ESPN: NFL, NFLPA, and Vick confidants urging him to take paid leave of absence

[sacase]

If the incident happend more than a year ago America will forget. If anything America has very short term memories about things.

At this point all we know is the evidence presented by the government. Vick has not presented any.

Seriously if you were accused of doing something in the media would you admit to it or deny deny deny until you had a chance to speak with your lawyer. Hell, if you were arrested would you admit it to the cop or say nothing? The smart thing to do would be to say NOTHING until you get your lawyer involved, reguardless if you did or did not do it.

At worst I see Vick Copping a plea deal, pays the maximum fine, is banned from ever owning animals, made to do community service in inner city schools about how bad dog fighting is and how it can ruin your life and how it is abuse of the animals, do a few commercials for the humane society and serve a 1 yr suspension from the NFL and paying hefty NFL fines. He will also offer up information about the people who were organizing the fights. Falcons willl drop him and some team will sign M. Vick in 2009. You will see PETA protests at every game until the NFL gets tired of them and bans them from NFL property and by 2009 most people will think....whatever. I mean look at Leonard Little...he killed someone and still plays...

 

[Stautner]

By lying to the commissioner and everyone else involved?.

I'm talking about asking for forgiveness afterward, and you are talking about what is (or may be) going on now - so this comment is irrelevent. You aren't even addressing what I have said.

I agree that people prefer to forgive. And if Vick came out and admitted it and asked for forgiveness, he might eventually get it. That's not what he's doing. He's hiding out, lying about everything, and trying to find a way out. Therefore, no forgiveness.

Again, you underestimate the capacity of the American people to forgive, PLUS you apparently haven't learned from history.

Actors, athletes, celebrities of all type over the years have screwed up, lied about it, then asked for forgiveness and TADA - they still have a career.

What about our won Michal Irivn ....... MULTIPLE RUN-INS WITH THE LAW - lied about what happened each time, now he's in the Hall of Fame.

What about Erik Williams?

Halle Berry was involved in a hit and run, lied about it, and hasn't missed a beat.

Robert Tilton and Benny Hinn scammed people out countless millions of dollars and lied about it, but are now back on TV making money again.

Lawrence Phillips had to beat the hell out of his wife/girlfriends 3-4 times before he lost his NFL career (such as it was).

Art Schlister gambled away millions, lied about it, and was still able to get multiple shots at a career.

Roman Polansky had a fondness for VERY young girls and was convicted of stautory rape and fled the country to avoid being thrown in jail - he continued to make movies that the public paid to see.

Steve Howe, Dwight Gooden ........ I could go on.

Myself and everyone else, will know exactly what a plea deal means - an admission of guilt in exchange for a lesser sentence. Again, in that case, no forgiveness from me and I'm willing to bet none from the Falcons or the NFL either.

This whole topic just sails right over your head ....... we haven't been talking about whether everyone knows (believes) that he was guilty, we have been talking about forgiveness and second chances.

The NFL has always given 2nd chances ......

So what if you won't forgive - that's not the point - you can't project your own thoughts and feelings on the rest of the world and the NFL.

 

[Stautner]

If the incident happend more than a year ago America will forget. If anything America has very short term memories about things.

At this point all we know is the evidence presented by the government. Vick has not presented any.

Seriously if you were accused of doing something in the media would you admit to it or deny deny deny until you had a chance to speak with your lawyer. Hell, if you were arrested would you admit it to the cop or say nothing? The smart thing to do would be to say NOTHING until you get your lawyer involved, reguardless if you did or did not do it.

At worst I see Vick Copping a plea deal, pays the maximum fine, is banned from ever owning animals, made to do community service in inner city schools about how bad dog fighting is and how it can ruin your life and how it is abuse of the animals, do a few commercials for the humane society and serve a 1 yr suspension from the NFL and paying hefty NFL fines. He will also offer up information about the people who were organizing the fights. Falcons willl drop him and some team will sign M. Vick in 2009. You will see PETA protests at every game until the NFL gets tired of them and bans them from NFL property and by 2009 most people will think....whatever. I mean look at Leonard Little...he killed someone and still plays...

