Empty backfield

[Bleu Star]

who else thinks empty backfield is a bad idea by completely taking out zeke as a running threat?

*raising hand*

 

[xwalker]

You're talking about 10 personnel.

It typically forces the defense into an undersized dime package, which is good to have a surprise run against every now and then-- especially if you have a guy like Dak who can also carry the ball.

In 2016, we ran that formation on 1% of plays.

10 is 1 RB, zero TEs

The Cowboys never use zero TEs.

They run empty from S01 or S11 with the RB lined up as a WR.

 

[xwalker]

who else thinks empty backfield is a bad idea by completely taking out zeke as a running threat?

Stats would help. I think they've had decent success in the Empty formation.

They often do it with the RB lined up as a WR. That can expose LBs in coverage.

 

[Nova]

10 is 1 RB, zero TEs

The Cowboys never use zero TEs.

They run empty from S01 or S11 with the RB lined up as a WR.

Right, I was replying to someone that seemed to be suggesting a 4 wide, single tailback set as an better alternative to empty sets.

But I may have misunderstood him.

 

[visionary]

who else thinks empty backfield is a bad idea by completely taking out zeke as a running threat?

When you have one of the best offensive weapons in football, the best option is to take him out esp on 3rd downs

This is even more true when your QB struggles reading defenses and throwing into tight windows

Signed
Jason Garrett (the moron)

 

[sean10mm]

Empty backfield can be fine if you have lots of shifty receivers and receiving backs that can make a cut towards the first down marker before the defense can react.

Notice how this doesn't really describe the 2017 Cowboys though.

 

[Jake]

I remember hearing someone say (ex coach) that this shows you when a defense fears the QB. If a draw plays work.

So there's your answer .

It snowed in my town today.

I blame Dak.

 

[Nova]

Stats would help. I think they've had decent success in the Empty formation.

They often do it with the RB lined up as a WR. That can expose LBs in coverage.

We'll probably get stats for 2017 later, but in 2016 S11- empty formation averaged 6.155 Yards Per Pass vs S11 (no empty) 6.409 YPP & 10.315 YPP in just 11 (under center, with double the sample size of S11 empty).

 

[xwalker]

We'll probably get stats for 2017 later, but in 2016 S11- empty formation averaged 6.155 Yards Per Pass vs S11 (no empty) 6.409 YPP & 10.315 YPP in just 11 (under center, with double the sample size of S11 empty).

So S11 empty/not-empty about the same.

 

[waldoputty]

We'll probably get stats for 2017 later, but in 2016 S11- empty formation averaged 6.155 Yards Per Pass vs S11 (no empty) 6.409 YPP & 10.315 YPP in just 11 (under center, with double the sample size of S11 empty).

the offense was more effective in 2016.
what i would care more about is the variance rather than the mean.

 

[Nova]

So S11 empty/not-empty about the same.

Roughly yeah.

It's worth noting that S11 was run about 300 times while S11e was ran just under 60.

 

[Nova]

the offense was more effective in 2016.
what i would care about is the variance rather than the mean.

Yeah me as well. But unfortunately I don't know if those stats exist.

We'd have to go back and log them.

Got the numbers I'm referencing from Sturm.

 

[Wolfpack]

My biggest problem is how easy it is to call the play via what formation they are in. Look at Sturms blog and it shows how simple this offense is to predict.

 

[Ranching]

who else thinks empty backfield is a bad idea by completely taking out zeke as a running threat?

Me!

 

[jday]

who else thinks empty backfield is a bad idea by completely taking out zeke as a running threat?

I don't have much of an issue with them running an empty set; it is great way for them to create mismatches and push the ball down the field...when it's working. When it's not working, it obviously looks idiotic. My issue with running the empty set is when they do it on 3rd and short. Why? Don't we want the defense to have to account for both run and pass? If we are in an empty set, they then only have to account for Dak...which is better than nothing, I guess, but still, I thought it was crazy. Then I watched as they scored twice from that same formation in the same game in that same 3rd and short situation. So I guess I don't know everything, eh?

 

[Yakuza Rich]

I don't mind it if it works. Like it worked last year and in 2014.

But, when it's not working it's counterproductive because you're asking a lot from the offense to pull off a 5-10 yard pass play.




YR

 

[waldoputty]

I don't have much of an issue with them running an empty set; it is great way for them to create mismatches and push the ball down the field...when it's working. When it's not working, it obviously looks idiotic. My issue with running the empty set is when they do it on 3rd and short. Why? Don't we want the defense to have to account for both run and pass? If we are in an empty set, they then only have to account for Dak...which is better than nothing, I guess, but still, I thought it was crazy. Then I watched as they scored twice from that same formation in the same game in that same 3rd and short situation. So I guess I don't know everything, eh?

does not make any intuitive sense on 3rd and short. dak can rush also but the 2 of them in the same backfield means the running can go in opposite directions at the 'handoff'.

what would be interesting is having zeke run a jet sweep

 

[DFWJC]

With our line and Zeke, youre just helping the defense going empty backfield.
Sure, if its 3rd and 20. But not normally.

 

[jday]

does not make any intuitive sense on 3rd and short. dak can rush also but the 2 of them in the same backfield means the running can go in opposite directions at the 'handoff'.

what would be interesting is having zeke run a jet sweep

No, I'm with you. It doesn't make sense. But at the same time if they make it work, positive results are hard to work against.

And I'm with you. Seeing Zeke slide to the slot ostensibly just for Dak to check coverage's and then bring him back in motion only to hand the ball off would probably be one of many innovations they could add.

 

[CowboyRoy]

Guarantee you that Brady, Rodgers, Romo, Roethlisberger, Stafford, Luck, Cousins, Winston, Goff and Wentz would have good stats with that receiving core and our offensive line. I guarantee it.

On that note, what 4 WRs would you give Dak so that he could be a good empty set QB?

You cant guarantee anything. Luck isnt playing and neither is Romo.