Emmit Smith Vs Barry Sanders

[ABQCOWBOY]

They were better at doing some things. You are playing the coulda, shoulda, woulda game. If they had played longer than they did. If they stayed healthy. If they had not walked away from the game for an acting career or because they didn't want to get beat up any more.

Hey, look. I happen to agree that Jim Brown, had he kept playing and stayed healthy would have set records nobody would have broken. He didn't. Emmitt did.

Well, to be fair, I think you have to consider the time frame. From Brown's perspective, he may have viewed it as having done all there was to do. When he retired, all be it very early, he had already shattered the old rushing records. He had put them so far out that it took 20 years to break his record. I mean, if you look at it from that perpective, it does put a somewhat different light on it. Records are made to be broken and eventually, Emmitts record will be broken too. Until then, it's his and he's the rushing King.

 

[scottsp]

While I am partial to Deuce, Barry Sanders averaged 5.2 yards per carry for his career. I believe them BOTH to be great, but I am hardpressed to choose between them. And, to me, neither are the best runner of all-time.

Two of the greatest, still.

 

[blindzebra]

There is no way to accurately measure greatness, especially when you are comparing players from different eras.

Barry and Emmitt played in the same era, both were great but different backs.

Those differences help base a case for Emmitt.

Emmitt's style was perfect for a big OL, Barry's was not. He free lanced, danced and bounced and would have wasted the talent on Dallas' OL.

Emmitt was a better blocker and receiver.

Emmitt was a goal line hound, Barry's style was too risky for goal line, because he could cost you yards and get you FGs instead of TDs.

Barry was much more of a homerun threat, but he'd also kill drives with losses going for that homerun.

Emmitt had great games in big games, Barry was a non-factor in the playoffs.

 

[Dale]

Just as it's a blemish on Marino's career that he never won a Super Bowl, I think it's a slight blemish on Sanders' career that he, as the team's franchise player, never catapulted them as a legitimate playoff contender.

Emmitt was consistently surrounded by superior players, but there was something about him that allowed him to perform better when the stakes were high. I think that's a damn good quality of a player when discussing 'the best ever.'

Sanders was more breath taking and the better pure runner. You could easily say he was more physically skilled in my mind. But Emmitt was a guy you could rely on in any situation -- goal line, pass protection, short yardage, etc. I don't think you can say that about Sanders.

And while being more "complete" does not always mean a guy is better, Emmitt also has the statistics, playoff performances and Super Bowl wins in his favor.

I can see why a lot of people consider Barry better. He left a lot more to the imagination. He was a guy that captivated an audience like Emmitt couldn't.

But I don't see why a lot of non-Cowboys fans feel it's blasphemy to consider Emmitt better. His resume' certainly puts him on Sanders' level.

 

[LeonDixson]

Well, to be fair, I think you have to consider the time frame. From Brown's perspective, he may have viewed it as having done all there was to do. When he retired, all be it very early, he had already shattered the old rushing records. He had put them so far out that it took 20 years to break his record. I mean, if you look at it from that perpective, it does put a somewhat different light on it. Records are made to be broken and eventually, Emmitts record will be broken too. Until then, it's his and he's the rushing King.

Agreed, but who's to say Emmitts record won't be broken for another 20 years.

Like I said above, I actually think Brown would still own the record if he had kept playing and had stayed healthy. But he didn't keept playing, and if he had, would he have stayed healthy? The term "The Greatest Of all Time" shouldn't be left to subjectivity.

Jim Brown was the greatest of all time when he retired. Walter Payton surpassed him and was the greatest of all time. Now they are former greatest of all time's. Emmitt is now the greatest of all time using the only non-subjective, inarguable criteria at our disposal. The records for rushing yards and TDs.

Others have a higher YPC average than Emmitt. Others have more yards in a single season than Emmitt. Others have more all purpose TDs in a single season than Emmitt. Which one of those criteria, or others, do you use to determine the greatest if it isn't the rushing record?

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

Agreed, but who's to say Emmitts record won't be broken for another 20 years.

Like I said above, I actually think Brown would still own the record if he had kept playing and had stayed healthy. But he didn't keept playing, and if he had, would he have stayed healthy? The term "The Greatest Of all Time" shouldn't be left to subjectivity.

Jim Brown was the greatest of all time when he retired. Walter Payton surpassed him and was the greatest of all time. Now they are former greatest of all time's. Emmitt is now the greatest of all time using the only non-subjective, inarguable criteria at our disposal. The records for rushing yards and TDs.

Others have a higher YPC average than Emmitt. Others have more yards in a single season than Emmitt. Others have more all purpose TDs in a single season than Emmitt. Which one of those criteria, or others, do you use to determine the greatest if it isn't the rushing record?

