News: ESPN: NFL owners OK new catch rule by 32-0 vote

[MarcusRock]

Wasn't the whole contention with Bryant that he did not make a football move? Isn't that what those who have been arguing that it wasn't a catch have been saying?

The league seems to be saying it would have been a catch because he got two feet down, maintained control and made a football move, but under the rule in place at the time, those things would have made it a catch. That's why Blandino and his cronies tried to dismiss Dez making a football move.

Maybe I'm missing something in this. I know they wanted to take away the part of maintaining control through the process of hitting the ground, but it seems to me that the things they are saying will make catches like Dez's a catch are the same things in place that should have made it a catch then. He had to get two feet down, have control and make a football move in order for the ground not to have mattered. Now, he has to get two feet down, have control and make a football move and the ground no longer matters.

Yes, you're missing that the going to the ground rule mandated control throughout contacting the ground. Once replay showed that the ball hit the ground and then the ball came out of his possession for a second, that is what overturned Dez' catch. Now that they've taken the GTTG mandate away, depending on the language, Dez' play would now be a fumble that Dez recovered himself.

 

[gimmesix]

I bet they screwed things up again, and now diving catches out of bounds when a guy drags his feet but can't make a football move will be incomplete by rule.

I don't know. I think they are going to err on the side of it being a catch now. This seems to be what the owners want.

So if we make the playoffs, someone on the opposing team is sure to make a catch that should be ruled an incompletion but won't be because of ambiguity in the new rule. (He flexed his knee as if to make a cut, therefore he made a football move.)

 

[Teague31]

Doesn’t change the fact that they practically stole the ring right off Romo’s finger

 

[gimmesix]

Yes, you're missing that the going to the ground rule mandated control throughout contacting the ground. Once replay showed that the ball hit the ground and then the ball came out of his possession for a second, that is what overturned Dez' catch. Now that they've taken the GTTG mandate away, depending on the language, Dez' play would now be a fumble that Dez recovered himself.

Yeah, I know where you stand on this. I also know what the rule said and says.

You continue to miss the fact that the rule in 2014 said that the receiver must complete the process of the catch (two feet down, control, football move). Maintaining control after contacting the ground was only necessary if the process of the catch wasn't completed before contacting the ground.

Even the 2015 version of the rule, changed after Dez's catch, establishes that two feet down, control and establishing yourself as a runner nullifies going to the ground.

In order to complete a catch, a receiver must clearly become a runner. He does that by gaining control of the ball, touching both feet down and then, after the second foot is down, having the ball long enough to clearly become a runner, which is defined as the ability to ward off or protect himself from impending contact. If, before becoming a runner, a receiver falls to the ground in an attempt to make a catch, he must maintain control of the ball after contacting the ground. If he loses control of the ball after contacting the ground and the ball touches the ground before he regains control, the pass is incomplete. Reaching the ball out before becoming a runner will not trump the requirement to hold onto the ball when you land. When you are attempting to complete a catch, you must put the ball away or protect the ball so it does not come loose.

If "control of the ball, touching both feet down," then a "football move," which was the standard then would have made going to the ground inconsequential and the league is saying Dez's catch would be a catch under the new rules of "control of the ball, touching both feet down and then making a football move," then it's pretty easy to draw the conclusion that it should have been a catch in 2014. Or at least it is for some of us.

Please note the "before becoming a runner" necessary component for maintaining control of the ball after contacting the ground.

 

[Aviano90]

So there should be no more controversy on what a catch is now?

 

[KJJ]

So there should be no more controversy on what a catch is now?

They’ll still be some controversy because judgment will always be involved if a receiver had control of the football. At least now they don’t have to hold the ball through the contact of the ground which will eliminate a lot of controversy. Every call involves some judgment and there’s always going to be some controversy.

 

[KJJ]

Doesn’t change the fact that they practically stole the ring right off Romo’s finger

 

[MarcusRock]

Yeah, I know where you stand on this. I also know what the rule said and says.

You continue to miss the fact that the rule in 2014 said that the receiver must complete the process of the catch (two feet down, control, football move). Maintaining control after contacting the ground was only necessary if the process of the catch wasn't completed before contacting the ground.

Even the 2015 version of the rule, changed after Dez's catch, establishes that two feet down, control and establishing yourself as a runner nullifies going to the ground.

