Eldorado Polygamist Sect

joseephuss

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JIMMYBUFFETT;2039334 said:
The DPS and Texas Rangers have also done a terrific job of keeping peace . There isn't a person around this area who didn't believe this would be the next "Waco" when they raided the place . It probably would have been had the Rangers not been involved . The Texas Rangers are law enforcements version of the Navy Seals , and when they demanded entry , they got it .

Were they armed? The comparisons to Waco are easy to make at first glance, but I had never heard if this sect was packing heavy artillery or not. I bet they probably owned some firearms, but the Branch Davidians were heavily armed. I think that is another reason as to why this did not turn into another Waco as well as all the good work done by the DPS and Rangers.
 

theebs

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JIMMYBUFFETT;2039334 said:
I live in San Angelo and my deer lease in Eldorado (we say El-Doe-Ray-Doe) borders the fence of the Mormon compund . I've hunted there for 3 years and the most I've ever see or heard from them is driving across their pasture . I'm so close to the temple itself that I can see people walking in front of it , and the light off of it at night keeps me from needing a flashlight at my little hunting cabin .

I have no insight on the people themselves because they are just stone quiet . Most of the men make the 30 minute drive to San Angelo daily to work construction jobs , and other than that they have no contact with the outside world . They even have their own propane truck . When propane is delivered to them , they meet the delivery truck at the gate and off load to their own truck so that no outsiders enter the compound .

The compound itself is remarkable and pictures can't do it's size justice . They are completely self-sufficient and grow their own food , raise their own beef and poultry , and do all of the improvements to the compound themselves . They have a football field size garden , a peach orchard , their own concrete factory , and numerous cranes on the property .

The whole thing has turned San Angelo upside down , and we are swarming with lawyers , DPS from all over Texas , CPS workers , and Texas Rangers . We are currently housing the women and children at Fort Concho , which is an old historic fort and past home to the Buffalo Soldiers .

For the most part they are a quiet people that pretty much just want to be left alone . Still , you can't discount the fact that there are children involved , and they have pulled out several 14 year old girls that are pregnant and already have a child . Regardless of religious beliefs , that's just not right .

The DPS and Texas Rangers have also done a terrific job of keeping peace . There isn't a person around this area who didn't believe this would be the next "Waco" when they raided the place . It probably would have been had the Rangers not been involved . The Texas Rangers are law enforcements version of the Navy Seals , and when they demanded entry , they got it .

Interesting. It must be a really tricky situation for law enforcement and the courts.
 

JIMMYBUFFETT

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joseephuss;2039362 said:
Were they armed? The comparisons to Waco are easy to make at first glance, but I had never heard if this sect was packing heavy artillery or not. I bet they probably owned some firearms, but the Branch Davidians were heavily armed. I think that is another reason as to why this did not turn into another Waco as well as all the good work done by the DPS and Rangers.

No they weren't . Just your average handful of deer rifles and shotguns . It was suspected that they had a large stockpile of arms , but nothing significant was ever found .
 

LittleBoyBlue

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BrAinPaiNt;2039284 said:
Did you say multi-smack? :p: ;)

On a side note, my wife just Loves it when she is talking and I point the remote at her and start hitting buttons.

Then I smack the remote and say aloud...why isn't this darn think working.


LMAO

When I first start reading your post I thought it read as follows

"my wife just loves it when she is talking and I point to the remote" - - as in give me the remote cant you see I am watching TV... so... shut the heck up....

Thats what I get for reading too fast LOL
or maybe its something *I* have done in the past :eek:
 

burmafrd

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What is really sad is that that place could have been shut down years ago but the authorities rightfully feared the lawsuits if they moved too fast.
 

peplaw06

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burmafrd;2040211 said:
What is really sad is that that place could have been shut down years ago but the authorities rightfully feared the lawsuits if they moved too fast.
Leave it to you to try to take a not-so-thinly veiled shot at the legal system over this. Nevermind the fact that you're wrong.