That's exactly the point. I'm not sure I will say they forget, but the emotions fade and things settle down and allow for the player to get his second chance.

 

[sago1]

It doesn't matter what some of you think about Vick's dogfighting involvement and statement you don't expect athletes to match your sense of morality. Dogfighting is a felony in 48 states -- live with it. Also dogfighting is a major underground problem which attracks drug use (sales?) and gambling.

The Feds identified his activities in an 18 page indictment. While I haven't read it, I understand Vick's name appears numerous times on every page not just occasional. Some who have read it claim Vick is cited to have ordered at least 1 dog killed and even to have taken $23,000 across state lines to either pay off another dogfighter who beat Vick's dog or for another fight. Supposedly this indictment provides extensive details and is not your usually 3-5 page indictment. Somebody has turned on Vick and is going to testify against him and who knows what kind of evidence they will provide which might be collaborated by others. Further this dogfighting operation started in Vick's home in VA the year he was drafted (01) & continued until at least April 07. Knowing that, it's obvious Vick probably has been extensively involved in such activities (probably only as a speculator but who knows what he might have done?).

Thing thing will only get worse as football season begins at the same time Vick must appear in court. Can you imagine how paper will pay attention to the courtroom drama (better believe some station will carry it life given Vicks' high profile) and what kind of further shocks/evidence unfold. I can just imagine kids who attend school with other players on the Falcon team being asked by their children's teammates if their daddies kill puppies or dogs too just like Michael Vick. All this with the background of demonstrations outside the team's facilities, outside the games, maybe at some homes, tauts from opponents not only to Vick but to other team players, etc. All this is the tip of the iceberg.

 

[CrazyCowboy]

If anyone is shocked by this they need to set their alarm clock earlier and go to bed earlier so that they can wake up. If he refuses to take this leave of absence (foolish decision IMO) look for the pressure on the entire Falcons organization to hit levels.

I am totally SHOCKED!

:bang2: :laugh2:

 

[Stash]

I'm talking about asking for forgiveness afterward, and you are talking about what is (or may be) going on now - so this comment is irrelevent. You aren't even addressing what I have said.

Can't really speak about something yet to happen as fact - and neither can you. That clear enough?

Again, you underestimate the capacity of the American people to forgive, PLUS you apparently haven't learned from history.

Actors, athletes, celebrities of all type over the years have screwed up, lied about it, then asked for forgiveness and TADA - they still have a career.

What about our won Michal Irivn ....... MULTIPLE RUN-INS WITH THE LAW - lied about what happened each time, now he's in the Hall of Fame.

What about Erik Williams?

Halle Berry was involved in a hit and run, lied about it, and hasn't missed a beat.

Robert Tilton and Benny Hinn scammed people out countless millions of dollars and lied about it, but are now back on TV making money again.

Lawrence Phillips had to beat the hell out of his wife/girlfriends 3-4 times before he lost his NFL career (such as it was).

Art Schlister gambled away millions, lied about it, and was still able to get multiple shots at a career.

Roman Polansky had a fondness for VERY young girls and was convicted of stautory rape and fled the country to avoid being thrown in jail - he continued to make movies that the public paid to see.

Steve Howe, Dwight Gooden ........ I could go on.

Different era - different circumstances. And please don't compare the cluster%^$# that is baseball to the NFL. Their union runs them, not the other way around.

This whole topic just sails right over your head ....... we haven't been talking about whether everyone knows (believes) that he was guilty, we have been talking about forgiveness and second chances.

This coming from you? The guy who can't understand that the NFL could suspend Vick today if they chose to? Yeah......

The NFL has always given 2nd chances ......

So what if you won't forgive - that's not the point - you can't project your own thoughts and feelings on the rest of the world and the NFL.

Buy you apparently can, right Junior?

I'm not 'projecting' anything.

I'm stating my opinion, and my beliefs, same as anyone else.

The only person each of us can speak for is ourselves.

