ESPN: Officer delayed Moats as relative died

[InDakWeTrust]

I understand where you were coming from, but to the poster that I quoted is completely wrong.

If 25 is too young to be on patrol, how old is too old?

Then why don't we test eyesight of senior citizens renewing their license every year?

This issue is public, but it is being blown out of proportion and although I am not agreeing with the officers' actions, he easily could have handled it differently.

 

[GimmeTheBall!]

Truer words have never been spoken. Attitude (a good one) can make or break you in such a situation.

Also, all the officer initially knew was that a car was speeding.

Having said that, officers need to rely on common sense. And common decency. In this case, the officer continued to act the bully after he KNEW what was going on.

Sad. the family deserved lots better.

 

[adamknite]

BTW, there are plenty of situations where cops themselves engage in reckless behavior to stop a 'potential' criminal, though the benefits of catching him definitely don't out-weigh the risks of somebody else getting hurt. Speed chases are definitely one of many such situations, where the need to catch a petty thief leads to that thief jumping lanes trying to out-run cops, while other cars have to swerve to avoid them, in the process running into curbs and off the road. I've seen plenty of times where cops pull over a car that has violated some petty traffic law, and the cop is sitting there in the middle of the road totally oblivious to the fact that he has just created a huge back-up right behind him, simply to ticket a guy a hundred dollars, yet that massive traffic situation impacts the economics way more than the violation itself. It is called EGO.

What about the person who ran because of "petty violation" is he not at fault too for endangering the public? If the person is so concerned about 100 dollars that he would risk his life and the safety of countless others, wouldn't you worry about what he would be willing to do for a larger sum of money? You're painting the cop as if he was wrong for doing his job, yet you fail to mention if the person wasn't breaking the law to begin with, the Cop wouldn't of had to do anything at all.

 

[TheBeast]

*yawn* "race" get over yourselves.

 

[silverbear]

Colin Cowherd is talking about this right now.

I absolutely agree with him. Last week in Oakland, routine stop, guy kills cops. The cop obviously handled this poorly, but those throwing stones at him are guilty of the same tunnel vision they accuse him of.

I've heard people give outrageous excuses to a cop. They no doubt hear them all the time. If the cop had merely waived them off immediately and said "my bad", he wouldn't have been doing his job. At that point, he doesn't know that these aren't desperate criminals. Who's to say the woman who ran in the hospital wasn't just getting away? I don't envy cops trying to make the call in that situation.

They broke the law, he pulled them over. If the guy had pulled over immediately when the cop first tried to stop him, this probably is avoided. Big, athletic looking guy gets out of the car and a couple of women run away. I know it isn't the woman's fault for being irrational at such a time, but some cops would have chased her down and cuffed her at that point. Being in a difficult situation like that doens't allow us to ignore laws or law enforcement.

I don't blame the cop for being on edge. After additional cops or security or whatever they were arrived, he should have verified the story at that point, but I'm guessing this would be no less of a story.

For the record, Ryan Moats is not a "big guy"... I've met him, and he's rather short... oh, he's fit, but he's not intimidating looking at all...

 

[SkinsFan28]

Truer words have never been spoken. Attitude (a good one) can make or break you in such a situation.

Also, all the officer initially knew was that a car was speeding.

Having said that, officers need to rely on common sense. And common decency. In this case, the officer continued to act the bully after he KNEW what was going on.

Sad. the family deserved lots better.

This should be false, he should also have checked with dispatch, and known there were no wants or warrants for the driver of the vehicle, that the vehicle was not reported stolen, and that the vehicle was properly registered.
To answer JoeBob, I was a cop for 5 years, I left because of the attitude too many cops display. The situation always dictates the behavior and urgency. Saying that, the officer also knew:
1. The suspect vehicle had its flashers on, indicating a problem or concerned driver
2. The suspect vehicle did not change its rate of speed or atttempt to evade once the police officer turned on his lights
3. The suspect vehicle cleared the intersection before running the red light (important because it reduces the possibility of a drunken or disorderly driver)
4. The suspect vehicle pulled into a hospital er parking lot, at that point specifically the officer should have started having more concern about assisting, then arresting. This is the point that his attitude should have been self checked. (a side point, if he had had a partner, perhaps this would not have happened, but budget cuts often eliminate patrol partners)
5. Once the crazy women came out and left he was left with a fairly calm and rational man.

my bottom line is this guy should be fired. There were way too many signs that he missed.