The authorities don't fear being sued. They want the charges, if any filed, against the accused to stick. In order for that to happen, they have to follow the procedure set up by the Constitution. They can't just go in there and arrest everyone on mere suspicion. That's when cases get thrown out, and the people would go right back to doing what they were doing before.

Now if you have a beef with the Constitution, take it up with your Senator/Representative.
 

LittleBoyBlue

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peplaw06;2040234 said:
Leave it to you to try to take a not-so-thinly veiled shot at the legal system over this. Nevermind the fact that you're wrong.

The authorities don't fear being sued. They want the charges, if any filed, against the accused to stick. In order for that to happen, they have to follow the procedure set up by the Constitution. They can't just go in there and arrest everyone on mere suspicion. That's when cases get thrown out, and the people would go right back to doing what they were doing before.

Now if you have a beef with the Constitution, take it up with your Senator/Representative.


Your law posts are usually informative. Thanks.

On a sidenote: Just started watching Cantebury's Law with Julianna Marguilles.

Know of it? Thoughts?

Its available on fox.com

Anyhoo
 

superpunk

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JIMMYBUFFETT;2040476 said:
Yuck ! That's a day ruiner .
Apparently it's just a dutch comedian and his zany sense of humor.

I was not amused.

Perhaps it's the language barrier?
 

JIMMYBUFFETT

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peplaw06;2040234 said:
Leave it to you to try to take a not-so-thinly veiled shot at the legal system over this. Nevermind the fact that you're wrong.

The authorities don't fear being sued. They want the charges, if any filed, against the accused to stick. In order for that to happen, they have to follow the procedure set up by the Constitution. They can't just go in there and arrest everyone on mere suspicion. That's when cases get thrown out, and the people would go right back to doing what they were doing before.

Now if you have a beef with the Constitution, take it up with your Senator/Representative.

You're right , and only one arrest was made so far in the entire incident , though I feel many more will follow in the coming weeks .

The Texas Law Enforcement really handled this one well , and were well coordinated . When the raid began the Texas Sheriff's Department blocked off the one and only road (Rudd Road) into the compund . The DPS and Texas Rangers made the entry together and took control of the compound . The Texas Game Wardens also entered with 30 agents to investigate the outlying property . All of this took place between Thursday and Friday evening without a single incident .
 

peplaw06

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YoMick;2040412 said:
Your law posts are usually informative. Thanks.

On a sidenote: Just started watching Cantebury's Law with Julianna Marguilles.

Know of it? Thoughts?

Its available on fox.com

Anyhoo
Haven't seen it. I'll have to check it out.
 

peplaw06

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http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080419/ap_on_re_us/polygamist_retreat

Polygamous-sect children ordered to stay in Texas custody

By MICHELLE ROBERTS, Associated Press Writer 57 minutes ago

A chaotic two-day hearing ended with dropped heads and silence when a judge ordered that the 416 children taken from a ranch run by a polygamous sect will stay in state custody for the time being.

State District Judge Barbara Walther heard 21 hours of testimony over two days before ruling Friday that the children would be kept in custody while the state continues to investigate allegations of abuse stemming from the teachings of the Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints.

"This is but the beginning," Walther said.

She also ordered genetic testing to sort out family relationships that have confounded welfare authorities.

Individual hearings will be set for the children over the next several weeks, and the judge will determine whether they are moved into permanent foster care or can be returned to their parents. All of the hearings must be held by June 5.

Walther ordered all 416 children and parents be given genetic tests. Child welfare officials say they've had difficulty determining how the children and adults are related because of evasive or changing answers.

A mobile genetic lab will take samples Monday at the main shelter where children are being kept; parents will be able to submit samples Tuesday in Eldorado, closer to the ranch.

The custody case is one of the largest and most convoluted in U.S. history. The ruling on Friday capped two days of marathon testimony that sometimes descended into chaos as hundreds of lawyers for the children and parents competed to defend their clients in two large rooms linked by a video feed.

Attorneys popped up with objections in a courtroom and nearby auditorium, then queued up and down the aisle to cross-examine witnesses in a mass hearing that frustrated attorneys and stretched the small-town court system.