In case you've missed it, the NFL has changed.

Just ask Tank or Pacman.

The days of looking the other way or boys will be boys are gone.

The league realizes that these idiots are costing them money - and they're putting a stop to it.

 

[Stautner]

Can't really speak about something yet to happen as fact - and neither can you. That clear enough?

This still doesn't even address what was said - each answer is just some random thought that doesn't even address what you are quoting.

Besides, I did't claim anything other than my opinion - I told you what I think, and I think you are underestimating the American people.

You apparently overestimate your power to set the rules on here, just as you overestimate your power to somehow influence people everywhere to never give Vick a 2nd chance.

Different era - different circumstances. And please don't compare the cluster%^$# that is baseball to the NFL. Their union runs them, not the other way around.

Yeah, those people all had their problems back in the 1800's, right?

It's people - it happens all the time - your eyes are only open to what you want to believe rather than what fits your agenda of condeming Vick to a life of no hope and no opportunities.

This coming from you? The guy who can't understand that the NFL could suspend Vick today if they chose to? Yeah.......

I've never once said they couldn't suspend him ....... apparently your capacity for understanding isn't as superior as you think.

I've only said they will tread lightly before doing so to make sure all due process has taken place and that they are comfortable that they have enough evidence to take action.

This Buy you apparently can, right Junior?

I'm not 'projecting' anything.

I'm stating my opinion, and my beliefs, same as anyone else.

The only person each of us can speak for is ourselves.

In case you've missed it, the NFL has changed.

Just ask Tank or Pacman.

The days of looking the other way or boys will be boys are gone.

The league realizes that these idiots are costing them money - and they're putting a stop to it.

I never said I would personally fogive Vick - I was discussing the American people .........

Try and comprehend the context.

Tank and Pacman, as has been mentioned several times, have been convicted in the past and have had repeat offenses and at least in Pacman's case has admitted wrongdoing in the past.

With them it was never about a mere accusation, it was about a history of repeated run-ins with the law.

But, again, with your history of not being able to stay on topic and failing to comprhend meaning and context I wouldn't have expected you to catch this.

 

[jimmy40]

I hope Vick gives everyone the finger and shows up for camp because it will give ESPN something to talk about besides TO's latest camp injury.

 

[BruceWayne]

If he cares anything about his Ball Club he'll take the Leave of Absence.

 

[Stautner]

If he cares anything about his Ball Club he'll take the Leave of Absence.

That's easy to say, but if his paycheck - his livlihood, is affected, it's not really that easy.

If the team and him would agree to a paid leave of absence that would be best.

 

[Stash]

This still doesn't even address what was said - each answer is just some random thought that doesn't even address what you are quoting.

Besides, I did't claim anything other than my opinion - I told you what I think, and I think you are underestimating the American people.

You apparently overestimate your power to set the rules on here, just as you overestimate your power to somehow influence people everywhere to never give Vick a 2nd chance.

What would you like me to 'specifically' address? I think my point is pretty clear. If there's something I'm missing, spare me the dance routine and ask. I'll be happy to address it clearly for you. You're quick to accuse others of missing the point when it's usually you being the culprit.

I claim no 'power', just my opinion on this matter. And I don't apologize if it doesn't jive with yours. You have every right to yours, as I have to mine.

I see this as an exceptionally disgusting case, in a changed NFL environment where the troublemakers are being systematically weeded out.

I don't claim to 'know' what will happen anymore than you can. I'm 'predicting' that the guy will never set foot on an NFL field again. That's all.

Yeah, those people all had their problems back in the 1800's, right?

I don't care if it was last year. Goodell has ushered in a new era of league discipline this year.

It's people - it happens all the time - your eyes are only open to what you want to believe rather than what fits your agenda of condeming Vick to a life of no hope and no opportunities.

You think I'm condemning Vick?

That he's somehow a 'Vicktim' here?

Just shows how clueless and misguided you truly are.

Mike Vick did all of this to himself - and those poor animals.