 

[khiladi]

What about the person who ran because of "petty violation" is he not at fault too for endangering the public? If the person is so concerned about 100 dollars that he would risk his life and the safety of countless others, wouldn't you worry about what he would be willing to do for a larger sum of money? You're painting the cop as if he was wrong for doing his job, yet you fail to mention if the person wasn't breaking the law to begin with, the Cop wouldn't of had to do anything at all.

I did mention he broke the law and so what? What is the big deal if a petty drug-dealer ran off because he didn't want to go to jail for ten days over some stupid crime and the general public was saved a situation where cars are hit, leading to insurance hikes and police cars are damaged, leading to more tax payer money being spent. The point is not arresting criminals, the point is understanding the situation so bigger problems aren't created. This incident demonstrates the very point I was talking about. It was in reality his EGO which caused him to act in such a way, and that is why he boasted the way he did. It wasn't protocol and it wasn't the call of duty. Any other interpretation of the events and justification for his actions is absurd. The job is one of being a public servant and when the act of catching a criminal creates more problems for the public, you aren't serving the public but being stupid.

 

[adamknite]

I did mention he broke the law and so what? What is the big deal if a petty drug-dealer ran off because he didn't want to go to jail for ten days over some stupid crime and the general public was saved a situation where cars are hit, leading to insurance hikes and police cars are damaged, leading to more tax payer money being spent. The point is not arresting criminals, the point is understanding the situation so bigger problems aren't created. This incident demonstrates the very point I was talking about. It was in reality his EGO which caused him to act in such a way, and that is why he boasted the way he did. It wasn't protocol and it wasn't the call of duty. Any other interpretation of the events and justification for his actions is absurd. The job is one of being a public servant and when the act of catching a criminal creates more problems for the public, you aren't serving the public but being stupid.

I totally agree with what you're saying about this cop, he was a jerk and he acted that way because of his ego, not arguing with you. He needs to be fired.

However, your point about chasing a criminal... If the person would have never broken the law, and then would have never ran from the cops there would be no reason for the cop to go after him, there wouldn't have been a stop to begin with. If the petty thief is so concerned with being put in jail or getting a ticket that he's willing to risk his life and others to get away... imagine what he would do if the stakes were higher. That person should be caught and taken off the streets and the cop shouldn't just "let them get away". If cops just let everybody go who ran off from a traffic stop, there would be a lot more people fleeing the scene because there would be no punishment for doing so. There are laws for a reason and there are punishments for breaking those laws, they should be enforced.

Are you trying to say people should be free to break laws, if that were the case why would there be laws to begin with if there was no punishment for breaking them? Or are you trying to say there shouldn't be any laws at all? Either way, I'll just agree to disagree with you, as long as we both agree the cop in this story was out of line, no reason to make this a political debate, and I'll leave it at that.

 

[khiladi]

Are the stakes higher in that situation or are the stakes possibly higher in a situation that MAY OR MAY NOT OCCUR in the future? My statement was made in the context of the police officer on this forum who was saying that the guy could have hurt somebody by going through a red light and it was justified in pulling him over.... Well then, what about police officers and their speed chases with regards to what is often times just petty criminals trying to avoid getting caught because they got weed stashed in their car.

 

[adamknite]

Are the stakes higher in that situation or are the stakes possibly higher in a situation that MAY OR MAY NOT OCCUR in the future?

That's the real question, and I don't think any of us could give a definitive answer to it sadly. There's a large gray area, just have to hope people are competent enough to make the right choices.

My statement was made in the context of the police officer on this forum who was saying that the guy could have hurt somebody by going through a red light and it was justified in pulling him over.... Well then, what about police officers and their speed chases with regards to what is often times just petty criminals trying to avoid getting caught because they got weed stashed in their car.

I agree a cop is justified in pulling somebody over, even if they have their emergency lights flashing, to make sure the person is legit or possibly in need of help. However, how the cop acted after wards is what was uncalled for, even if Moats was making things worse it's my view a cop should always be calm and collective not a hot head. That cop didn't seem like his #1 priority was to make sure everything was ok, but to act like a hot shot because Moats didn't pull over right away.