In order to complete a catch, a receiver must clearly become a runner. He does that by gaining control of the ball, touching both feet down and then, after the second foot is down, having the ball long enough to clearly become a runner, which is defined as the ability to ward off or protect himself from impending contact. If, before becoming a runner, a receiver falls to the ground in an attempt to make a catch, he must maintain control of the ball after contacting the ground. If he loses control of the ball after contacting the ground and the ball touches the ground before he regains control, the pass is incomplete. Reaching the ball out before becoming a runner will not trump the requirement to hold onto the ball when you land. When you are attempting to complete a catch, you must put the ball away or protect the ball so it does not come loose.

If "control of the ball, touching both feet down," then a "football move," which was the standard then would have made going to the ground inconsequential and the league is saying Dez's catch would be a catch under the new rules of "control of the ball, touching both feet down and then making a football move," then it's pretty easy to draw the conclusion that it should have been a catch in 2014. Or at least it is for some of us.

Please note the "before becoming a runner" necessary component for maintaining control of the ball after contacting the ground.

You just ignored everything I said to go back to the script of "he made a football move, he did, he did, I tells ya." All catch theorists have to ignore the going to the ground rule because if you consider it even for a minute, the argument is dead. Dez did not fulfill that 3-part process so Item 1 kicked in which trumps everything else because it has its own set of rules that must be followed. People who know the rule knew this, which is why even during the broadcast before the decision was announced by Steratore, Mike Pereira said it would be overturned. He didn't think a football move happened and neither did the others who weighed in on the matter including Steratore and Blandino. I get the need to stir up the "we wuz robbed" line but it doesn't change that the call was correct back then. They don't like controversy so they changed it. Won't help the players who made the plays and will just get fans all emotional again.

 

[mahoneybill]

I don't know why it just can't be two feet and the ground can't cause a fumble. So if they have a control of it or they switch hands under control, don't juggle, bobble it, etc...seems pretty straight forward. All this football move stuff...come on.

Agree. Keep it simple. You come down with 2 feet and ball in your hands / or secured against your body etc ,and thats a catch... Only ways its not is if its knocked out, or you drop it to the ground.....

 

[nathanlt]

so when do the cowboys get their 2014 superbowl rings?

After time machines are invented and Romo and everyone goes back to the 1st and goal at the 1 yard line in the Packers game. A 2014 SB ring is not a guarantee.

So... ummm... never.

 

[G2]

Might see a fumble or two more.

 

[gimmesix]

So there should be no more controversy on what a catch is now?

They still have to judge if the player made a "football move" or move common to the game. The officials in 2014 said Dez didn't make one, which is why he had to maintain control through contact with the ground. Control through contact with the ground is now out, but the football move isn't.

I'm not sure why the new rule would have made Dez's catch a catch if it requires a football move that officials said he didn't make, unless they feel that bouncing off the ground is a football move considering one of the examples of a football move that they gave was "the ability to perform such an act."

 

[jrumann59]

So...it's what it was before the Dez call? Or did they get rid of the going to the ground part completely, which will now eliminate sideline catches?

Will wait for the language...

A catch is now three part. Sideline tiptoe catches would need to be inbounds, in control, 3rd step is to maintain possession through the catch whether hitting the ground or continuing out of bounds.

 

[jrumann59]

I bet they screwed things up again, and now diving catches out of bounds when a guy drags his feet but can't make a football move will be incomplete by rule.

my guess it defaults back, you need to maintain possession through the catch as the 3rd part of a catch.

 

[gimmesix]

They still have to judge if the player made a "football move" or move common to the game. The officials in 2014 said Dez didn't make one, which is why he had to maintain control through contact with the ground. Control through contact with the ground is now out, but the football move isn't.

I'm not sure why the new rule would have made Dez's catch a catch if it requires a football move that officials said he didn't make, unless they feel that bouncing off the ground is a football move considering one of the examples of a football move that they gave was "the ability to perform such an act."

Just to further illustrate this, here's how Gene Steratore explained Dez's catch being a no catch:

“Although the receiver is possessing the football, he must maintain possession of that football throughout the entire process of the catch,” Steratore said. “In our judgment he maintained possession but continued to fall and never had another act common to the game. We deemed that by our judgment to be the full process of the catch, and at the time he lands and the ball hits the ground, it comes loose as it hits the ground, which would make that incomplete; although he re-possesses it, it does contact the ground when he reaches so the repossession is irrelevant because it was ruled an incomplete pass when we had the ball hit the ground.”

