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[Stash]

Snap counts are true. But you've now attached a "value" component to the number of snaps a player plays and therefore, to apparently be worthy of that first round pick, you should choose the player who will play the most. I think that's flawed logic.

What's "flawed" about it?

Did the Cowboys ever get the proper return on investment or "value" from Anthony Fasano when he barely played sitting behind Witten? No. And it wasn't because he wasn't a good player, he played in the league for years. It was because the team never used him enough to get that return on investment.

Same goes for Martellus Bennett. A player can't give return on investment if they're not playing. No matter what the reason might be. Playing time for these two TE's, injury (Tapper/Jaylon Smith), suspension (Randy Gregory). If they're not on the field, you're not getting value for the pick.

If Vea is there at 19, I'd take him before Hernandez.

I would too. See? I have some give!

I'd take Payne before him too.

I might but that's not a certainty.

Landry could be there at 19. I'll take a freakish edge player that can help the pass rush before an OG at 19.

I wouldn't. Unless you're certain that you're not bringing Demarcus Lawrence back.

I'd take Evans over him as well. Not sure what to think on Vander Esch and Bryan, two guys also mocked in that range.

Bryan is another Marinelli 3-technique type. He's actually better suited to a 3-4 end like Tyrone Crawford in my opinion. Too many of those guys as it is. No way for me. Do not want the guy.

No on Evans and Vander Esch, again, not because they're bad players, they're not. But because their talent is comparable to a bigger need and a guy who will play a lot guaranteed (barring injury of course).

Frankly, gun to head with no defenders really on the board, I'd take Wynn because he can also play OT and maybe Williams, another guy who can play OT/OG, before Hernandez. Hernandez strikes me as a one trick pony. He's played LG his entire college career and not asked to do anything really exotic. Just line up and smash the guy in front of you. I think a guy like Wynn, who has played both OT and OG at an elite program has more flexibility and has a higher ceiling, very much like a guy we have in Martin who was one of the better LTs in college football before moving to OG full time here.

I can't blame you on that. To me, the two are neck and neck. Like you said, Henrnandez is that one trick pony, but it's that one trick we need him to be. Wynn has flexibility, but he's more of a projection too. Not that he can't do it, I think he can, but Hernandez doesn't need to be anything more than the mauling left guard that he already is. I don't think you can go wrong with either honestly.

Also, I'd take an OL at 19 before I'd take a WR.

See? There's some give!

And so would I, gladly! The worst thing you could do is follow up cutting your best wideout with forcing a reach of a pick in the draft.

 

[Sydla]

What's "flawed" about it?

Did the Cowboys ever get the proper return on investment or "value" from Anthony Fasano when he barely played sitting behind Witten? No. And it wasn't because he wasn't a good player, he played in the league for years. It was because the team never used him enough to get that return on investment.

Same goes for Martellus Bennett. A player can't give return on investment if they're not playing. No matter what the reason might be. Playing time for these two TE's, injury (Tapper/Jaylon Smith), suspension (Randy Gregory). If they're not on the field, you're not getting value for the pick.



I would too. See? I have some give!



I might but that's not a certainty.



I wouldn't. Unless you're certain that you're not bringing Demarcus Lawrence back.



Bryan is another Marinelli 3-technique type. He's actually better suited to a 3-4 end like Tyrone Crawford in my opinion. Too many of those guys as it is. No way for me. Do not want the guy.

No on Evans and Vander Esch, again, not because they're bad players, they're not. But because their talent is comparable to a bigger need and a guy who will play a lot guaranteed (barring injury of course).



I can't blame you on that. To me, the two are neck and neck. Like you said, Henrnandez is that one trick pony, but it's that one trick we need him to be. Wynn has flexibility, but he's more of a projection too. Not that he can't do it, I think he can, but Hernandez doesn't need to be anything more than the mauling left guard that he already is. I don't think you can go wrong with either honestly.



See? There's some give!

And so would I, gladly! The worst thing you could do is follow up cutting your best wideout with forcing a reach of a pick in the draft.

The flaws in it is that you are now deriving value from snap counts. But in football certain positions will always have higher snap counts than others. So OL and QB, for sure, will always have higher snap counts than say DEs or DTs, that are often part of rotations. So by placing value in snap counts, you are inherently placing a higher value on an OG position than say a DE position.