Well then, what about police officers and their speed chases with regards to what is often times just petty criminals trying to avoid getting caught because they got weed stashed in their car.

I'll use your question to answer your other question "Would it be better to let him go, or to catch him now to stop what he could possibly do in the future?"... I don't know, I'd think it'd be best to get him off the streets ASAP if he's that desperate to get away over something minor, however, that's just my opinion and people always have different opinions on things because we don't all view the situation in the same light. What if the person wasn't running away because he had a bag of pot, but was running because he did something far worse (possibly murder) and doesn't want that to be found out.... it's a tough choice and a terrible situation. Some people flee just because they make a bad choice to something really minor, however, some are big criminals and a cop doesn't necessarily know that.

 

[TOOMBS]

I'm suprised that the cop was actually suspended. Usually this kind of thing is swept under the rug unless someone is wrongly killed, and even then the pig will only get a short suspension with pay (vacation).

Tax collector with a gun, tiny *****, and nothing more than a high-school education.

 

[DallasCowpoke]

Just an FYI for all y'all saying Moats screwed up by not stopping as soon as the cop's lights went on.

The DPD, as do most major cities, tells the public, especially women, that if a police car attempts to pull them over and they're unsure it's a real cop or uneasy, to drive safely to the nearest well-lit, public place and dial 911.

 

[Mansta54]

This should be false, he should also have checked with dispatch, and known there were no wants or warrants for the driver of the vehicle, that the vehicle was not reported stolen, and that the vehicle was properly registered.
To answer JoeBob, I was a cop for 5 years, I left because of the attitude too many cops display. The situation always dictates the behavior and urgency. Saying that, the officer also knew:
1. The suspect vehicle had its flashers on, indicating a problem or concerned driver
2. The suspect vehicle did not change its rate of speed or atttempt to evade once the police officer turned on his lights
3. The suspect vehicle cleared the intersection before running the red light (important because it reduces the possibility of a drunken or disorderly driver)
4. The suspect vehicle pulled into a hospital er parking lot, at that point specifically the officer should have started having more concern about assisting, then arresting. This is the point that his attitude should have been self checked. (a side point, if he had had a partner, perhaps this would not have happened, but budget cuts often eliminate patrol partners)
5. Once the crazy women came out and left he was left with a fairly calm and rational man.

my bottom line is this guy should be fired. There were way too many signs that he missed.

Outstanding post and there's really nothing else to be said about it. :clap2:

 

[DallasCowpoke]

DPD Cop Issues Statement About Actions At Hospital

Dallas police say public response to the incident involving an NFL player has been enormous.

Dallas Police Officer Robert Powell was placed on leave with pay pending an internal investigation over the March 18 incident with Houston Texans running back Ryan Moats.

Moats had rolled through a red light in an effort to quickly get his family to Baylor regional Medical Center in Plano where his mother-in-law lay dying. By the time the Moats received a ticket and a lecture from Powell, Moats' mother-in-law had passed on.

Friday, Officer Powell issued a statement exclusively to CBS 11 News through his attorneys Bob Gorsky and Christopher Livingston of Lyon, Gorsky, Haring & Gilbert, LLP.

"I wish to publicly and sincerely apologize to the Moats family, my colleagues in the Dallas Police Department, and to all those who have been rightfully angered by my actions on March 18, 2009. After stopping Mr. Moats' vehicle, I showed poor judgment and insensitivity to Mr. Moats and his family by my words and actions. With great remorse I accept my responsibility for adding to their grief in an already difficult time.

I have attempted to reach Mr. Moats to express my personal condolences directly to his family and my regret about my actions. While these efforts have been unsuccessful so far, I hope we can talk soon.

Again, I am very sorry for what I did and ask for the forgiveness of all those touched by these unfortunate events."

