Esfandiari wins $18M WSOP event

[CowboyMcCoy]

I'll tell you why I don't like Phil Helmuth even though he is a great poker player. He doesn't respect the game. Phil doesn't believe anyone should ever bluff him. Phil believes the dealers cost him hands. Phil thinks online poker players aren't learning the game. Phil is never at fault for being outplayed.

I saw footage one time of him going heads up with Tom Dwan. Dwan had pocket 10s. That is a great hand in head's up. Phil had bullets.

Dwan is an Internet player and he plays aggressive. If you play Phil aggressive he folds a lot unless he actually has a hand. Dwan did well against him head to head.

So, pocket 10s and Dwan goes all in head to head. Phil called him immediately. Then because Dwan got a bad beat third 10 Phil rants that Dwan doesn't know what he is doing.

The man worked him, but he doesn't know what he is doing? He has won millions online, but doesn't know what he is doing.

Phil says he would never go more than $3000 on a pair of 10s head to head? I don't believe that for a minute, pocket 10s is a good hand pre flop especially and head to head it is even better. Dwan raises, which is smart, and Phil raises back. He should know the Internet players are aggressive, especially if they have a hand. 10's is a hand. Even pre flop. Yes, he had the nuts.

But see if Phill plays a pair of 10s it is brilliant. This kid played them and it was bad poker?

No, Dwan knows Phil gets tentative if he gets pushed. So he pushed him early and broke him quick. I call that good poker. Yes, he sucked out hitting the third 10. He knew it. He was going to apologize for the bad beat. But he did nothing at all wrong.

What I don't get is why Phil can't respect someone bluffing him. That is great poker when you can bluff someone off the better hand.

Pocket 10s isn't a great hand, imo, unless you catch a 10 on the flop.

 

[BigStar]

Cowboy McCoy,

Heads up poker is a whole different game. To be honest, Dwan would be justified to "race" with any pair he feel is against two high cards. In this case, Hellmuth had aces and had him dominated. With the structure of the Heads Up Tournament on NBC you are better off doubling up or finishing off your first and second opponents with aggressive strategy, or else you will just simply wait for cards and be a nit and raise in obvious positions. This will put you in a "grind" tournament when the blinds are structured to make you play aggressively, "Who wants to sit around watching players fold two and three bets to each other for 10 and 15 min until a player shows up with a three bet call or re-raise all in?"

Pocket 10's in a 8-9 game table is not a "great hand" but definitely worth raising pre-flop and calling any bet that isn't too substantial too justify the pot odds. After that, you gotta go with your pre flop feel and feel if his betting patterns reflect an over pair or missed high cards. If he bets big on the flop, some times it's best to look him up. see if he checks to you on the turn, because he either has it or you imply lose the minimal by simply checking behind him. On the river, if there was a missed draw, they usually bet around half the pot to make you think they were there the whole time, but don't want to risk a pot size bet to prove it. Call them down with whatever pair you have (hopefully)...most of my money in AC.

 

[Rogah]

I never really got into poker.

There was a stint during undergrad where it was the thing to do but sitting at a table for hours on end for a few bucks isn't exactly entertainment at it's finest.

+1. It really is a phenomenally slow, boring game. I'd rather play craps and have fun.

 

[cowboy_ron]

I'll tell you why I don't like Phil Helmuth even though he is a great poker player. He doesn't respect the game. Phil doesn't believe anyone should ever bluff him. Phil believes the dealers cost him hands. Phil thinks online poker players aren't learning the game. Phil is never at fault for being outplayed.

I saw footage one time of him going heads up with Tom Dwan. Dwan had pocket 10s. That is a great hand in head's up. Phil had bullets.

Dwan is an Internet player and he plays aggressive. If you play Phil aggressive he folds a lot unless he actually has a hand. Dwan did well against him head to head.

So, pocket 10s and Dwan goes all in head to head. Phil called him immediately. Then because Dwan got a bad beat third 10 Phil rants that Dwan doesn't know what he is doing.

The man worked him, but he doesn't know what he is doing? He has won millions online, but doesn't know what he is doing.

Phil says he would never go more than $3000 on a pair of 10s head to head? I don't believe that for a minute, pocket 10s is a good hand pre flop especially and head to head it is even better. Dwan raises, which is smart, and Phil raises back. He should know the Internet players are aggressive, especially if they have a hand. 10's is a hand. Even pre flop. Yes, he had the nuts.