The April 3 raid on the Yearning For Zion Ranch was prompted by a call made to a family violence shelter, purportedly by a 16-year-old girl who said her 50-year-old husband beat and raped her. That girl has never been identified.

The state argued it should be allowed to keep the children because the sect's teaching encourages girls younger than 18 to enter spiritual marriages with older men and produce as many children as possible. Its attorneys argued that the culture put all the girls at risk and potentially turned the boys into future predators.

A witness for the parents who was presented by defense lawyers as an expert on the FLDS disputed that the girls have no say in who they marry.

"I believe the girls are given a real choice," said W. John Walsh. "Girls have successfully said, 'No, this is not a good match for me,' and they remained in good standing."

But Dr. Bruce Perry, a psychiatrist who has studied children in cults, testified that the girls will not refuse marriages because they are indoctrinated to believe disobedience will lead to their damnation.

The renegade Mormon sect's belief system "is abusive. The culture is very authoritarian," he said.

Perry acknowledged that many adults at the ranch are loving parents and that the boys seemed emotionally healthy. When asked whether the belief system really endangered the older boys or young children, Perry said, "I have lost sleep over that question."

He also conceded that the children, taught from birth to believe that contact with the outside world will lead to eternal damnation, would suffer if placed in traditional foster care.

"If these children are kept in the custody of the state, there would have to be exceptional and innovative programmatic elements for these children and their families," he said. "The traditional foster care system would be destructive for these children."

CPS spokeswoman Marleigh Meisner said the department was pleased with the judge's ruling and believes that the children will now be safe.

It's not clear how quickly the children might be moved from the coliseum and fairgrounds where they are staying on cots into foster homes or other temporary housing, but they could be placed with family members if CPS determines the children will be safe, Meisner said.

Four women testified Friday, and all said they were free to make their own choices. They also said they would do whatever it took to get their children returned to them.

"We're a peaceful people," Lucille Nielson said. Life on their 1,700-acre gated ranch "is very peaceful. You can feel the peace when you are there. Very loving. We raise our children in a loving environment."

But the women also acknowledged that girls get married at ages younger than the state allows.

Some of the women bowed their heads when the judge issued her order to keep the children in state custody. They left the columned courthouse stoically, ignoring questions shouted by reporters.

They'll face more hearings, and some could be required to take steps to prove to Child Protective Services that they should be allowed to regain custody.

Tim Edwards, a lawyer representing four mothers, said the women would comply with the judge's orders.

"We are going to comply with the orders of the court, we're going to cooperate with CPS and their requirements and do everything within our power to turn the situation around," he said.

Texas Rangers also are investigating a Colorado woman as a "person of interest" related to calls made to a family crisis center. Police arrested Rozita Swinton, 33, on Wednesday in Colorado Springs on a misdemeanor charge of false reporting to authorities for a call she made in late February.

Authorities did not say whether a call by Swinton might be the one that triggered the raid.

But officers who searched her home found items suggesting a possible connection between Swinton and calls regarding a compound owned by FLDS in Arizona and one in Eldorado, the Texas Department of Public Safety said late Friday. The items weren't identified.

"The information, evidence and a statement obtained from Swinton by the Texas Rangers while they were in Colorado will be forwarded to state and federal prosecutors for their review and determination whether Swinton will be charged with a criminal offense," the statement said.

Swinton's whereabouts were unknown, and it wasn't known whether she had an attorney. A phone number for her in Colorado Springs was disconnected.

Authorities in Colorado confirmed Swinton has a history of making false reports.
 

cowboyeric8

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I drove by the courthouse the other day. And there is some 30 news vans there. It really is a sad deal. I'm even friends with one of the cops who is working the in the courthouse during the trials, of course he can't tell me anything.

The children are staying the San Angelo Coliseum. We have an indoor football team and they had to play in the Angelo State old basketball gym, quite impressive, impossible to kickoff. But anyway, its just a really sad deal. My church was asking for people to house lawyers because all of the hotel rooms are full.

It just seems to reflect bad on Texas and San Angelo in general (even though San Angelo has nothing to do with it). Just some weirdos.

Anyway, thats my input.
 

