ESPN: Blame Jerry Jones? It's not so simple for the Cowboys

PA Cowboy Fan

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Yes he has...you want an owner that doesn't do anything? Jeffrey Laurie of the Eagles.
Jerry jones has made plenty of effort to get us a Super Bowl. Jerry called L Collins and invited him and his mother to his house very late at night to convince him to sign with us. A man who doesn't care if we win or lose doesn't do this.

Jerry hasn't gotten us a super bowl. It's not from lack of effort.

Show me how it is. I can find plenty of proof that he wants to win. Now show me the proof that he doesn't really care if we win?

I didn't say he didn't want to win. I said it didn't hurt him as much as it did us. If it did, he would step down as GM and give us a real HC. Sure he tries but more than not he fails at it. 20 years and counting.
 

FuzzyLumpkins

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I type "lolololol" because the accusation was absurd, not because of any emotion I'm feeling regarding Kotite or Jauron. Accusing someone of emotionalism is a way to attack your opponent while avoiding his argument. It's a variation on the old ad hominem fallacy. But I digress...

If I'm comparing Garrett to Kotite and Jauron, it's only terms of wins and losses, especially in the playoffs -- the measure by which all coaches in this "same league" are compared and their fates ultimately decided by front offices. You can certainly compare coaches using criteria other than wins and losses, such as ability to develop talent, ability to relate to players, innovation, attention to detail, etc. However, ultimately, every coach in the history of this league has had to answer for his win/loss record. It's "laughable" to assume otherwise. It matters little how original their schemes are or how much players like them; if the coach isn't winning, he's gone.

The problem with attributing any rare event to random chance is, when left to random chance, circumstances tend to gravitate to the mean, not outliers. As a rare event, a seven game losing streak is usually a result of failure across the organization -- that's why so few coaching staffs survive such losing streaks. Can something other than a coach cause a losing streak? Absolutely! That's why we evaluate Garrett in the aggregate.

Emotional doesn't mean that you are weeping or raging. It just means that you are going by feel and not by anything in reality that you can actually link. Are you really going to claim that your not mad that the team is losing though? We have a long losing streak that is historic if you bias out all the other times it has happened! Thanks Garrett!

I understand that Garrett is integral to what goes on with the team. The team is losing and he identifies and personifies the team. Believe me that dynamic is not lost on me. I just don't think in terms of blame here and I am not sure exactly what it is that Garrett does or does not do that he needs to improve on. Those are the terms that I do think in. What you are presenting is much better than blaming him for the playcalling when he doesn't even call the plays anymore but still you seem to be throwing darts. The collective seems a witch hunt.

2 coaches, one of which comes from a different era, both of which have inferior W-L records? It's like invoking their names is supposed to be meaningful. I still see no link. Your logic boils down to 'we can tell those guys sucked so Garrett must suck too.'

You bring up records but Garrett's is .500. It's been a length of time and if you want to call for his removal on that basis fine.

I think finding coaches that go over .500 is harder than you think. If you can convince Sean Payton to come over then great. That is one of the only people I would be on board upgrading Garrett with. Garrett has shown no indication that he can develop a QB. Those guys are even rarer than winning coaches.

Overall I think the following are more important than upgrading Jason Garrett though.

Adding talent to all of the offensive skill positions.
Adding talent to the middle of the defense. Size and quickness at DT. Speed at LB and S.
 

superonyx

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I didn't say he didn't want to win. I said it didn't hurt him as much as it did us. If it did, he would step down as GM and give us a real HC. Sure he tries but more than not he fails at it. 20 years and counting.

And you would be wrong. How hurt are you when the Cowboys lose? What skin do you have in the game? Do you face personal and professional ridicule over a loss? You think you are more hurt by losing than someone who has made this team their entire identity and life?

It's absurd to even say you are more hurt by losing than Jerry Jones.
 

PA Cowboy Fan

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And you would be wrong. How hurt are you when the Cowboys lose? What skin do you have in the game? Do you face personal and professional ridicule over a loss? You think you are more hurt by losing than someone who has made this team their entire identity and life?

It's absurd to even say you are more hurt by losing than Jerry Jones.

If that was the case Jerry would do something about it. He's the only one that can. He wants to win only if he can get the credit. That's the difference. Other teams come and go but the Cowboys for the most part stay the same. Same with Dan Snyder. I'm sure he wants to win too but he's incompetent. There are a lot of instances in sports where owners are incompetent. It doesn't mean they don't want to win.
 

superonyx

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If that was the case Jerry would do something about it. He's the only one that can. He wants to win only if he can get the credit. That's the difference. Other teams come and go but the Cowboys for the most part stay the same. Same with Dan Snyder. I'm sure he wants to win too but he's incompetent. There are a lot of instances in sports where owners are incompetent. It doesn't mean they don't want to win.

And nothing about what you said addresses the fact that you can't possibly be more hurt over losing than Jerry Jones.
 

PA Cowboy Fan

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And nothing about what you said addresses the fact that you can't possibly be more hurt over losing than Jerry Jones.

You're right. If I was Jerry I'd do the exact same things I had been doing. Bring on the hurt. I enjoy it. The more the better.
 
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