Escobar will never replace Witten

T-RO

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RoyTheHammer;5068870 said:
:confused:

I shouldn't even ask, but what in the blue hell is the point of all this?

Did someone say we're cutting Jason Witten now that we got Escobar?


News flash for you: We just spent our second round pick (the 47th overall) on a tight end. That's a PREMIUM selection.

There are already those (Rafael Vela) who are talking about Escobar taking over Witten's role as soon as 2014 (projecting that Witten will be a salary cap casualty).

If the Cowboys didn't value Escobar as a guy who could take over the #1 tight end role soon...the Rally Blanch selection is a complete head-scratcher.

So I'm here to ask: was he worth that gem of a pick? The early word is that he was no blocker at the college level, so my contention is that if Escobar isn't ELITE as a receiving threat...then this will go down as just another case of Jerry Jones burping away a top draft selection.
 

CATCH17

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Escobar has upside.

The kid went to San Diego State and left early. He was also considered the best receiver in this draft.


By all accounts everyone says he plays faster than he was timed.


I think we need to wait and see this guy live before we say he is some slow lethargic tight end.
 

big dog cowboy

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T-RO;5068871 said:
I have little hope of him having much "wiggle."

That is the criteria we judge TE's by now? How much wiggle they do or don't have?
 

T-RO

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big dog cowboy;5068888 said:
That is the criteria we judge TE's by now? How much wiggle they do or don't have?

"Wiggle" was not my language, nor my criteria, nor my hope. I was responding to another poster's comment.
 

big dog cowboy

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T-RO;5068882 said:
my contention is that if Escobar isn't ELITE as a receiving threat...then this will go down as just another case of Jerry Jones burping away a top draft selection.

Did you read anything about this guy or you just bashing this pick because we drafted a TE in the 2nd round?

I'll try to help:

System

Escobar lined up all over the formation at San Diego State. He was an inline tight end, slot receiver, and H-back, sometimes changing his position before the snap.

Release

Escobar gets up to speed quickly with a good burst out of his stance. He even gets a good launch out of a three-point stance. Cushion from linebackers and safeties gets eaten up right away when Escobar rips the seam.

Routes

Escobar has an excellent throttle-down and break in his routes and finds lots of soft spots in zone defenses with these abilities. He can get up the field quickly, but lacks a second gear to separate downfield. Still, with his height and ball skills, he can be a viable target in tight coverage.

Hands

Escobar is a natural hands catcher who almost never lets the ball get into his body. He can fluidly extend and go high for a catch as easily as he can get low to snag an errant pass. Escobar might have the best hands of any tight end in this class. He'll gain the trust of his quarterback very quickly.

Ball Skills

Adjusting to the ball in flight is a routine exercise for Escobar. He can go high, low, or twist around to make his effective catch radius as big as any player in this class at tight end, and all but a few wide receivers. Escobar doesn't quite maximize his ability here, as he lacks a "my ball mentality" and does not attack the ball upon arrival.

Or:

http://www.nationalfootballpost.com/...l&player=44183


SUMMARY - Gavin Escobar comes into the NFL at a perfect time for his set of skills. Teams are using the hybrid tight end to stretch the field with their length, long arms and ability to wall off defenders because of the size of their bodies.
Escobar brings all of these skills to the NFL table and more as he has great hands and catches everything that is thrown at him. He consistently catches the ball away from his body, making it more difficult for defenses to cover him. He shows explosion in and out of his breaks, and he eats up cushion quickly when lined up from the slot. Linebackers can't stay with him because of his movement ability, and cornerbacks can't stay with him because of his size. His ability to run after the catch is truly underrated because he can move laterally and avoid the tackler, and then run into open space. He consistently can locate the ball, make an adjustment with his body and make the catch. This might be Escobar's best trait, and his biggest asset going forward. He makes tough catches look easy and will make a quarterback more accurate with his huge catching radius. He has incredible hands, and makes contested catches all over the field. Escobar is going to present significant challenges to NFL defenses because of his ability to play jump ball in the red zone and down the seam. If he can improve in the blocking area, he will be the complete package and a rock star in the NFL. He warrants consideration in the middle of Round 1, and should be in consideration to be the first tight end off the board in April.
 

Hoofbite

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I don't think you're breaking ground here by saying that a player will never live up to a HOF career.

Odds are, most won't.
 

TheCount

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CATCH17;5068886 said:
Escobar has upside.

The kid went to San Diego State and left early. He was also considered the best receiver in this draft.


By all accounts everyone says he plays faster than he was timed.


I think we need to wait and see this guy live before we say he is some slow lethargic tight end.

Escobar was considered the best receiver in the draft? Like what, hand catcher or something?
 

AbeBeta

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jjktkk;5068775 said:
I think the OP is confusing the role Esobar will have. Kinda asking a awful lot for a TE prospect to replace a future Hofer. Esobar is nothing but a nice TE prospect, whose forte is catching the ball and because of his size, creating mismatches in the passing game.

Mismatches is right. He's going to be in an awesome position. He'll be on the field with Austin, Witten, and Dez in for a good chunk of our offensive sets. A guy who is LBs are going to have trouble covering on the field with that group? Should be exciting.
 

RoyTheHammer

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T-RO;5068882 said:
News flash for you: We just spent our second round pick (the 47th overall) on a tight end. That's a PREMIUM selection.

