Eldorado Polygamist Sect

peplaw06

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Seems like more and more the Zone is where I get ALL of my news. We were discussing this in the office today and I knew nothing about it. You guys are slacking here.... come on, you have to keep me informed :D

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080410/ap_on_re_us/polygamist_retreat

Texas authorities defend sect raid

By BETSY BLANEY and MICHELLE ROBERTS, Associated Press WritersThu Apr 10, 5:46 PM ET

It was no secret that a polygamist sect that built a compound in the West Texas desert believed in marrying off underage girls to older men. And the sheriff had an informant for four years who was feeding him information about life inside the sect.

But authorities say their hands were tied until last week, when they finally obtained the legal grounds to move against the group.

The trigger for the raid was a hushed phone call from a terrified 16-year-old girl to a family-violence shelter to report that her 50-year-old husband had beaten and raped her. State troopers put into action the plan they had on the shelf to enter the 1,700-acre compound, and 416 children, most of them girls, were swept into state custody because of suspicions that they were being sexually and physically abused.

On Thursday, state and local law enforcement authorities defended their decision to leave the sect alone for four years after it moved in.

"We are aware that this group is capable of" sexually abusing girls, Sheriff David Doran said. "But there again, this is the United States. We are going to respect them. We're not going to violate their civil rights until we get an outcry."

Doran said it was not until after the raid began that he learned that the sect was, in fact, marrying off underage girls at the compound and had a bed in its soaring limestone temple where the girls were required to immediately consummate their marriages. Also, investigators say a number of teenage girls there are pregnant.

Authorities in Texas suspected there would be trouble ever since members of the renegade Mormon splinter group — the Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints — bought an exotic game ranch in Eldorado in 2004 and began building the ranch.

Warren Jeffs, the sect's prophet and spiritual leader at its longtime headquarters in the dusty, side-by-side towns of Hildale, Utah, and Colorado City, Ariz., was charged in 2005 and 2006 with forcing underage girls into marriages there. He was convicted in September in Utah of being an accomplice to rape and is serving up to life in prison.

Doran had been making occasional visits to the Eldorado compound — he even called to tell members of Jeffs' capture in 2006 — but he said he saw nothing to warrant a criminal investigation. Most of those milling around the compound would scatter when he and a Texas Ranger visited, he said.

"You can only press someone so far without having a criminal investigation going on," the sheriff said. "This group doesn't openly talk and they do not openly answer questions."

Doran said he had an informant who was "instrumental in teaching me the group's ways." But he declined to say whether the informant, a former sect member, was in Texas, or Utah or Arizona.

Barry Caver, a Texas Ranger who sometimes went with Doran to the compound, said a general welfare check wouldn't have produced much. "They would allow us on the property to the extent that we could talk to the main three or four people" only, Caver said.

Texas Attorney General Gregg Abbott said that despite other states' investigations into Jeffs and FLDS, Texas authorities had to wait until they had evidence of wrongdoing in this state to act. He said authorities handled the case properly.

"You cannot go in and bust in someone's house if there's not probable cause to do so," Abbott said.

Jonathan Turley, a George Washington University law professor who has written about polygamy, said even Jeffs' conviction was not enough to barge in on the sect in Eldorado.

"You cannot use stale evidence," Turley said. "They would need a contemporary statement or evidence at trial that an individual at the compound is practicing polygamy."

The man alleged to be the 16-year-old girl's husband, Dale Barlow, is a registered sex offender who pleaded no contest to having sex with a minor in Arizona.

"I do not know this girl that they keep asking about," he told Utah's Deseret Morning News on Wednesday. "And I have not been to Texas since I was a young man back in 1977."

Officials still have not identified the 16-year-old girl among the children and the 139 women being held at two sites in Texas.