 

[Concord]

This should be false, he should also have checked with dispatch, and known there were no wants or warrants for the driver of the vehicle, that the vehicle was not reported stolen, and that the vehicle was properly registered.
To answer JoeBob, I was a cop for 5 years, I left because of the attitude too many cops display. The situation always dictates the behavior and urgency. Saying that, the officer also knew:
1. The suspect vehicle had its flashers on, indicating a problem or concerned driver
2. The suspect vehicle did not change its rate of speed or atttempt to evade once the police officer turned on his lights
3. The suspect vehicle cleared the intersection before running the red light (important because it reduces the possibility of a drunken or disorderly driver)
4. The suspect vehicle pulled into a hospital er parking lot, at that point specifically the officer should have started having more concern about assisting, then arresting. This is the point that his attitude should have been self checked. (a side point, if he had had a partner, perhaps this would not have happened, but budget cuts often eliminate patrol partners)
5. Once the crazy women came out and left he was left with a fairly calm and rational man.

my bottom line is this guy should be fired. There were way too many signs that he missed.

Nice post.

 

[Phrozen Phil]

Wow, this thread really touched a nerve on this board. Having worked with the police and been with them during drug raids and in dealing with Domestics, I can feel for the family and for the officer in question. While I'm not defending his actions, it's easy to use hindsight to judge a situation. It's particularly terrible that this family went through this situation, and damage has been done in terms of community/police relationships. Tough to repair the damage, but hopefully they'll try.

 

[BIGDen]

Geez, what a sad story.

#1 the cop should be fired.

#2 Why is this automatically a racial thing? Could it be the guy is just a jerk to everyone?

Exactly about #2. Race certainly plays a part in many things (maybe even this incident), but I don't assume it here. I'm white and I have had a white cop act like a complete jerk to me despite my being very polite to him. I've also seen black cops be jerks to black guys too. Sometimes it's race, sometimes it's not. Who knows? It's a shame that it happened. Period.

 

[Jon88]

DPD Cop Issues Statement About Actions At Hospital

Dallas police say public response to the incident involving an NFL player has been enormous.

Dallas Police Officer Robert Powell was placed on leave with pay pending an internal investigation over the March 18 incident with Houston Texans running back Ryan Moats.

Moats had rolled through a red light in an effort to quickly get his family to Baylor regional Medical Center in Plano where his mother-in-law lay dying. By the time the Moats received a ticket and a lecture from Powell, Moats' mother-in-law had passed on.

Friday, Officer Powell issued a statement exclusively to CBS 11 News through his attorneys Bob Gorsky and Christopher Livingston of Lyon, Gorsky, Haring & Gilbert, LLP.

"I wish to publicly and sincerely apologize to the Moats family, my colleagues in the Dallas Police Department, and to all those who have been rightfully angered by my actions on March 18, 2009. After stopping Mr. Moats' vehicle, I showed poor judgment and insensitivity to Mr. Moats and his family by my words and actions. With great remorse I accept my responsibility for adding to their grief in an already difficult time.

I have attempted to reach Mr. Moats to express my personal condolences directly to his family and my regret about my actions. While these efforts have been unsuccessful so far, I hope we can talk soon.

Again, I am very sorry for what I did and ask for the forgiveness of all those touched by these unfortunate events."

If I'm Moats, I'll give the department two options: You can be sued, or you can fire this idiot and avoid it.

And no, I wouldn't talk to him.

 

[dogunwo]

Geez, what a sad story.

#1 the cop should be fired.

#2 Why is this automatically a racial thing? Could it be the guy is just a jerk to everyone?

Could be just a jerk, but when there are 400 years worth of examples, its not hard for that type of conclusion to be drawn. I understand the race card is thrown around recklessly sometimes, but that doesnt mean it isnt valid a lot of times as well.

 

[BrassCowboy]

You would not understand unless you have been there. Had Moats and his family stayed in the car until the officer got to his window, and calmly explained that there mother was in the hospital dying, the officer would have probably given them an escort to the door. When you make a traffic stop, and people start flying out of the car, your whole mindset changes, because it is trained to do so.
He didn't do everything perfect, but don't judge him until you have been in his shoes and experienced what he has experienced.

That is BS. He had plenty of opportunity to correct himself. Another cop and a nurse confirmed the story, and the best I hear from the cop is "I'm almost done"

None of them came out of the vehicle in a threatening manner, and it showed that in the vehicle.
As far as staying in the car and doing it right, well that a matter of opinion. Who's to say he would, and frankly in their case, I would of jumped out too to go in. Like I said, cop had more than one opportunity to make it right, so all that cop has to deal with crap every day blah blah. If it is too much for him, maybe he should quit although that will probably take care of itself in this case.