But see if Phill plays a pair of 10s it is brilliant. This kid played them and it was bad poker?

No, Dwan knows Phil gets tentative if he gets pushed. So he pushed him early and broke him quick. I call that good poker. Yes, he sucked out hitting the third 10. He knew it. He was going to apologize for the bad beat. But he did nothing at all wrong.

What I don't get is why Phil can't respect someone bluffing him. That is great poker when you can bluff someone off the better hand.

I just got in and glad I signed on before taking a dip and going to bed.....lol, yea, Phil's a trip...he's known as poker brat because he pretty much is...he was born into a wealthy family and has been successful in poker so he's just been spoiled his whole life.....everybody just teases him and accepts him for what he is.........BTW, Phil did pick up bracelet #12 a couple of weeks ago, so he's not as done as many of us thought.

IMO, the two best players going are Ivey and Dwan, with me giving the slight nod to Ivey, who by the way is also a super nice guy.

Dwan, on the other hand is the best of the new breed of young super aggressive players.....no one that I know of says " man am I looking forward to playing Dwan"...he's a dangerous player that is hard to get a read on.

 

[big dog cowboy]

Phil did pick up bracelet #12 a couple of weeks ago, so he's not as done as many of us thought.

I've got to catch this on TV just to see his reaction.

 

[wittenacious]

I've continued checking back, reading the posts in this thread since starting it, but just sorta been staying out of the way since early on. Didn't really expect the thread would have any legs when I posted the WSOP news, beyond maybe getting to post back-n-forth with Ron for a bit.

Love all the insight and opinions that keep coming, though. I was aware coming in that Ron knows what he's doing — galaxies beyond my beginner level of poker expertise — but I'm seeing so many others here are various levels of poker players too. All good stuff.

I had no idea how many Zoner poker players and poker fans there might be. Quite a few, as it turns out. Should not have surprised me in the least. This IS CowboysZone after all.

 

[Hostile]

Pocket 10s isn't a great hand, imo, unless you catch a 10 on the flop.

I'll tell you what, if we play 7 hands. I get pocket 10's each time. You get the luck of the draw. I will beat you more often than you will beat me. The only advantage you have in that scenario is you know what I have, but I don't know what you have. If we play cards up and I can see your hole cards, I win 4 or 5 hands easy.

In heads up poker a pocket pair of any kind is a good hand. I don't for one minute believe Helmuth would never bet over $3000 early in a match on pocket 10's. I'd bet he has played that hundreds of times in his life and bet more than $3000.

Dwan sucked out. He even admitted that. But to sit there, after the fact, and act like Dwan played badly is disrespecting the game in my opinion, and that is just one example of what I mean with Helmuth.

He doesn't believe anyone should bluff him. I am sorry, that is ignorant. The bluff is a huge part of poker. I've seen him lose his mind over a guy betting with Q-10 against his pocket 8s. So if pocket 10s is bad, why isn't pocket 8s bad? Because it is Helmuth. He thinks he plays brilliantly and other people don't.

The turn card in that hand was an 8. It gave Helmuth a set, but it gave the other guy a straight. There was nothing in the way the other guy played his hand that was wrong, and Helmuth's blow up was disgusting. He constantly is upset and talks about how something is not poker. Like on poker after dark when he was heads up against Annie Duke and Gus Hansen and a couple of others were talking. He loses his mind and starts saying how them talking is not poker. But he talks while others are trying to play their hands. And guess what, the little tantrums when someone beats you, that isn't poker. That is pure selfish nonsense.

You want me to believe Helmuth has never given someone a bad beat? I don't believe that. If you play poker you suck out and you get sucked out. But if he delivers a bad beat you can bet he would whine and cry like a baby if someone were to blow up at him, call him an idiot or a donkey and blast the way he played his hand.

The thing that bothers me is he is so predictable I think I could play him. He rarely plays rags. If you push him a lot, he will often fold. I believe you can bluff Phil Helmuth off a good hand by aggression. The fact of the matter is sometimes the other guy has better cards in the hole. That's poker.

When I play, and it isn't very often, I play my cards. I would not be playing Phil Helmuth. He's a great player. No doubt about it. He knows things I don't. No doubt about it. But I know one thing he apparently doesn't. The bluff is one of the greatest poker plays in the world. That is why I don't respect him.

