Eagles open to trading Murray

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bkight13 said:
Under your criteria Dez isn't a top WR because he had a bad 2015.
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I never listed any criteria. I was just looking for an honest answer.

bkight13 said:
I'm saying they are ALL top 5.
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That wasn't so hard, was it. I disagree, of course. I don't believe Murray is on their level, and I base that on what they were able to do for McFadden (who I don't think is even on Murray's level) without a passing offense.
 
FuzzyLumpkins said:
I was sad when he was drafted a half dozen or so spots in front of us.
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yeah he is a Murray type back had good size and power, and looked good in the few games I saw him play.
To me the cards passed too much, and should have ran more with him.
He was also good receiver.
 
percyhoward said:
I never listed any criteria. I was just looking for an honest answer.


That wasn't so hard, was it. I disagree, of course. I don't believe Murray is on their level, and I base that on what they were able to do for McFadden (who I don't think is even on Murray's level) without a passing offense.
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You can't disagree with facts.

Since Murray entered the League he is 4th in Yards from Scrimmage out of all RBs and has the 4th highest AAV salary at 8m. That means he is in the Top 5 at his position.

You were wrong, just admit it.
 
Over the last 5 years, I would have personally taken Lesean McCoy, Matt Forte, Adrian Peterson, Marshawn Lynch or Jamaal Charles over Demarco Murray. Only a complete Murray homer would argue otherwise. Now in the NFL...I would take a ton of backs over him.

Murray was considered a good, not great back that couldn't stay healthy and yes battling injuries during his first 3 years in the league and his fifth year is considered injury prone. He had one amazing, all pro season. Over the same time...Arian Foster, Adrian Peterson, Marshawn Lynch, Jamaal Charles and Lesean McCoy had multiple All Pro seasons. Stats can be misleading and inflated by one good season or deflated by one bad season, probowls are a popularity contest, All Pro teams are the true measure.

I personally think Forte has been a better all around back the past 5 years as well so there is six backs better than Murray. Over the past 5 seasons, Murray has had one top 5 caliber season....one top 5 caliber season does not make you a top 5 back. You could make an argument that Arian Foster, Eddie Lacy, Doug Martin, Matt Forte, Adrian Peterson, LeSean McCoy, Jamaal Charles and Marshawn Lynch have all had more top 5 caliber seasons over that same time frame. You can even stretch it a little further and add Ray Rice and Alfred Morris to even push Murray out of the top 10 over the past 5 years as far as good, consistent all pro caliber seasons but I wouldn't because Morris is one dimensional and Rice missed two seasons and was awful one.

I would rank Murray at about 9th since he has came into the league based on that breakdown. Frank Gore should also be ahead of him because he has had 4 top 10 seasons.

Murray has had one season where he was arguably the best back in the league. One top 10 season, two middle of the pack seasons riddled by injuries and one bottom 10 season. This does not equal a top 5 back.
 
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robjay04 said:
Over the last 5 years, I would have personally taken Lesean McCoy, Matt Forte, Adrian Peterson, Marshawn Lynch or Jamaal Charles over Demarco Murray. Only a complete Murray homer would argue otherwise. Now in the NFL...I would take a ton of backs over him.

Murray was considered a good, not great back that couldn't stay healthy and yes battling injuries during his first 3 years in the league and his fifth year is considered injury prone. He had one amazing, all pro season. Over the same time...Arian Foster, Adrian Peterson, Marshawn Lynch, Jamaal Charles and Lesean McCoy had multiple All Pro seasons. Stats can be misleading and inflated by one good season or deflated by one bad season, probowls are a popularity contest, All Pro teams are the true measure.

I personally think Forte has been a better all around back the past 5 years as well so there is six backs better than Murray. Over the past 5 seasons, Murray has had one top 5 caliber season....one top 5 caliber season does not make you a top 5 back. You could make an argument that Arian Foster, Eddie Lacy, Doug Martin, Matt Forte, Adrian Peterson, LeSean McCoy, Jamaal Charles and Marshawn Lynch have all had more top 5 caliber seasons over that same time frame. You can even stretch it a little further and add Ray Rice and Alfred Morris to even push Murray out of the top 10 over the past 5 years as far as good, consistent all pro caliber seasons but I wouldn't. I would rank Murray at about 8th since he has came into the league and I could be forgetting someone.