"When you're dealing with a culture like this, they're taught from very early on that they don't answer questions to the point," Doran said. "All of that is certainly being sorted out right now."
___
Associated Press writers Michael Graczyk in Houston and Jim Vertuno in Austin contributed to this report.
There's also a huge group of about 350 lawyers headed to San Angelo to represent the 416 children in tomorrow's adversary hearing, many of them among the best family lawyers in the state. Interesting stuff. If this is too controversial for the religious stuff I apologize. If this should be in the Political Zone, please move.
 

Hostile

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I've long been debating whether to chime in on this topic or not. I used to live in St. George, Utah which is not far from the twin towns of Hilldale, Utah and Colorado City, Arizona where this sect comes from.

Members of the sect came to town all the time to shop and I've made deliveries to their towns as well. The media is portraying these people as distrusting of the outside world, and to a degree that is true. I worked for an office supply company in St. George and one time I had to deliver folding tables to their school. It was very hard to get anyone to talk to me at all. There was a group of boys throwing a football and one of them could really throw the ball. I felt really bad because I know he can never go anywhere in their sect and do anything with that ability.

For the most part they are very good people. They work extremely hard. I got to know one man out there fairly well. To protect his true identity I'm going to call him John Brown. John was a very wealthy man and high up in their community. He told me to never speed when going through their town and that if I did to call him. He owned the grocery store in Colorado City and I delivered a desk to them one time. Most of the people stare at you and are distant, but once they saw me joking around with John, it was different. They became friendly.

Same with people who came to town to shop. Always friendly when I dealt with them. They do all kinds of things to avoid paying taxes. For example the school buys a lot of stuff and they pay the school since it is tax exempt. They don't finish most of their houses so they don't have full property taxes. They buy cars across state lines to avoid taxes, or buy them for the school and then from the school.

I never met Warren Jeffs or his father, their previous leader. Do I believe they brainwash the kids and women? You better believe I do.

Take it for what it is worth. I am not at all surprised at this stuff.
 

joseephuss

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I too have been debating on whether to chime in on this topic.

Why does everyone in the media(even here in Austin) pronounce Eldorado as "L-door- Ray-do" instead of "L-door-rah-do"? It was the latter in John Wayne's movie "El Dorado", which was supposed to be the same town.
 

peplaw06

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joseephuss;2038706 said:
I too have been debating on whether to chime in on this topic.

Why does everyone in the media(even here in Austin) pronounce Eldorado as "L-door- Ray-do" instead of "L-door-rah-do"? It was the latter in John Wayne's movie "El Dorado", which was supposed to be the same town.

It's Texas... specifically West Texas. They do things a little differently out there. It's Co-lo-RAY-do City in West Texas. DeLeon is pronounced DEE-LEE-on.

BTW, interesting stuff there Hos. I swear it seems like you have personal experiences when it comes to just about every topic.
 

Hostile

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peplaw06;2038791 said:
It's Texas... specifically West Texas. They do things a little differently out there. It's Co-lo-RAY-do City in West Texas. DeLeon is pronounced DEE-LEE-on.

BTW, interesting stuff there Hos. I swear it seems like you have personal experiences when it comes to just about every topic.
I've had a colorful life. Not all of it good, but I've learned from most of it.

If you ask anyone from that area of Utah or Arizona they will tell you the same things I did. The guy I used to work for at the Office Supply place, Mark, had been out there so many times that everyone knew him and he still got the odd stares and the silence. He'd lived around there all his life and was still uncomfortable around them.

The guy I talked about as John was really the only person out there that I ever really saw as "normal." He was a real character and enjoyed laughing and jawing with everyone. More than once though I saw his sons stand there stoic while everyone else was laughing. it was like they were not allowed to be part of the discussion but were supposed to observe it.

Odd folks.
 

BrAinPaiNt

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Hostile;2038372 said:
I've long been debating whether to chime in on this topic or not. I used to live in St. George, Utah which is not far from the twin towns of Hilldale, Utah and Colorado City, Arizona where this sect comes from.