In other words, using the snap count logic, Hernandez is more worthy of the 19th pick than Vea because Hernandez could play nearly 100% of the snaps, and Vea might only play 50-60% because DL are used differently than OL.

I also am more bullish on getting another edge player than most. Even with Lawrence having a career year and being Top 3 in sacks, this Cowboys team finished middle of the pack in the NFL in sacks and QB pressures. They need more than Lawrence and that's why I'd take a freakish edge athlete like Landry before an OG at that spot.

 

[PUSHfold]

It's not upsetting.

It's that that there is no give here so why keep debating it.

And it wasn't just Leary. We repeated it with Cooper. We built two great OLs in 2014 and 2016 with two low round types in Leary and Free and then in 2017, had another good OL (well when Smith was healthy) when we had a retread in Cooper.

Given that, I think it's make a hell of a lot more sense to go find a competent OG in FA or the middle rounds and then use your premium assets to address an issue, the defense, that has been the teams Achilles heel in each of the Cowboys last two good seasons.

Uh our line sucked in 2017 for majority of the season...did they play a couple decent games? Yeah but NOTHING like 2016 or 2014...there's an absolutely huge drop off with our line when our LG is trash which is why me personally I'm ALL FOR Hernandez or Wynn at 19....it would solidify our LG spot(most likely barring injury) for the next decade.

 

[Kaiser]

Can't say the same for that "first round linebacker."

Does Dallas need linebackers? Absolutely! But do they need a "first round linebacker?"

TREMAINE EDMUNDS | Virginia Tech 6044 | 253 lbs. | JR.

Overall, Edmunds is still very young in both mind and body, but his physical traits and impact potential are off the charts, projecting best as a MIKE in a 4-3 or outside linebacker in a 3-4 scheme.

GRADE: 1st Round (#15 overall)

Personal Footnote: Gimme gimme gimme.

 

[Sydla]

Uh our line sucked in 2017 for majority of the season...did they play a couple decent games? Yeah but NOTHING like 2016 or 2014...there's an absolutely huge drop off with our line when our LG is trash which is why me personally I'm ALL FOR Hernandez or Wynn at 19....it would solidify our LG spot(most likely barring injury) for the next decade.

The OL went to trash in 2017 when Smith started to really show his back issues. When he was healthy for a stretch, the OL was actually pretty good.

People can think the issue was the LG but in reality, when Smith started having his issues, that's when the line went into the toilet.

 

[Stash]

The flaws in it is that you are now deriving value from snap counts. But in football certain positions will always have higher snap counts than others. So OL and QB, for sure, will always have higher snap counts than say DEs or DTs, that are often part of rotations. So by placing value in snap counts, you are inherently placing a higher value on an OG position than say a DE position.

It's an undeniable consideration. That's the point. With quarterbacks in particular. Why do you think they're so valued and so overpaid, even for the "OK" ones? They're out there and handling the football, and running the team on every play.

You pay the most money for the players who make the biggest impact on winning or losing. And playing the highest number of snaps means that's exactly what you're doing, and why you're out there

In other words, using the snap count logic, Hernandez is more worthy of the 19th pick than Vea because Hernandez could play nearly 100% of the snaps, and Vea might only play 50-60% because DL are used differently than OL.

If you believe that their talents are exactly the same? Yes. The advantage then goes to the player that would be on the field more? But if you or I feel that Vea is the far superior player? Then no, because all things are then not equal. It is one component of the equation, not an absolute.

I also am more bullish on getting another edge player than most. Even with Lawrence having a career year and being Top 3 in sacks, this Cowboys team finished middle of the pack in the NFL in sacks and QB pressures. They need more than Lawrence and that's why I'd take a freakish edge athlete like Landry before an OG at that spot.

Then I think that you're setting yourself up for disappointment. The team already has a 2nd and 3rd round pick invested in Lawrence (as well as $17 million-plus), and a first rounder invested in Charlton, along with paying Crawford, drafting Tapper (and possibly having Gregory), as well as signing Ealy.

That doesn't add up to them investing another first rounder in the position to me.

And unlike that left guard position, there's a backlog of candidates at defensive end, and you're starting two of them for the vast majority of your snaps. Somebody's sitting and not giving you the necessary return.