Here's why the new rule says Dez's no catch would have been a catch:

The new rules defining a catch include:

1. Control of the ball.
2. Two feet down or another body part.
3. A football move such as:
» A third step;
» Reaching/extending for the line-to-gain;
» Or the ability to perform such an act.

So, if Steratore says Dez's catch was ruled a no catch because he "never had another act common to the game" beyond control, then it technically should not be a catch under the new rule because it does not qualify under No. 3 of the new rule. The league has been pretty clear that it would be a catch under the new rule.

 

[MarcusRock]

They still have to judge if the player made a "football move" or move common to the game. The officials in 2014 said Dez didn't make one, which is why he had to maintain control through contact with the ground. Control through contact with the ground is now out, but the football move isn't.

I'm not sure why the new rule would have made Dez's catch a catch if it requires a football move that officials said he didn't make, unless they feel that bouncing off the ground is a football move considering one of the examples of a football move that they gave was "the ability to perform such an act."

You answered your uncertainty in your own post (as seen in the post at the very top of this page).

 

[MarcusRock]

Just to further illustrate this, here's how Gene Steratore explained Dez's catch being a no catch:

“Although the receiver is possessing the football, he must maintain possession of that football throughout the entire process of the catch,” Steratore said. “In our judgment he maintained possession but continued to fall and never had another act common to the game. We deemed that by our judgment to be the full process of the catch, and at the time he lands and the ball hits the ground, it comes loose as it hits the ground, which would make that incomplete; although he re-possesses it, it does contact the ground when he reaches so the repossession is irrelevant because it was ruled an incomplete pass when we had the ball hit the ground.”

Here's why the new rule says Dez's no catch would have been a catch:

The new rules defining a catch include:

1. Control of the ball.
2. Two feet down or another body part.
3. A football move such as:
» A third step;
» Reaching/extending for the line-to-gain;
» Or the ability to perform such an act.

So, if Steratore says Dez's catch was ruled a no catch because he "never had another act common to the game" beyond control, then it technically should not be a catch under the new rule because it does not qualify under No. 3 of the new rule. The league has been pretty clear that it would be a catch under the new rule.

When he "never had another act common to the game," Item 1 (Going to the ground) kicked in. As I've said. He even explains the rule in the quote. Can't ignore that rule. It's the one that made it incomplete.

 

[gimmesix]

You just ignored everything I said to go back to the script of "he made a football move, he did, he did, I tells ya." All catch theorists have to ignore the going to the ground rule because if you consider it even for a minute, the argument is dead. Dez did not fulfill that 3-part process so Item 1 kicked in which trumps everything else because it has its own set of rules that must be followed. People who know the rule knew this, which is why even during the broadcast before the decision was announced by Steratore, Mike Pereira said it would be overturned. He didn't think a football move happened and neither did the others who weighed in on the matter including Steratore and Blandino. I get the need to stir up the "we wuz robbed" line but it doesn't change that the call was correct back then. They don't like controversy so they changed it. Won't help the players who made the plays and will just get fans all emotional again.

And you continue to ignore the fact that if he completed the three-part process (two feet down, control, football move) then going to the ground didn't matter.

Are you saying he didn't complete the three-part process before going to the ground? If you are, then apparently the league now disagrees with you since it is saying Dez Bryant's catch would be a catch now when the three-part process is still two feet down, control and a football move.

Anyway, I said I'm not going to get back into this because you're either thick on the point or have some kind of disconnect. So I'm done.

 

[KJJ]

I bet they screwed things up again, and now diving catches out of bounds when a guy drags his feet but can't make a football move will be incomplete by rule.

As long as the receiver has control of the ball with both feet in bounds it will be a completed pass. All they’ll be looking for on sideline catches is both feet in bounds and control of the football. It has to look like a catch.

 

[MarcusRock]

And you continue to ignore the fact that if he completed the three-part process (two feet down, control, football move) then going to the ground didn't matter.

Are you saying he didn't complete the three-part process before going to the ground? If you are, then apparently the league now disagrees with you since it is saying Dez Bryant's catch would be a catch now when the three-part process is still two feet down, control and a football move.

Wrong. It would be a catch now because the Going to the Ground requirement to maintain possession through contacting the ground goes away. Read Steratore's quote again if you won't believe me.