 

[Hostile]

I just got in and glad I signed on before taking a dip and going to bed.....lol, yea, Phil's a trip...he's known as poker brat because he pretty much is...he was born into a wealthy family and has been successful in poker so he's just been spoiled his whole life.....everybody just teases him and accepts him for what he is.........BTW, Phil did pick up bracelet #12 a couple of weeks ago, so he's not as done as many of us thought.

IMO, the two best players going are Ivey and Dwan, with me giving the slight nod to Ivey, who by the way is also a super nice guy.

Dwan, on the other hand is the best of the new breed of young super aggressive players.....no one that I know of says " man am I looking forward to playing Dwan"...he's a dangerous player that is hard to get a read on.

The thing I like about Dwan is his aggression. Now, I do agree with Phil that most players who are aggressive all the time are going to let their aggression trap them and they are going to lose a lot of money due to over aggressive play at some point.

But Phil seems to think this equals bankruptcy. As if they have every penny they have riding on this tournament and should therefore be conservative. I do think the Internet, and playing for free has made some people more aggressive than good. But I also believe that those who learned the game prior to the Internet play cautious and aggression does push them off hands.

I think a lot of aggressive players know they can push people off hands, so they do. That is poker.

Dwan impresses me for a couple of reasons. He did not learn that stoic, can't be read expression online. You don't need to be stoic and unreadable online. So he obviously studies the game a bit too. I rarely see him actually playing horrible. Anyone can make a bad read and play a bad hand. Except Helmuth of course. But more often than not he plays his hands very well.

I agree on him and Ivey being the best out there right now. Phil winning a 12th is news to me, so thanks for that. I am not saying he isn't a great player. I am saying he is not as good as Ivey or Dwan. I don't think he is as good as Negreanu. I don't think he is as good as quite a few players. I'd take Annie Duke over him more often than not because I think she frustrates him and makes him play badly.

 

[FloridaRob]

the million dollar buy in for the tournament Esfandeari won is what got me. I just don't see these guys having that kind of bank roll where they can lose a million dollars without serious outside investments. Do the sponsors for these guys buy them in. I know that Guy Laliberte can afford it but he is not a normal poker player owning Cirque Du Solei.

As far as online poker, I have not played that in years. With the government crackdown I did not know that you could even play for money online anymore. Why would anyone want to put their money online now with the possiblity you would not get it back.

BigStar, I like Ivey, I remember the horrendous beating he took from Moneymaker in the WSOP where Ivey did everything he could to protect a set he flopped and Moneymaker made a stupid call and hit two running cards to beat him. Ivey never flinched. I would have been screaming at someone. The guy is cool.

 

[Hostile]

BigStar, I like Ivey, I remember the horrendous beating he took from Moneymaker in the WSOP where Ivey did everything he could to protect a set he flopped and Moneymaker made a stupid call and hit two running cards to beat him. Ivey never flinched. I would have been screaming at someone. The guy is cool.

That is exactly the moment when I considered Ivey the best in the world. As much as I admire Negreanu and his reads, it is Ivey's unflappable demeanor that sets him apart as a consummate pro.

 

[cowboy_ron]

The thing I like about Dwan is his aggression. Now, I do agree with Phil that most players who are aggressive all the time are going to let their aggression trap them and they are going to lose a lot of money due to over aggressive play at some point.

But Phil seems to think this equals bankruptcy. As if they have every penny they have riding on this tournament and should therefore be conservative. I do think the Internet, and playing for free has made some people more aggressive than good. But I also believe that those who learned the game prior to the Internet play cautious and aggression does push them off hands.

I think a lot of aggressive players know they can push people off hands, so they do. That is poker.

Dwan impresses me for a couple of reasons. He did not learn that stoic, can't be read expression online. You don't need to be stoic and unreadable online. So he obviously studies the game a bit too. I rarely see him actually playing horrible. Anyone can make a bad read and play a bad hand. Except Helmuth of course. But more often than not he plays his hands very well.

I agree on him and Ivey being the best out there right now. Phil winning a 12th is news to me, so thanks for that. I am not saying he isn't a great player. I am saying he is not as good as Ivey or Dwan. I don't think he is as good as Negreanu. I don't think he is as good as quite a few players. I'd take Annie Duke over him more often than not because I think she frustrates him and makes him play badly.