Passepartout

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Those kids are so messed up it will take them maybe years for them to get back to normal if ever!:(
 

sacase

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Even though I disagree with their lifestyle, part of me seriously wonders if it is within their right to do so. The mere allegataion that child abuse and sexual abuse promted a raid. Part of me says there is something seriously wrong with that. Can someone call up CPS and claim I was beating my son and CPS will take him away till they can verify that nothing happend? Isn't that almost like guilty before innocent?

Fact of the matter is we are who were are, largely because of our parents. They are teaching their kids their belief system, so of course their kids are going to have the same views as them. Just because their views are different than ours, does that make them wrong?

Out of this whole matter has there been any proven cases of child abuse or sexual abuse?

Let me say I completly disagree with their lifestyle, but isn't it within their right to live like that if they choose?
 

Shady12

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Yeah I'm in San Angelo too..crazy to drive by the courthouse and see so many news trucks. Amazing how well we've handled it..like volunteers feeding those hundreds of kids every day..I think all the 350 or whatever lawyers actually had to stay at private homes because all the hotels are booked up.
 

trickblue

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Yeagermeister;2039052 said:
Why would anyone want more than one wife? One is enough. :laugh2:

It's also not biblical. The Holy Bible clearly states in Matthew that "No man can serve two masters"... ;)
 

Hostile

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sacase;2044666 said:
Even though I disagree with their lifestyle, part of me seriously wonders if it is within their right to do so. The mere allegataion that child abuse and sexual abuse promted a raid. Part of me says there is something seriously wrong with that. Can someone call up CPS and claim I was beating my son and CPS will take him away till they can verify that nothing happend? Isn't that almost like guilty before innocent?

Fact of the matter is we are who were are, largely because of our parents. They are teaching their kids their belief system, so of course their kids are going to have the same views as them. Just because their views are different than ours, does that make them wrong?

Out of this whole matter has there been any proven cases of child abuse or sexual abuse?

Let me say I completly disagree with their lifestyle, but isn't it within their right to live like that if they choose?
Either I am completely missing the point or I am completely missing the point.

If they choose to be pedophiles because they believe girls should get pregnant at 13 and 14 we should allow it?

Have you seen the reports about what hapens to the boys when they reach marrying age? By then they've worked as slaves for rich construction contracts where they are paid little to nothing. But once they are a threat to the crops of girls they are taken away from these communities and disowned. Only a select few are allowed to stay.

It is exploitation of the worst kind. Trust me, I have seen these people. Something is wrong. Very wrong.
 

WoodysGirl

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April 23, 2008, 11:38PM
CHILDREN OF ELDORADO
Raid on compound triggered by hoax?
Calls to authorities came from phone owned by woman with a history of making false reports


By JANET ELLIOTT and GARY SCHARRER



AUSTIN — The frantic, whispered calls that triggered the removal of more than 400 children from a West Texas polygamist sect came from a phone linked to a Colorado Springs woman with a long history of making false abuse reports, according to a court document unsealed Wednesday.

Two prepaid mobile phones that were used to make calls late last month to a domestic violence shelter in San Angelo had previously been used by Rozita Swinton in calls to abuse hot lines and authorities in Colorado and Washington, the affidavit said.

Swinton "is a known repeat victim who repeatedly reports sexual abuse with the Colorado Springs Police Department," the affidavit said.

The records also revealed that the 33-year-old pleaded guilty in June 2007 to false reporting and was placed on probation for one year. She was charged last week with misdemeanor false reporting to authorities in Colorado Springs, and is being investigated by the Texas Rangers in connection with the calls that prompted the April 3 raid of the Yearning for Zion Ranch in Eldorado.

"We are still examining evidence that was seized from her residence and do not expect that investigation to be completed for a while," said Texas Department of Public Safety spokeswoman Tela Mange.

Jim Harrington, director of the Texas Civil Rights Project, said the fact the state launched the raid on what appears to have been a hoax tip without checking it out makes a "sham" out of constitutional protections against wrongful searches.

"To me, this is either gross incompetence or this is a religious vendetta," Harrington said.