I think it's gotta be your eyes. There is very little question in my mind that Jim Brown was the best. That is totally opinion. There is no fact that I can point out to prove this beyond a shadow of a doubt. As I said earlier, it's Emmitts record now and eventually, it will be broken. How long will it take? I don't know. Right now, LaDainian is exactly 200 yards ahead of Emmitt's pace at the same times in there careers. Who can say if that will continue. Until then, it's Emmitts time. Simple as that.

 

[Kilyin]

This thread makes me wanna :jerk:

 

[LeonDixson]

This thread makes me wanna :jerk:

Getting a woody huh? :

 

[blindzebra]

Getting a woody huh? :

What gets me going is I can see a bit of both Barry and Emmitt in Julius Jones.

 

[Banned_n_austin]

Can't do it. I believe Emmitt was the more complete back but I believe Barry was the better runner. Not sure you can prove the point that Emmitt was a better runner then Barry.

I agree ABQ ... Sanders was a better runner and had a worse line. Put Barry Sanders behind Dallas' line and you've got a monster of a runner that is suspect at pass protection.

But who knows what Emmitt would have done behind Detroits line ... surely, it'd be somewhere between what he did in Dallas and what he did in Arizona.

I am a much bigger Emmitt Smith fan now that he is retired though.

 

[dargonking999]

Let me tell you the differnce between Barry and Emitt to end all of this.

Emmitt came out in the second half of a Giants game with a seperated shoulder anddint run away from people dance around and try and run aroundpeople to the endzone. HE simply ran his game right up the gut, and charged from that many more yards. Barry was a great RUNNER, but Emmitt was a better FOOTBALL player.

 

[blindzebra]

I agree ABQ ... Sanders was a better runner and had a worse line. Put Barry Sanders behind Dallas' line and you've got a monster of a runner that is suspect at pass protection.

But who knows what Emmitt would have done behind Detroits line ... surely, it'd be somewhere between what he did in Dallas and what he did in Arizona.

I am a much bigger Emmitt Smith fan now that he is retired though.

Think back to that MNF game where he put 190 yards on us and the Dallas DL spent the entire game in the Lion's back field.

Barry would have wasted the talent of the Dallas OL, he did not look for holes and explode, he danced, bounced, reversed field and than exploded. With Barry the best block was a missed block and a pick when the defender over pursued and Barry changed direction.

 

[LeonDixson]

What gets me going is I can see a bit of both Barry and Emmitt in Julius Jones.

Amen to that, BZ.

 

[LeonDixson]

I think it's gotta be your eyes. There is very little question in my mind that Jim Brown was the best. That is totally opinion. There is no fact that I can point out to prove this beyond a shadow of a doubt. As I said earlier, it's Emmitts record now and eventually, it will be broken. How long will it take? I don't know. Right now, LaDainian is exactly 200 yards ahead of Emmitt's pace at the same times in there careers. Who can say if that will continue. Until then, it's Emmitts time. Simple as that.

That's the most subjective criteria of all. The problem with basing it on subjectivity is that beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

But I don't argue that Brown was the best of his era at a minimum. Now, LaDainian is a special back. He has accomplished a lot on a team that was very bad until last year.

In the end it doesn't matter. I don't think I've ever seen anyone on a forum like this say "wow, your argument has convinced me I'm wrong! And I dang sure aint gonna be the first.

 

[Nerm]

A few points:

Barry was taken out of the game in running situations. That wasn't his line's fault, because the linemen stayed in. There is a reason that every OC and HC that Barry had in the pros wanted Barry out of the game in running situations and it wasn't his OL. How can a RUNNING back be considered the best ever if he has to be taken out of the game in RUNNING situations? Can you imagine someone making the argument that a QB or WR was the best ever... but you don’t want them in the game in passing situations...


Brown dominated his era more than any other RB then or now. However, he dominated against slower, smaller, weaker players. Emmitt never dominated like Brown but he didn’t get to play against 240 pound DLs, and LBs who were 210 pounds and ran 5.1 40s. Brown could have played in today’s NFL, and been very good. However, competition does matter. He would have been much less dominant had he played in the 90’s. Plus, he was a quitter. Emmitt’s longevity and desire to play the game is a plus, not a minus.


If longevity and long term production didn’t matter, I’ll take Bo Jackson over any back in NFL history.

In the end it is a numbers game. If you want to know who is better take a look at the scoreboard. The rest is just opinion.

 

[Bizwah]

This has always been a fun debate.

People that support Sanders try to make it sound like Barry had five high schoolers on the OL, Adam Sandler at QB, and a bunch of other no names on offense. People want to say that he was the only weapon the Lions had.