I know what you're saying on Helmuth, aggressive, young players can throw him into a tizzy quick which is always entertaining to watch at anytime.....short story here...at last years main event Helmuth arrived with an entourage of 4 divas (two on each side of him) walking him up the red carpet entrance they have set up like he's some kind of royalty. The funny part of it was that he was eliminated very early in the tourney.

One other quick note...another player that is not much fun to play simple because of his total lack of a personality is Gavin Smith, who like Helmuth self promotes far beyond what everyone else ranks him..probably moreso.

I will be leaving on vacation to the Keys in a couple of days since I decided a few days ago not to play the main event this year..just not up to it, I got worn down early on this year...I had a good June at the WSOP this year so maybe I'll get back on track after some vacation time.

 

[yimyammer]

Daniel Negreanu is my favorite player to watch when he is on as far as reading other players. But I have heard he is kind of a jerk. Is that true? He comes across well on TV.

You don't have to tell me, but have I seen you at the big events in recent years on TV? If you are on youtube anywhere and want to PM me, I'd be grateful.

Me too!

Did you hear what % Antonio had of his action? I've heard rumors as small as 10%

 

[yimyammer]

Not at all hos...Daniel is one of the nicest guys you could ever meet...he plays up to the crowd and they eat it up. A real cutup at times.

You're exactly right on him being able to tell what cards someone has, not only the cards but the suit as well when he's on..when he's off he's way off...but as often as he gets close to what you have is actually pretty eerie...that's how he can win so many hands with rags......one thing I've figured out about him is when he bets or raises the the end of the bet being 75...such as 875, 1175, etc..you can rest assured he either has a pocket pair pre flop or he hit something on the flop if after.

whats that picture in your sig from?

 

[yimyammer]

At one time Ivey had 5 bracelets to Helmuth's 11. I think he now has 8. I don't believe Helmuth holds onto that record for long.

Helmuth won his 12th this year-->1st non holdem bracelet

oddly, Ivey has never won a bracelet in a NL holdem event

 

[Hostile]

I know what you're saying on Helmuth, aggressive, young players can throw him into a tizzy quick which is always entertaining to watch at anytime.....short story here...at last years main event Helmuth arrived with an entourage of 4 divas (two on each side of him) walking him up the red carpet entrance they have set up like he's some kind of royalty. The funny part of it was that he was eliminated very early in the tourney.

One other quick note...another player that is not much fun to play simple because of his total lack of a personality is Gavin Smith, who like Helmuth self promotes far beyond what everyone else ranks him..probably moreso.

I will be leaving on vacation to the Keys in a couple of days since I decided a few days ago not to play the main event this year..just not up to it, I got worn down early on this year...I had a good June at the WSOP this year so maybe I'll get back on track after some vacation time.

If I was good enough to play the Main Event, nothing would keep me from doing so. Kudos to you for the decision to do as you see best.

The brash player I like watching is Matusow. I am not 100% sure why, but he entertains me, while Phil to me is all about himself. I have heard though that Phil is a truly nice guy when not playing poker. When those two go at it, I always laugh.

 

[yimyammer]

the million dollar buy in for the tournament Esfandeari won is what got me. I just don't see these guys having that kind of bank roll where they can lose a million dollars without serious outside investments. Do the sponsors for these guys buy them in. I know that Guy Laliberte can afford it but he is not a normal poker player owning Cirque Du Solei.

I don't think there are many sponsors available to players because of our stupid gov's crackdown on internet poker. From everything I've read most of the pro's sold a substantial portion of their action at a markup. So, for example if you wanted to buy 10% of Antonio's action in the OneDrop, it would cost you $120,000 (which would have made you 1.8 mill+).

Rumors are Antonio didn't have a big portion of his action, but I have no way to tell if the rumors are accurate and what % he actually kept.

Mike Sexton got a heck of a deal when some rich guy bought him in and gave him 50%, so he got to free roll for 50% of the net. He came in 9th for $1,109,333, so he go to take home $54,500+

Supposedly a 22 year old kid bought himself in and kept 100% but didn't finish in the money. Must be nice to be able to dust off $1,000,000 without batting an eye.

Here's a fascinating hand from the OneDrop:

Mikhail Smirnov Mucks Quads In $1 Million Event

Phil Galfond just witnessed the unthinkable.

“I’ve never seen a fold like that, absolutely not,” the cash game pro said.