I've never once said they couldn't suspend him ....... apparently your capacity for understanding isn't as superior as you think.

Good enough to see you repeatedly schooled anyway.....

I've only said they will tread lightly before doing so to make sure all due process has taken place and that they are comfortable that they have enough evidence to take action.

No, you stated that they were accountable the same as every other employer in the world, which is obviously not the case. And then danced around being completely wrong about it.

I never said I would personally fogive Vick - I was discussing the American people .........

Try and comprehend the context.

Practice what you preach - you don't speak for 'the American People' - certainly not this one.

Tank and Pacman, as has been mentioned several times, have been convicted in the past and have had repeat offenses and at least in Pacman's case has admitted wrongdoing in the past.

With them it was never about a mere accusation, it was about a history of repeated run-ins with the law.

But, again, with your history of not being able to stay on topic and failing to comprhend meaning and context I wouldn't have expected you to catch this.

Yeah, that works when it comes to 'league-imposed' suspensions, which I'm not addressing in my posts. I bring up their names as examples of the league placing a focus on 'cleaning up their act'.

I'm saying that after this 'leave of absence' that Vick will be convicted, will do jail time, and will never play in the NFL again.

Again, I'm not saying I'm right and anyone else is wrong about this, merely that it's my opinion.

I'm not interested in a pissing contest, just an exchange of ideas.

 

[kentuckycowboy]

Poor Petrino. Couldn't have happened to a better person!

 

[Doomsday101]

That's easy to say, but if his paycheck - his livlihood, is affected, it's not really that easy.

If the team and him would agree to a paid leave of absence that would be best.

If Vick is found guilty I have no doubt the NFL will lower the boom on Vick. The public reaction is this case is just overwhelming at this point. Vick is a good player but he is not the life blood of the NFL and very well could be looked at as a liability at this stage

 

[jobberone]

He'll never wash the mud off. So the punishment has already begun--public opinion, NFL and Nike on his behind, yada. I think he will get some suspension which will be ameliorated by cooperation with the Falcons/NFL and the Feds eventually. And likely public opinion/backlash. I don't blame him for doing what his lawyers are telling him. I blame him for abusing dogs if he did. Right now he should be quiet and say nothing. He better take the guaranteed money and the LOA.

 

[Stautner]

What would you like me to 'specifically' address? I think my point is pretty clear. If there's something I'm missing, spare me the dance routine and ask. I'll be happy to address it clearly for you. You're quick to accuse others of missing the point when it's usually you being the culprit.

I said I think you are underestimating the public's capacity to forgive if someone apologizes and says they are repentent, and responded with "how, by lying to the commisioner" ........ (is that how people forgive ....?)

Huh? Him lying to the commissioner now and asking forgiveness later are a little different ...... okay, they are miles apart - you are just throwing out some random argument that doesn't apply.

When I pointed this out you responded by talking about not being able to claim fact about something that has yet to occur, but my words (I think you are .....) clearly shows I am stating an opinion.

Try and pay closer attention .....

I claim no 'power', just my opinion on this matter. And I don't apologize if it doesn't jive with yours. You have every right to yours, as I have to mine.

I see this as an exceptionally disgusting case, in a changed NFL environment where the troublemakers are being systematically weeded out.

I don't claim to 'know' what will happen anymore than you can. I'm 'predicting' that the guy will never set foot on an NFL field again. That's all.

I don't care if it was last year. Goodell has ushered in a new era of league discipline this year..

With guys with a long and proven history of legal problems ....... that's the difference - are you really blind to that?

BY THE WAY ...... did you ever stop to realize that in a year PAcman will likely be back playing, so even this analogy doesn't serve your thoughts.

You think I'm condemning Vick?

That he's somehow a 'Vicktim' here?

Just shows how clueless and misguided you truly are.

Mike Vick did all of this to himself - and those poor animals..

By coming to this conclusion you have clearly shown you aren't actually reading the posts you are responding to ....... no wonder you can't comprehend or stay on topic.

I've clearly stated the opposite of what you just said - and I clearly was merely saying your agenda has blinded you to clear thinking.

