Eagles braintrust gave a no-name their HC job in 1999 based largely on one intangible

_sturt_

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That intangible? Well, it's kinda two, but see highlighted below.

(And. Seems relevant for obvious reasons.)


https://www.si.com/nfl/2018/11/14/joe-banner-jeffrey-lurie-hiring-andy-reid



......Our study, which focused on coaches who had been to multiple Super Bowls, showed that from a football perspective there were few common threads. Some coaches came up on defense, others on offense. Some believed in throwing the ball all over the yard, others were resolute in running it. Some had extensive play-calling experience on one side of the ball or the other. Others didn’t. There was nothing there.

When we moved from there to character and personality, suddenly everything crystalized. All of these coaches were very detail-oriented, to the point where it drove those around them crazy. They were exceptional at evaluating people, and could apply that not just with players, but with coaches and scouts and support staff alike.

Above all else, they all were grounded in their philosophy, which wasn’t just a facsimile of the belief system held by others with whom they had worked. The individual philosophies differed, but all of them had a passion for their way.

We had our blueprint, and expected our lineup would look different from what the Ravens, Browns, Chiefs, Chargers, Seahawks, Panthers, Bears, and Packers put together that January. And it most certainly did.

As it turned out, we wound up with two defensive coordinators on our short list—Pittsburgh’s Jim Haslett and Oakland’s Willie Shaw—and the quarterbacks coach from Green Bay who’d spent most of his career coaching offensive linemen.

I don’t recall who first raised Andy’s name to us. What I do remember is panning coaches and players and agents, and laying out our criteria for the job, and asking, “Give me the name of someone, regardless of job or title, whom you’ve met and immediately thought, ‘This guy is a great leader.’” And Andy’s name kept coming up..............
 
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_sturt_

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When we moved from there to character and personality


(Appears someone else knew better how to display the original post than I did.... so over it, but that doesn't keep me from wishing for a better day... but anyhow, I'm just stubborn enough to highlight after all.)
 

tunahelper

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That intangible? Well, it's kinda two, but see highlighted below.

(And. Seems relevant for obvious reasons.)


https://www.si.com/nfl/2018/11/14/joe-banner-jeffrey-lurie-hiring-andy-reid



......Our study, which focused on coaches who had been to multiple Super Bowls, showed that from a football perspective there were few common threads. Some coaches came up on defense, others on offense. Some believed in throwing the ball all over the yard, others were resolute in running it. Some had extensive play-calling experience on one side of the ball or the other. Others didn’t. There was nothing there.

When we moved from there to character and personality, suddenly everything crystalized. All of these coaches were very detail-oriented, to the point where it drove those around them crazy. They were exceptional at evaluating people, and could apply that not just with players, but with coaches and scouts and support staff alike.

Above all else, they all were grounded in their philosophy, which wasn’t just a facsimile of the belief system held by others with whom they had worked. The individual philosophies differed, but all of them had a passion for their way.

We had our blueprint, and expected our lineup would look different from what the Ravens, Browns, Chiefs, Chargers, Seahawks, Panthers, Bears, and Packers put together that January. And it most certainly did.

As it turned out, we wound up with two defensive coordinators on our short list—Pittsburgh’s Jim Haslett and Oakland’s Willie Shaw—and the quarterbacks coach from Green Bay who’d spent most of his career coaching offensive linemen.

I don’t recall who first raised Andy’s name to us. What I do remember is panning coaches and players and agents, and laying out our criteria for the job, and asking, “Give me the name of someone, regardless of job or title, whom you’ve met and immediately thought, ‘This guy is a great leader.’” And Andy’s name kept coming up..............
Yeah, we just hired Andy Reid.
 

StarOfGlory

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Andy Reid was very honest with Lurie. Lurie asked him what was the number one need on his team. Reid told him that his offensive line was weak, and no team wins without the big guys upfront. He said their rookie Tra Thomas looked like a keeper, but you need another bookend tackle to build the line. He also said to stop messing around with the QB position and draft a top prospect. Thus, McNabb was drafted, and I believe the following year Jon Runyan was signed as the first big free agent signing under Reid. Lurie listened.
 

sunalsorises

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No doubt Andy Reid is a great coach but that was not the necessarily case in Philly. Reid saddled himself with Donovan McNabb. He later got the QB right with Mahomes. Reid also coached in a very depleted NFC. The year he made the Super Bowl, if I remember correctly, there were only 3 or 4 teams over .500 in the NFC. Now he coaches in a stacked AFC. Reid was a good coach in Philly but needed to leave to become great.
 