At around 5 p.m. local time during the fourth blind level, Galfond was present to see his table mate in the $1 million buy-in WSOP event, Russian semi-pro Mikhail Smirnov, fold quads on the river to an all-in bet.

According to Smirnov, the action started with Tom Dwan opening to 32,000. Smirnov called from the small blind with the 8 8, and businessman John Morgan called from the big blind.

The flop fell J 8 7. Smirnov bet 50,000, Morgan called quickly, and Dwan folded.

The 8 hit the turn. Smirnov bet 200,000. Morgan called instantly.

Smirnov said Morgan looked very excited on the turn.

The K landed on the river, and Smirnov bet 700,000, which was more than the pot of 600,000. Morgan thought about it briefly and then shoved for about 3.4 million total, which was about the size of Smirnov’s stack. Smirnov folded the quads face up.

“For me, it was a very easy fold,” Smirnov said. “If he had two kings before the flop he would have re-raised Dwan, because he’s been active and raising a lot. So, two kings was impossible. Two jacks, in theory, was possible.”

Smirnov said that he thought jacks full of eights wouldn’t have been such a confident shove on the river. “He was like all-in, no problem. Before he had been playing very carefully and tight.”

According to his logic, Morgan would have the 10 9.

The size of the buy-in was not a factor in the decision, Smirnov said. He added that Morgan seemed visibly upset after the hand, giving more validity to the fold.

“I personally couldn’t have done it,” Galfond said. “I’d lose sleep. But, I think it was a reasonable fold actually. There are definitely very few hands John could have had that weren’t a straight flush. Jacks full was probably the one that made the most sense, other than a straight flush.”

According to Galfond, the table erupted once the quads were shown. Dwan left the table in disbelief.

Smirnov, who has a Ph.D in economics, is a regular in huge cash games in Russia.

 

[Hostile]

I could not fold quads under any circumstance. Maybe that is a weakness, but I do respect him for doing it if he was beat. I can't quite figure out if he was or not. It jumps around a little too much for me to place who had what cards.

It looks very much to me like he folded the winning hand.

 

[yimyammer]

I could not fold quads under any circumstance. Maybe that is a weakness, but I do respect him for doing it if he was beat. I can't quite figure out if he was or not. It jumps around a little too much for me to place who had what cards.

It looks very much to me like he folded the winning hand.

me neither, I might be tempted depending upon stack sizes and stage in the tourney if I had quads on a board like this:

10sJsQsKs10x

in the hand posted, given both hole cards were required for the straight flush, only one hand can beat quads and I'm simply not good enough to fold hands like this..I think he got over excited with pocket jacks

 

[CowboyMcCoy]

Cowboy McCoy,

Heads up poker is a whole different game. To be honest, Dwan would be justified to "race" with any pair he feel is against two high cards. In this case, Hellmuth had aces and had him dominated. With the structure of the Heads Up Tournament on NBC you are better off doubling up or finishing off your first and second opponents with aggressive strategy, or else you will just simply wait for cards and be a nit and raise in obvious positions. This will put you in a "grind" tournament when the blinds are structured to make you play aggressively, "Who wants to sit around watching players fold two and three bets to each other for 10 and 15 min until a player shows up with a three bet call or re-raise all in?"

Pocket 10's in a 8-9 game table is not a "great hand" but definitely worth raising pre-flop and calling any bet that isn't too substantial too justify the pot odds. After that, you gotta go with your pre flop feel and feel if his betting patterns reflect an over pair or missed high cards. If he bets big on the flop, some times it's best to look him up. see if he checks to you on the turn, because he either has it or you imply lose the minimal by simply checking behind him. On the river, if there was a missed draw, they usually bet around half the pot to make you think they were there the whole time, but don't want to risk a pot size bet to prove it. Call them down with whatever pair you have (hopefully)...most of my money in AC.

I'm not talking about good hands, he said "great"....

 

[ZBTHorton]

I don't want to step on anyones toes or anything, but I saw this thread and decided to pop in.

I've been a professional poker player for 7 years now. Played numerous WSOP events, have FT'd a few of the big tournaments up at Winstar, won the Stars Sunday Million(back when we could play it, etc.).

I'd be glad to answer any questions people have about poker players or whatever.

As far as the % Antonio had, I would be fairly shocked if he had less than 20-30% of himself. If he sold at a markup, and invested any money at all, he'd be at that number. He also backed Brian Rast at one time(and may still) so who knows how that all worked out.