Members of the sect came to town all the time to shop and I've made deliveries to their towns as well. The media is portraying these people as distrusting of the outside world, and to a degree that is true. I worked for an office supply company in St. George and one time I had to deliver folding tables to their school. It was very hard to get anyone to talk to me at all. There was a group of boys throwing a football and one of them could really throw the ball. I felt really bad because I know he can never go anywhere in their sect and do anything with that ability.

For the most part they are very good people. They work extremely hard. I got to know one man out there fairly well. To protect his true identity I'm going to call him John Brown. John was a very wealthy man and high up in their community. He told me to never speed when going through their town and that if I did to call him. He owned the grocery store in Colorado City and I delivered a desk to them one time. Most of the people stare at you and are distant, but once they saw me joking around with John, it was different. They became friendly.

Same with people who came to town to shop. Always friendly when I dealt with them. They do all kinds of things to avoid paying taxes. For example the school buys a lot of stuff and they pay the school since it is tax exempt. They don't finish most of their houses so they don't have full property taxes. They buy cars across state lines to avoid taxes, or buy them for the school and then from the school.

I never met Warren Jeffs or his father, their previous leader. Do I believe they brainwash the kids and women? You better believe I do.

Take it for what it is worth. I am not at all surprised at this stuff.

I believe I saw something like this on a documentary a few years back. I could be wrong but I think they called that bleeding the beast or something...beast being the US Government as they seen them as evil or something.

But it was a while back when I seen that so I could be getting that wrong.
 

Hostile

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BrAinPaiNt;2038826 said:
I believe I saw something like this on a documentary a few years back. I could be wrong but I think they called that bleeding the beast or something...beast being the US Government as they seen them as evil or something.

But it was a while back when I seen that so I could be getting that wrong.
They have all kinds of phrases like that. In the Warren Jeffs rape trial they brought up that women are told to "stay sweet." Their women are to smile and give the impression that all is well.

Yesterday on Tahoo I saw a video where Robin Roberts was interviewing 3 of the women who just wanted their children back. Throughout the interview where they are supposed to expressing anguish they are smiling. I just kept hearing the coaching they must have got to "stay sweet." It was like it was echoing throughout the interview.
 

BrAinPaiNt

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Hostile;2038866 said:
They have all kinds of phrases like that. In the Warren Jeffs rape trial they brought up that women are told to "stay sweet." Their women are to smile and give the impression that all is well.

Yesterday on Tahoo I saw a video where Robin Roberts was interviewing 3 of the women who just wanted their children back. Throughout the interview where they are supposed to expressing anguish they are smiling. I just kept hearing the coaching they must have got to "stay sweet." It was like it was echoing throughout the interview.

I have to tell you, some of this stuff fascinates me. I really am interested in the extreme mormons (polygamist not the regular ones) and also scientology.

No not interested because I would want to join them, just interested in general.

I found myself yesterday evening looking up some youtube vids on the topics and some of it is just fascinating and at the same time disturbing.

I would actually love to visit a mormon compound or scientologist center and just sit and talk with someone that would be willing to actually sit and go over the beliefs and answer questions I might have. I doubt that I would ever get to visit either and I doubt I would ever get someone to talk to me in an open way about it, but it would still be something I would love to do.
 

LittleBoyBlue

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BrAinPaiNt;2038897 said:
I would actually love to visit a mormon compound or scientologist center and just sit and talk with someone that would be willing to actually sit and go over the beliefs and answer questions I might have. I doubt that I would ever get to visit either and I doubt I would ever get someone to talk to me in an open way about it, but it would still be something I would love to do.

Find a good forum for either ;)

Next best thing.
 

joseephuss

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BrAinPaiNt;2038897 said:
I have to tell you, some of this stuff fascinates me. I really am interested in the extreme mormons (polygamist not the regular ones) and also scientology.

No not interested because I would want to join them, just interested in general.

I found myself yesterday evening looking up some youtube vids on the topics and some of it is just fascinating and at the same time disturbing.