There are already those (Rafael Vela) who are talking about Escobar taking over Witten's role as soon as 2014 (projecting that Witten will be a salary cap casualty).

If the Cowboys didn't value Escobar as a guy who could take over the #1 tight end role soon...the Rally Blanch selection is a complete head-scratcher.

So I'm here to ask: was he worth that gem of a pick? The early word is that he was no blocker at the college level, so my contention is that if Escobar isn't ELITE as a receiving threat...then this will go down as just another case of Jerry Jones burping away a top draft selection.

News flash for you:

We drafted a second round TE before.. and that wasn't to take over for Witten either.

Also, no one in the organization has said anything close to implying that Escobar was taken to replace Witten in any fashion whatsoever.

Also, you must have missed the numerous reports about us wanting to run the same offense as the Pats, which includes a heavy amount of 2 TE sets.


In conclusion.. the OP was pointless and a waste of time. Sorry.
 

Rack

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jobberone;5068755 said:
Apples to oranges. Witten is a typical TE although his blocking has never been anything to write home about.

Witten has been one of the best starting blocking TE's in the NFL for years.

Sure there's better blockers out there - backups that are there JUST for their blocking. But of all the STARTING TE's in the NFL, not many can block better than Witten.
 

RoyTheHammer

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T-RO;5068871 said:
I have little hope of him having much "wiggle."

Who cares about his wiggle? Witten has no wiggle at all, and how'd he do last year?

Run the route and catch the ball.. Tony likes this kid already.
 

T-RO

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RoyTheHammer;5068920 said:
News flash for you:

We drafted a second round TE before.. and that wasn't to take over for Witten either.

Bennett was a also a horrible draft selection. You've simply got to get more value for a #2 pick! That's the essence of this thread and I appreciate you feeding its fire, even as you fail to be warmed by it and deny its light.
 

T-RO

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Hoofbite;5068900 said:
I don't think you're breaking ground here by saying that a player will never live up to a HOF career.

Odds are, most won't.


I'm not talking about Escobar's ability to repeat a HOF career. Of course not.

I'm talking about Escobar's ability to take over as #1 tight end as Witten moves into the sunset of his career.
 

RoyTheHammer

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T-RO;5068935 said:
Bennett was a also a horrible draft selection. You've simply got to get more value for a #2 pick! That's the essence of this thread and I appreciate you feeding its fire, even as you fail to be warmed by it and deny its light.

I don't think he was a horrible selection at all. Even though we never chose to utilize his pass catching ability, he did give us the best blocking TE in the league for years.. even more important with the garbage OL we had.

Bennett aside though, the "essence" of this thread, as you'd like to put it apparently, is that you took this pick thinking we were trying to replace Witten.. which is a notion that is simply.. wrong. For all the reasons i lised in the other post.
 

jobberone

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Rack Bauer;5068922 said:
Witten has been one of the best starting blocking TE's in the NFL for years.

Sure there's better blockers out there - backups that are there JUST for their blocking. But of all the STARTING TE's in the NFL, not many can block better than Witten.

We'll just have to agree to disagree here. I don't even think Witten is average at blocking. He does well enough at times but is too inconsistent. He has trouble helping his tackle too often. He slides off too often as well. But he is still one of the best TEs around now and historically and will likely end up in the HOF. Having said that I think he won't have any problem blocking better than Escobar. I'm not sure you caught the point I was making about the difference between a hybrid and today's traditional TE.
 

jobberone

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T-RO;5068935 said:
Bennett was a also a horrible draft selection. You've simply got to get more value for a #2 pick! That's the essence of this thread and I appreciate you feeding its fire, even as you fail to be warmed by it and deny its light.

Most thought Bennett was going to be dynamite. He just never gained Tony's trust. He is one of the best inline blocking TEs in the league though which is something to appreciate. He may still take off just not as a Cowboy.
 

T-RO

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RoyTheHammer;5068943 said:
I don't think he was a horrible selection at all. Even though we never chose to utilize his pass catching ability, he did give us the best blocking TE in the league for years.. even more important with the garbage OL we had.

Bennett aside though, the "essence" of this thread, as you'd like to put it apparently, is that you took this pick thinking we were trying to replace Witten.. which is a notion that is simply.. wrong. For all the reasons i lised in the other post.


A part time "blocking tight end" is what you draft in the 5th round or later. That you fail to understand that Bennett was a gross disappointment (bust) and what you regard as #2 round pick value...is telling.
 

T-RO

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jobberone;5068950 said:
Most thought Bennett was going to be dynamite. He just never gained Tony's trust.

Bennett has already conceded and almost apologized for under-performing with the Cowboys. It's hardly an issue limited to Romo's trust.

He was an overgrown 14-year old kid trying to play a man's sport.

I never doubted his blocking, however.
 

RoyTheHammer

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T-RO;5068962 said:
A part time "blocking tight end" is what you draft in the 5th round or later. That you fail to understand that Bennett was a gross disappointment (bust) and what you regard as #2 round pick value...is telling.

The fact that we chose to make him a part time player isn't really up to him. He's a starting caliber TE who is the best blocking TE in the league. I don't have a problem taking a player like that in the 2nd.

What's "telling" is that you took this pick of Escobar to be something completely opposite from what it actually was, despite all the evidence and reporting contrary to your belief.

Anyway.. maybe eventually, you'll allow yourself to see why we really drafted him. Until then, have fun being miserable over it..
 
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