and better anticipation off the snap.

Horn is better with his eyes on the QB, but unfortunately he also frequently waits a fraction late before making his turn because he's reading the QB and not the WR. He's gotten away with it in college because, as we know now, he has very good athleticism.

As I mentioned before, Horn is a solid prospect and has the potential to be very good. He's not better THAN Surtain at anything right now.

I agree that I love his moxxy and aggression, but Jourdan Lewis has plenty of that. Xavier Woods had plenty of that. Moxxy and aggression doesn't always translate.

 

[Creeper]

even dumber to say that a player projected to be taken in rd 2 a month ago is ok to take at 10 just because he ran a fast 40 time

the idiotic fascination with CBs and WRs needs to stop

learn football

great defenses are built with great front 7 and safety play not reaching fir CBs

I agree but all things are not equal. There is no DT or DE, or even LB, as good at his position as Surtain is at CB. If there was a stud DT in this draft worthy of a top 10 pick, no one would be talking about taking a CB over him. Some might argue that Parsons is a guy who is that good, but I am not convinced. DT is the most dire need for this team and has been for years. We knew there we no DTs in this draft worthy of a top 10 selection a long time ago. The answer was to get one in free agency. But the Cowboys don't care to use all the tools at their disposal.

 

[Creeper]

By far the dumbest thing I have seen on this board and I've seen it by many different people, is this idea that you can't take J. Horn at 10 but you can take him at 13-15.

To say this is stupid is an understatement.

I don't know if I would say its the dumbest thing because no one really knows how these players will perform in the NFL, but I would not have a huge problem if the Cowboys took Horn, assuming the other top guys were off the board at 10. I do believe though, whoever they take at 10 has to be able to start at some position in 2021. No 10 picks shouldn't be sitting on the bench waiting for another guy to get hurt before they can play.

I think it would be fair to say that Sewell, Pitts, and Surtain are worthy of the #10 pick assuming the Cowboys wouldn't take a QB or WR. If none of these guys are there, then try to trade down. If they can't find a trade partner offering a reasonable exchange, then I would take Horn over any of the DEs, DTs or LBs in this draft. Some might say take Slater. I am not a great fan but I could see taking him over the defensive linemen and LBs. There are no defensive linemen in this draft worth taking at 10 IMO. The goal of this draft should be to improve the team somewhere. They have weaknesses on the OL, DL, LB and DB. The problem with taking a LB is they have to be willing to sit LVE or Jaylon Smith to make LB worth it a #10. I don't think they are willing to do that. I would say the same thing about LG. Will they sit Connor Williams to plug in Slater? I hope so but I am not certain. They seem to like Williams for some reason.

I think Horn, Surtain, and Farley could start for the Cowboys defense day one. I also think Surtain and Horn will be quality CBs in the NFL. I would say the same about Farley except for his injury history.

 

[Bigdog]

How many int’s did he have in his college career? I believe it was 2.

Then he will fit right in with us. We are allergic to the ball also

 

[RS12]

I think taking a DB that isn't an all pro type in that range is dumb. I don't see one of those in this draft.

 

[dwmyers]

TBH, the dumbest draft take I've seen is the "trade DAK" movement, because someone like Kellen Mond would be an adequate replacement for him.

D-

 

[WillieBeamen]

Na


The dumbest Draft Take is taking a lesser defensive player over someone like Pitts because “our offense is stacked”

 

[JBS]

Nowhere in my post did I ever suggest whether horn was or was not worth a top 10/15 pick.

I said

I think many give the media big boards too much weight. Horn has been listed as a top 20 prospect, where many think you can trade back and still get him. With the recent news about Farley, he has replaced Surtain's slotting and now is a top 10-12 prospect. If the Cowboys like him, they have to take him at 10.

Exactly. This is the entire point. You either like the player or you don't like the player. Either opinion is fine. But it can't be, I don't like him at 10 but I like him at 13 or even 15 for that matter. That's just stupid.

 

[JBS]

The premise of this OP is that 10 + a late second is worth no more than 15 on his own.

And you’re the smart guy?

Apparently you cannot read. Nowhere in my post did I suggest any sort of capital for moving down. The entire thread has nothing to do with what is involved via trade. It's the evaluation of the player that makes zero sense. And you are the smart guy? Lol

 

[Cowboyny]

Nowhere in my post did I ever suggest whether horn was or was not worth a top 10/15 pick.

I said


Exactly. This is the entire point. You either like the player or you don't like the player. Either opinion is fine. But it can't be, I don't like him at 10 but I like him at 13 or even 15 for that matter. That's just stupid.

In any trade back, you don't go for a specific player, but rather a few players you are happy with, one player trades are move ups.

 

[Floatyworm]

"Draft value" may be the most overused and misunderstood term on these boards.

Just be happy we haven't pulled a 49ers move for Mac Jones.

 

[Sydla]

then trade down or take offense (OL or TE)

Trade down.

 

[Sydla]

How many int’s did he have in his college career? I believe it was 2.

So?

 

[Rockport]

So?

2 int's in 3 years in college and you don't think that's important? Not surprised.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

Well, I've said many times, I think Horn is probably the best fit for us in this draft at CB but I don't like taking CB in the first. My problem is not with the player, it's with the position pick.

JMO

 

[cowboygo]

No, it's not.

Literally the only argument that exists where Horn comes out ahead of Surtain is in turnovers.

I have them neck & neck as prospects. And the tie-breaker for me is the ceiling. If Horn polishes up his grabbiness, he’s got All-Pro/lockdown CB potential.
I’d be ecstatic with both.

 

[CalPolyTechnique]

Agreed.

Horn gave up 116 yds, 3 TDs, 33% completion in 7 games. He's more athletic than Surtain, has the same NFL heritage, and has produced vs. top competition.

The idea that he's not as top a prospect as Surtain is weird and I don't get it. I'd say they're extremely similar prospects and would be more than happy with either one at 10.

I don’t see the same at all. Surtain is a technician. Horn is raw as hell to me.

 

[Gaede]

I don’t see the same at all. Surtain is a technician. Horn is raw as hell to me.

For sure, Surtain is better now, but the fact that Horn performed the way he did, with worse technique but better athleticism, indicates that he is near Surtain's level as a prospect. That is, Surtain is more polished now, but Horn has (conceivably) everything he needs to be the same type of player.