In calls that began March 29 to the San Angelo shelter, the caller claimed to be Sarah Barlow who was born in January 1992. She said she was pregnant, already had an infant and was the third wife of her 49-year-old husband.

The caller tearfully whispered that she was being held at the ranch against her will and that her husband beat her so severely, a rib broke. She expressed fear for her baby and a teenage sister who might soon be subjected to a similar fate.

Based on those calls, state law enforcement and child welfare authorities obtained a search warrant to enter the compound owned by the Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, a breakaway Mormon sect that believes in polygamy for the men. Officials said they observed what they believed to be underage pregnant girls and began removing children and women from the ranch.

During days of searching, including a tense standoff before police entered the group's sacred temple, more than 400 children were taken away. They are now in state custody and being relocated to group homes around the state.

An initial arrest warrant was issued for the man named by the caller. But the man, who lives in Arizona, had been regularly reporting to his probation officer and there was no evidence he had lived at the ranch.

Randall Chapman, executive director of Texas Legal Services, said he believes state protective services "went over the bounds" but that the agency has "broad investigative authority" when it comes to allegations of child abuse or neglect.


Possible connection
Texas Rangers accompanied Colorado Springs police officers last week when they searched Swinton's apartment, where they found items indicating a possible connection between her and calls regarding the Eldorado compound.

Swinton, who works for an insurance office, is free on $10,000 bond. Her attorney, David Foley of Colorado Springs, said he could not discuss the allegations.

"There's a lot more to this than the public is getting. I think people would be surprised. Stay tuned," Foley said.

The eight-page affidavit paints a picture of a troubled woman who spent hours calling shelters pretending to be a hysterical teenager who had been sexually abused by male relatives and others. In 15 hours of calls to a Colorado Springs shelter, she claimed to be a 13-year-old named Dana who had been molested repeatedly by a local youth pastor.

Those calls prompted Colorado Springs police to look for the girl at a local high school.

In March, a shelter in Washington began getting calls from "April" about abuse by her father and uncle. The girl, however, refused to talk to law enforcement officers and ultimately said her "other personality" had gone to a safe house in Colorado. A callback number she left was linked to Swinton's home.

Meanwhile, one day after 111 older children were put on buses and sent to foster care placements around the state, child welfare authorities said Wednesday they would consider allowing the more than 40 nursing mothers that remain behind in San Angelo to remain with or near their babies.


Reacting to criticism
The assertion was a reversal of sorts for officials with the Texas Department of Family and Protective Services, who over the weekend said all children would be separated from their mothers and placed into foster care. That led to sharp criticism from the children's attorneys; and at an informal hearing on Wednesday, the judge overseeing the case, Barbara Walther, said she wanted the nursing babies to remain with their mothers.

The department has and will continue to work to keep older siblings together, though a spokesman for the department acknowledged that mix-ups occurred with the six busloads of children sent out Tuesday.

The agency found 16 residential foster home facilities that could take the children, none of which were at risk of losing their license or having it suspended, said Patrick Crimmins, a spokesman for the agency. None of the homes selected were under any kind of probation with the agency.


Some coming to area
Child Protective Services would not say when the rest of the children would be moved, but two Houston-area shelters continued preparing for them Wednesday.

When the children arrive at the Arrow Child & Family Ministries Retreat Center, just north of Porter in east Montgomery County, they will be part of a long-term care program, said Scott Lundy, vice president for foster care and residential services. The ministry is hiring 100 new staff members who will be specially trained.

"Their society is totally different. Their belief systems are different. Their diet is different. ... Nobody knows what these children are going to need," Lundy said.

The Jim H. Green Kidz Harbor in Brazoria County is preparing to house as many as 36 children. Area residents are bringing sheets, towels, toiletries and checks to the small city hall in Liverpool, said city secretary Judy Dunbar.

Reporters Renée C. Lee, Richard Stewart and Terri Langford in Houston, R.G. Ratcliffe in the Austin Bureau and Lisa Sandberg in San Angelo contributed.

janet.elliott@chron.com

gscharrer@express-news.net
 
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