_sturt_

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Yeah, we just hired Andy Reid.
Putting words in my mouth.

But if it bothers you that critical thought requires appreciation of relevant perspectives that are both negative and positive, that's on you, not me.

And it suggests a disregard for critical thought (... common these days, in sports or in other areas of our lives). I don't make the rules of logic. I just know what they are, and I don't pretend they don't exist.
 

_sturt_

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Eagles were a crap organization with nothing to lose. Cowboys are 5 time SB winners and playing around with their coaching search.
Interesting. Because I've been reading a lot on this forum about the crap organization in Dallas. I won't rehearse all of the reasons people say ours is a crap organization... or if I agree with all those reasons, or if I agree with the conclusion itself. I'm just making an observation that seems relevant.
 

_sturt_

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Reid was a good coach in Philly but needed to leave to become great.
Think the stronger, better grounded take is.... Reid was always a SB caliber head coach...

But head coaches are slaves to the roster they're given for the most part... and arguably some of the best head coaches the league ever saw will forever be regarded by history as average, if that, because the players given to the coach to coach were simply not that exceptional

Players are the first and most essential ingredient in success.
 

Ranching

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Putting words in my mouth.

But if it bothers you that critical thought requires appreciation of relevant perspectives that are both negative and positive, that's on you, not me.

And it suggests a disregard for critical thought (... common these days, in sports or in other areas of our lives). I don't make the rules of logic. I just know what they are, and I don't pretend they don't exist.
Many just like to hear themselves think....
 

speedkilz88

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No doubt Andy Reid is a great coach but that was not the necessarily case in Philly. Reid saddled himself with Donovan McNabb. He later got the QB right with Mahomes. Reid also coached in a very depleted NFC. The year he made the Super Bowl, if I remember correctly, there were only 3 or 4 teams over .500 in the NFC. Now he coaches in a stacked AFC. Reid was a good coach in Philly but needed to leave to become great.
A great coach is still going to need great drafting and be good at taking advantage of free agency.
 

tunahelper

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Putting words in my mouth.

But if it bothers you that critical thought requires appreciation of relevant perspectives that are both negative and positive, that's on you, not me.

And it suggests a disregard for critical thought (... common these days, in sports or in other areas of our lives). I don't make the rules of logic. I just know what they are, and I don't pretend they don't exist.
I was referring to the article. My thought is
Eagles hiring an unknown Andy Reid is lightening in a bottle. Furthermore, JJ and Junior have proven they are not willing to hire a real football coach.

So yeah, we just hired Andy Reid.
 

_sturt_

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Confused. Allow me to try to understand better...

So yeah, we just hired Andy Reid.
... that wasn't a sarcastic take?

So, you're asserting that by not hiring a "real football coach," DAL caught lightning in a bottle? That Reid wasn't a "real football coach?"

Huh?

Dunno.

Suffice it to say, regardless, that the people who hired Reid back when obviously chose to give added weight to factors that are very difficult to assess, not quantitative. I do tend to think you're not wrong about the lightning in a bottle thing (insofar as the measure of the lightning is participation in a Super Bowl) because, in fact, I do think HC hiring is more about hiring any of many coaches who, given an adequate roster, are capable of getting a team to a Super Bowl. HC hiring is overrated. It's important. No doubt. But it's not quite as important as it gets made out to be with regularity, because it gets made out to be even more important than talent inventory.
 

sunalsorises

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Think the stronger, better grounded take is.... Reid was always a SB caliber head coach...

But head coaches are slaves to the roster they're given for the most part... and arguably some of the best head coaches the league ever saw will forever be regarded by history as average, if that, because the players given to the coach to coach were simply not that exceptional

Players are the first and most essential ingredient in success.
This is true. Reid drafted McNabb whose ceiling was the NFC Championship even with a HOF coach. Reid has to take a little blame for drafting McNabb, although I imagine with almost any other coach McNabb may have been out of the league in a few seasons.
 

blueblood70

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Eagles were a crap organization with nothing to lose. Cowboys are 5 time SB winners and playing around with their coaching search.
Well first of all,

that might have been the case when Jerry Jones hired Barry switzer I thought that was a pretty good hire I know no one really liked it for one I'm a Longhorn fan and I hated Oklahoma and I hated Barry switzer but at the time I thought he was a name that couldn't keep this train going we were on at the time with the shocking news we hear Jimmy Johnson's gone you got to get a name and a name that can handle the blowback Jimmie Johnson just like Jimmy was a perfect person to handle the blowback from firing Tom Landry...