 

[Stash]

TREMAINE EDMUNDS | Virginia Tech 6044 | 253 lbs. | JR.

Overall, Edmunds is still very young in both mind and body, but his physical traits and impact potential are off the charts, projecting best as a MIKE in a 4-3 or outside linebacker in a 3-4 scheme.

GRADE: 1st Round (#15 overall)

Personal Footnote: Gimme gimme gimme.

If you really think he'd be there at #19, I wouldn't argue with that pick.

 

[Kaiser]

If you really think he'd be there at #19, I wouldn't argue with that pick.

If he really is the 15th guy on the board its not hard to picture him dropping to 19. LBs always drop and Edmunds is still somewhat raw.

As a rookie he could take significant snaps at Mike with Jaylon Smith moving around. Then when Sean Lee retires (or gets hurt) Jaylon could play the Will with Edmunds at Mike full time.

 

[Richmond Cowboy]

Are you ready for it?

He looks fat

 

[phildadon86]

He looks fat

Sounds like a Cowboy already

 

[Stash]

If he really is the 15th guy on the board its not hard to picture him dropping to 19. LBs always drop and Edmunds is still somewhat raw.

As a rookie he could take significant snaps at Mike with Jaylon Smith moving around. Then when Sean Lee retires (or gets hurt) Jaylon could play the Will with Edmunds at Mike full time.

I'd still prefer the guy with nothing standing in the way of him starting and playing all of the snaps from day one.

But again, I wouldn't fight you over getting your guy if he fell to pick #19.

 

[Bleu Star]

He looks fat

Lol!

 

[PUSHfold]

The OL went to trash in 2017 when Smith started to really show his back issues. When he was healthy for a stretch, the OL was actually pretty good.

People can think the issue was the LG but in reality, when Smith started having his issues, that's when the line went into the toilet.

The line was pretty bad the first few games, Cooper came in it got better, and then TSmith started having issues leading it to it sucking the final 8 games or so...So 4-5 games out of 16 our line was decent? Like I said the majority of last season our line was trash.

 

[Sydla]

The line was pretty bad the first few games, Cooper came in it got better, and then TSmith started having issues leading it to it sucking the final 8 games or so...So 4-5 games out of 16 our line was decent? Like I said the majority of last season our line was trash.

Trash not necessarily related to who was playing LG. Smith was having issues all season and it got worse as the year went on.

 

[xwalker]

You really can't look at it that straightforward.

Would you trade Byron Jones for Earl Thomas right now? He was a 1st round draft pick. Would you trade Jaylon Smith? Awuzie?

The reality is you're looking at getting Thomas for maximum 5 years. Probably closer to 3-4. If he can play to a high level to age 32 or 33 it's worth the trade.

No, it's not.

Byron Jones does not represent the value of a 2018 1st round pick.

 

[Galian Beast]

No, it's not.

Byron Jones does not represent the value of a 2018 1st round pick.

The reality is that we overvalue draft picks.

A good percentage of 1st round draft picks are absolute busts. And even those who develop may take 3-4 years into their careers before you even start seeing consistently stable play out of them, by that time you're generally looking at paying them veteran contracts if they're any good anyways.

Not saying trading 1st round draft picks for veterans is the way to go, but if we can trade a 2nd and a 3rd especially if either is in another year for a sure fire all pro caliber player at a position of need who has a relationship with our secondary coach, I think it's a good idea.

 

[Galian Beast]

Why was 2016 a more ideal year? Because it fits your narrative best? Lee not being injury prone is laughable at best.
And when did we have a good defense that youre using an example like it worked. 2016 was a borderline fluke year for the D and they were still just barely good enough. And that mostly had to do with the offense and ball control/field position. The D has nowhere near enough talent, 1 player isn’t helping that either

2016 was a more ideal year because it makes the best argument against my argument. Cherry picking 2017 would have been easy to make an argument as to why it doesn't make sense to over invest in linebackers.

The defensive certainly needs more talent, but you have to weigh and balance the players and how and where you get them.

 

[Bleu Star]

That's Stephen on the bike in the background (& Jerry in the basket). Will McClay's hand is reaching out from the right.

We're almost there.

 

[Bleu Star]

Man... I feel you Ross.

 

[Bleu Star]