He has had one season where he was arguably the best back in the league. One top 10 season, two middle of the pack seasons riddled by injuries and one bottom 10 season.
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You can make an argument but the stats don't back you up. Charles, Lynch, AD, Foster all have missed significant time.

And I know you didn't put Lacy up there. He is one egg roll from being a Guard.
 
bkight13 said:
You can make an argument but the stats don't back you up. Charles, Lynch, AD, Foster all have missed significant time.

And I know you didn't put Lacy up there. He is one egg roll from being a Guard.
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Eddie Lacy has had a success rate on 2/3 seasons. 1 top 10 season, 1 top 5 season and 1 dud. Murray has had 1 top 5 season, 1 top 10 season, 2 duds and a solid but injury prone rookie year. His season last year was better than Murray.

And yes the stats do back me up. Consistency backs me up, All Pro performances back me up.

As I said, stats can be easily manipulated, probowl appearances mean nothing but All Pro performances mean more. At least a half dozen backs have had more elite seasons than Murray since he has been in the league.
 
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bkight13 said:
Since Murray entered the League he is 4th in Yards from Scrimmage out of all RBs and has the 4th highest AAV salary at 8m. That means he is in the Top 5 at his position.
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You may think that's what it means.

I think Murray benefited from being on a team with a top 10 QB that threw the ball often, where he didn't have to face defenses that were playing run. I don't think it's a coincidence that when we'd built an OL that was good enough to commit to the run, and defenses adjusted accordingly, his average went down. Neither is it a coincidence that when he went to Philly where there was no passing threat, his average went down even more.

But to me, the thing that really hurts Murray's case is what McFadden was able to do behind this line, with no passing threat. Given the same number of carries Murray had in 2014, McFadden would have had close to 1,800 yards.
 
percyhoward said:
You may think that's what it means.

I think Murray benefited from being on a team with a top 10 QB that threw the ball often, where he didn't have to face defenses that were playing run. I don't think it's a coincidence that when we'd built an OL that was good enough to commit to the run, and defenses adjusted accordingly, his average went down. Neither is it a coincidence that when he went to Philly where there was no passing threat, his average went down even more.

But to me, the thing that really hurts Murray's case is what McFadden was able to do behind this line, with no passing threat. Given the same number of carries Murray had in 2014, McFadden would have had close to 1,800 yards.
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But he didn't have as many carries because he wasn't good enough to get them.

He also only had 3 TDs.

This is what I mean when I say you try to twist stats into telling stories.

DMC in 2015 was nowhere near as good as Murray in 2014. Even his 4th place finish in 2015 would have only been 11th in the 2014.

The difference between the 2 seasons would have qualified for the Pro Bowl if it was a RB. Almost 800 yds and 10 TDs.
 
bkight13 said:
Nice arbitrary cut-off.
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Then you decide on the cut-off.

most seasons of 1100+ yards
10 players ahead of Murray

most seasons of 1200+ yards
10 players ahead of Murray

most seasons of 1300+ yards
7 players ahead of Murray

most seasons of 1400+ yards
6 players ahead of Murray

most seasons of 1500+ yards
8 players ahead of Murray

most seasons of 1600+ yards
8 players ahead of Murray
 
percyhoward said:
Then you decide on the cut-off.

most seasons of 1100+ yards
10 players ahead of Murray

most seasons of 1200+ yards
10 players ahead of Murray

most seasons of 1300+ yards
7 players ahead of Murray

most seasons of 1400+ yards
6 players ahead of Murray

most seasons of 1500+ yards
8 players ahead of Murray

most seasons of 1600+ yards
8 players ahead of Murray
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How about 900 or 1000 yards?
 
percyhoward said:
Each year, there are about 20 RB with 1,000+ yards from scrimmage.
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Nice dodge.

This is why you can't be taken seriously.

You said DMurray wasn't a top 5 RB. Multiple stats proved you wrong and you still can't admit it.
 
bkight13 said:
Nice dodge.

This is why you can't be taken seriously.

You said DMurray wasn't a top 5 RB. Multiple stats proved you wrong and you still can't admit it.
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You're the only one making this argument.

One top five season does not make you a top 5 back especially over players who have had multiple top 5 seasons.

By using your same logic, Matthew Stafford has been a top 5 QB since 2011. He is top 5 in yards and touchdowns. He has more yards and touchdowns than other perceived better players because he had an inflated season and those guys missed some time.

Regardless, he is a top 5 player because that top 5 season was so good it puts him ahead of guys that were better every other season in that span, right?
 
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