I would actually love to visit a mormon compound or scientologist center and just sit and talk with someone that would be willing to actually sit and go over the beliefs and answer questions I might have. I doubt that I would ever get to visit either and I doubt I would ever get someone to talk to me in an open way about it, but it would still be something I would love to do.

Did you check out the Scientologists stuff that has been leaked recently?

http://www.mister-info.com/?cmd=displaystory&story_id=10440&format=html

http://www.wikileaks.org/wiki/Church_of_Scientology's_'Operating_Thetan'_documents_leaked_online
 

BrAinPaiNt

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Yeagermeister;2039052 said:
Why would anyone want more than one wife? One is enough. :laugh2:

Man alive could you imagine the nagging coming from multiple directions.:laugh2:
 

theebs

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BrAinPaiNt;2038897 said:
I have to tell you, some of this stuff fascinates me. I really am interested in the extreme mormons (polygamist not the regular ones) and also scientology.

No not interested because I would want to join them, just interested in general.

I found myself yesterday evening looking up some youtube vids on the topics and some of it is just fascinating and at the same time disturbing.

I would actually love to visit a mormon compound or scientologist center and just sit and talk with someone that would be willing to actually sit and go over the beliefs and answer questions I might have. I doubt that I would ever get to visit either and I doubt I would ever get someone to talk to me in an open way about it, but it would still be something I would love to do.


Dont lie, you know you want to be a mormotologist and have three wives and
ride in spaceships.
 

Yeagermeister

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BrAinPaiNt;2039072 said:
Man alive could you imagine the nagging coming from multiple directions.:laugh2:

:explode:

theebs;2039110 said:
Dont lie, you know you want to be a mormotologist and have three wives and
ride in spaceships.

He just wants to be able to have more than one sheep. :laugh2:
 

BrAinPaiNt

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theebs;2039110 said:
Dont lie, you know you want to be a mormotologist and have three wives and
ride in spaceships.

Correction...three MISTRESSES and ride in space ships.


That way when I bore of them I can drop them off without having to fear losing a portion of my money to them.:p:
 

BrAinPaiNt

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YoMick;2039280 said:
Whats the matter? Cant multi-task? :laugh2:

Did you say multi-smack? :p: ;)

On a side note, my wife just Loves it when she is talking and I point the remote at her and start hitting buttons.

Then I smack the remote and say aloud...why isn't this darn think working.
 

JIMMYBUFFETT

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I live in San Angelo and my deer lease in Eldorado (we say El-Doe-Ray-Doe) borders the fence of the FLDS compund . I've hunted there for 3 years and the most I've ever see or heard from them is driving across their pasture . I'm so close to the temple itself that I can see people walking in front of it , and the light off of it at night keeps me from needing a flashlight at my little hunting cabin .

I have no insight on the people themselves because they are just stone quiet . Most of the men make the 30 minute drive to San Angelo daily to work construction jobs , and other than that they have no contact with the outside world . They even have their own propane truck . When propane is delivered to them , they meet the delivery truck at the gate and off load to their own truck so that no outsiders enter the compound .

The compound itself is remarkable and pictures can't do it's size justice . They are completely self-sufficient and grow their own food , raise their own beef and poultry , and do all of the improvements to the compound themselves . They have a football field size garden , a peach orchard , their own concrete factory , and numerous cranes on the property .

The whole thing has turned San Angelo upside down , and we are swarming with lawyers , DPS from all over Texas , CPS workers , and Texas Rangers . We are currently housing the women and children at Fort Concho , which is an old historic fort and past home to the Buffalo Soldiers .

For the most part they are a quiet people that pretty much just want to be left alone . Still , you can't discount the fact that there are children involved , and they have pulled out several 14 year old girls that are pregnant and already have a child . Regardless of religious beliefs , that's just not right .

The DPS and Texas Rangers have also done a terrific job of keeping peace . There isn't a person around this area who didn't believe this would be the next "Waco" when they raided the place . It probably would have been had the Rangers not been involved . The Texas Rangers are law enforcements version of the Navy Seals , and when they demanded entry , they got it .
 
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