This is untrue. Sanders had two perinnial Pro-Bowl OL, Glover and Brown. He had Herman Moore, Brett Perriman, and Johnny Morton taking the pressure off at WR. Let's not forget that Scott Mitchell passed for over 4,000 yards.

I also hear the argument that if Barry had Emmitt's line, then Barry would've run for 2,000 yards every year........ANYONE could run for 1500 yards with our OL.

Well, first of all if anyone could run behind our line, then why didn't Derrick Lassic, Curvin Richards, Lincoln Coleman, or Sherman Williams at least hold the fort when Emmitt was out?

I disagree that Barry would put up any bigger numbers behind our line than the one he had at Detroit. Barry was creative as a runner......he was looking to create. I think he would've done the same dancing behind our line.

But all this arguing really doesn't matter. If I ran the Cowboys in the early 90s, and I was offered Barry Sanders for Emmitt Smith straight up, I wouldn't take the deal.

I don't know of any Cowboy fan that would. Why? Emmitt lead a team to three Super Bowls in five seasons. Sanders never could do this. Emmitt was a winner. Emmitt was driven to be the best. And although I love Barry's humility and attitude......I'm not sure that's what's best for a team leader.

People dog on Emmitt for his wanting Payton's record......for wanting rushing titles....That is what made him great. He wanted to be the best. He was driven by the goals.

I guess what I'm trying to say is.........Barry may be the better runner (although, that point can be argued) and I'd choose him if I wanted to sell tickets.....but Emmitt is the one I'd choose every time for my team if I wanted to win Super Bowls.

 

[ravidubey]

In these discussions you always hear "complete back", "pure runner", and "better OL", but it comes down to Emmitt was a champion, Barry was not.

Emmitt went over 100 yards time and again in the playoffs. Barry got shut down repeatedly in the playoffs and even finished one playoff game with negative yards rushing. @#!$ing INEXCUSIBLE!
Barry:
More Agility
More Elusiveness
Better Balance
More Speed
Homerun Hitter and receiver
Pro Bowler and All Pro
A crapshoot against the best competition

Emmitt:
More power
More durability
Better Vision
Better blocker and pass protector
Chain Mover, Receiver, Homerun Hitter, and TD scorer
Pro Bowler, All Pro, NFL and Superbowl MVP
Better than the best competition

In other words, Barry was the better entertainer and Emmitt was the better football player.

 

[Banned_n_austin]

Think back to that MNF game where he put 190 yards on us and the Dallas DL spent the entire game in the Lion's back field.

Barry would have wasted the talent of the Dallas OL, he did not look for holes and explode, he danced, bounced, reversed field and than exploded. With Barry the best block was a missed block and a pick when the defender over pursued and Barry changed direction.

Eh ... I see your point, but I'm not surprised that we disagree a little ... I think the reason he did so much dancing is because his line sucked ... sure he made mistakes ... but every back looks for blocks though ... but he could turn a missed block into something that was nothing.

I read CR's opinion and I just don't agree ... but that's alright, we don't have to worry about it really, neither player is playing anymore and hindsight is 20/20.

 

[Billy Bullocks]

Emmitt is probably the most complete back in the history of the NFL. Barry is probably the best pure runner of all time. To do what Barry did at this level is no light task.

The argument about their offensive lines is dumb in my oppinion, because most of the games I saw, Barry would be dancing around anyway, regardless of where the hole was.

Emmitt was in there by the goal line, on 3rd and short, and on most 3rd downs. Barry, if my memory serves me right, was a bad blocker, and not the greates WR out of the backfield. Emmitt was good at both of these, therefor making him a mroe complete back. Regardless of how many yards Barry had left in his legs when he retired, he didn't have the heart and drive Emmitt had. The reason none of us probably will see that record broken in our lifetime, most RB's, as good as they may be, are not able to sustain a career for 10+ seasons. Look at the Bus and C-Mart, they may be great players, but they defenitely don't have enough left to make a run at the record.


Overall, both guys should not be excluded from any top 5, probably evne top 3 running backs of all time list. These guys could both play.

 

[blindzebra]

Eh ... I see your point, but I'm not surprised that we disagree a little ... I think the reason he did so much dancing is because his line sucked ... sure he made mistakes ... but every back looks for blocks though ... but he could turn a missed block into something that was nothing.

I read CR's opinion and I just don't agree ... but that's alright, we don't have to worry about it really, neither player is playing anymore and hindsight is 20/20.

Also go back to some of his games against the Vikings and GB, when they completely shut him down by not getting up the field. The key was if you beat your blocker you'd get killed by over pursuit, you held your lane and played contain and he'd come to you.

That is why I think the OL argument does not hold water.

What would have been really interesting is what would have happened if Switzer had wanted to run the wish bone and Dallas would have traded Aikman and Irvin to Detroit for Ware and Sanders?