The major mistakes that were made was after switzer; Chan galley and Dave Campbell just were not qualified to be our head coaches at the time, because we were still somewhat connected to the fumes from the Super bowl wins we were still the dominant franchise in peoples minds.. That was just a bad look hiring those guys..

However, we're at a point now we're so far from those days we are in a position now to where we're at a downward trend all time low in public perception we are now in the NFC the longest drought to get to an NFC championship game, so those arguments no longer apply the five times Super Bowl winning thing it does no longer apply....​

Well as much as I do not like most of what the original poster posts on a daily basis, I don't get along with him very well,

I'm gonna have to agree with him on this one,

sometimes there's other reasons why you hire someone and in this case it's familiarity with the quarterback ,with systems that can be similar but not exactly the same, to keep things at least somewhat on track...

the fact that I don't think even Jerry Jones knew Brian Schottenheimer that well because I think he got blown away in the first interview and had him back for a second and just like the guy and it seems like the locker room there's quite a few people who like Brian Schottenheimer they just do he has this character and maybe leadership that people don't know he has...

I'm not making excuses for this oddball hire, I'm not happy,

I believe they wanted a guy like Kliff Kingsbury, but the really the number one choice I believe is going to be MOORE, I really do believe Kellen Moore was going to end up with this job they were waiting until he was available for the 2nd INTERVIEW ie the formal one, , but somehow that interview changed Jerry's mind, so much so, that he talked to Pete Carroll and I don't really think he talked to Pete Carroll about the head coaching job he may have touched on it, but I think they discussed Brian Schottenheimer, and now I'm hearing stories on the Internet from other NFL ex -coaches and people that been around Brian Schottenheimer and they're saying the same thing they believe he got a lot of this from his father and from the experiences he's had waiting this long to eventually be elevated.

So, I'm not trying to in any way endorse Brian Schottenheimer but I'm also not going to sit here and lift my leg on it...

I believe all these new head coaches the first time head coaches just because they had a hot name doesn't mean a damn thing they were anointed the highest right coordinators, the hot ticket, the new fresh face, doesn't mean they're going to have any success not any more success than BS,

they're all in the same boat to me, they're all even, they need to get the support from their GM and owner and that's where I'm not sure Brian may not have a fair shake. I mean we do agree that Jerry's gonna have to do more than he did for Mike last offseason he needs to make a bigger splash in free agency make sure they don't pick any projects or any reaches in the draft they need to reinforce this higher by having a better offseason giving schottenheimer the best leg up they can with support..

That's what's scary here is there already saying Brian Schottenheimer is going to be bringing us back to the Dave campo days but I just don't see that we do have enough talent on this team as in the core that if we could stay healthy it needs to have some additions made but any of the new head coaches that were hired here would have had the same challenge will Jerry do more this offseason that he did in the last...??



.
 

sunalsorises

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A great coach is still going to need great drafting and be good at taking advantage of free agency.
That's true. My point was that Reid drafted McNabb who ended up handicapping him. Reid got it right on his second try with Mahomes and may end up being part of the first 3-peat in league history.
 

slick325

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Andy Reid was very honest with Lurie. Lurie asked him what was the number one need on his team. Reid told him that his offensive line was weak, and no team wins without the big guys upfront. He said their rookie Tra Thomas looked like a keeper, but you need another bookend tackle to build the line. He also said to stop messing around with the QB position and draft a top prospect. Thus, McNabb was drafted, and I believe the following year Jon Runyan was signed as the first big free agent signing under Reid. Lurie listened.
This is why I had hoped the Jones boys would bring in top candidates like Johnson, Glenn, Slowik, Kingsbury, etc. I would have asked UNC for permission to interview Belichick, too. Maybe even Nick Saban.

You do so to pick their brains just as much as you try to find your next HC. Lurie listened and went about their search at the time in a good way.
 
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