No, you stated that they were accountable the same as every other employer in the world, which is obviously not the case. And then danced around being completely wrong about it.

So, you believe that the NFL can fire, punish and/or otherwise take away a players livlihood for any reason at any time ...... they don't like their wife ..... they don't like the color of their skin ....... they don't like their support of a particular political candidate ........

Considering your lack of comprehension and failure to read everything else you respond to, why would I expect you would be different on this topic?

Practice what you preach - you don't speak for 'the American People' - certainly not this one.

I never said I did - more of your lack of comprehension.

I told you that the American people have always forgiven and given second chances and that I believe they will again.

You are having more and more trouble keeping up, aren't you ........?

Yeah, that works when it comes to 'league-imposed' suspensions, which I'm not addressing in my posts. I bring up their names as examples of the league placing a focus on 'cleaning up their act'.

This is a funny one.

If it works that way with league imposed suspensions it works that way with the league "cleaning up their act", because the method the league uses to "clean up their act" is to impose suspensions.

Perhaps this is too logical for you.

I'm saying that after this 'leave of absence' that Vick will be convicted, will do jail time, and will never play in the NFL again.

Again, I'm not saying I'm right and anyone else is wrong about this, merely that it's my opinion.

I'm not interested in a pissing contest, just an exchange of ideas.

Yes, you said that was your opinion.

And I said my opinion was that you were underestimating the power of people to forgive and that the league always gives second chances.

IF it's all about opinions and opinions are okay, then why did you get all out of shape that I told you my opinion was different than yours?

 

[Stash]

IF it's all about opinions and opinions are okay, then why did you get all out of shape that I told you my opinion was different than yours?

I'll just address this part as I think it's the most important.

I'll concede your point here. It is all about opinions and you have as much right to yours as I do to mine.

You see Vick being forgiven, I don't.

We can just wait and see who turns out to be right - we haven't really got a choice.

I'm not interested in arguing over things neither one of us can prove.

And I doubt you are either.

 

[5Stars]

And I said my opinion was that you were underestimating the power of people to forgive...

Tell that to OJ...!!??


:laugh2:

 

[Doomsday101]

Tell that to OJ...!!??


:laugh2:

Exactly. People love Rover and seeing some high priced athlete going out and fighting Rover, making money off these fights and then killing Rover I don't think many will be very forgiving in a country who spends tons of money on their own Rover. :laugh2:

 

[Stautner]

I'll just address this part as I think it's the most important.

I'll concede your point here. It is all about opinions and you have as much right to yours as I do to mine.

You see Vick being forgiven, I don't.

We can just wait and see who turns out to be right - we haven't really got a choice.

I'm not interested in arguing over things neither one of us can prove.

And I doubt you are either.

I agree that neither opinion can be proved with certainty - only time will tell.

But I do feel that I have two supporting facts:

1. The NFL has ALWAYS given 2nd chances ....... and the Tank and Pacman examples don't dispute, and actually support this fact because each already had their 2nd chances, and in the case of Pacman the 3rd and 4th as well. And he will come back again, so that will be his 5th.

2. The Amercian people have always shown a proclivity to give 2nd chances, especially after the passage of time.

I will readily concede, however, that if Vick is convicted of actually setting up and running the dog fighting operation the odds drop dramatically - I wouldn't say down to zero, but close.

 

[Stash]

I agree that neither opinion can be proved with certainty - only time will tell.

But I do feel that I have two supporting facts:

1. The NFL has ALWAYS given 2nd chances ....... and the Tank and Pacman examples don't dispute, and actually support this fact because each already had their 2nd chances, and in the case of Pacman the 3rd and 4th as well. And he will come back again, so that will be his 5th.

2. The Amercian people have always shown a proclivity to give 2nd chances, especially after the passage of time.

I will readily concede, however, that if Vick is convicted of actually setting up and running the dog fighting operation the odds drop dramatically - I wouldn't say down to zero, but close.

Fair enough!

:beer2: