Everyone has it wrong about Garrett

[Rockport]

I completely agree, I also think we needed to get a good OC calling plays and Kellen is that guy. I think the defense is a work in progress, might need a different coordinator there too. Garrett has done his job well.

Yeah I agree on Marinelli. He gets them to fly around the ball but I’ve never like the bend but don’t break defensive scheme he employs.

 

[TheDude]

wrong.

2009: Flozell Kosier Gurode Davis Columbo

by 2011 Flo, Colombo, Davis and Gurode retired plus Kosier hurt his leg and was a corpse of his former self. Which left us with:

Free who was awful at LT
Holland who was average at best.
Costa who was weak and sluggish.
Kosier who lost all his power and mobility.
Smith who was a rookie.

Romo was slaughtered the next 3 years which led to back surgeries and ultimately retirement. But hey he had Felix Jones and Miles Austin!

In 2012 the defense imploded. Ratliff quit, Spencer tore his meniscus, Ware kept tearing his quad and hamstring. Spears left. NICK HAYDEN TIME!

So basically in his first two years Garrett had to completely rebuild the lines on both sides of the ball.

The original quote was about who he inherited (DWare, Witten, Romo, et al) and you asked

Now tell us who was on the OL.

2009 was Kozier, Guroude, Davis, Columbo and Adams - 2010 was a swap of Adams for Free (who most fans wanted at the time)
https://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/dal/2009_roster.htm
https://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/dal/2010_roster.htm

You can jump 3 years if you want, but my original statement is correct looking at 2009 vs 2010. Garret went 5-3 down the stretch so lets not pretend it was the 2000 Texans line.

 

[TheDude]

They had a solid line. Flozell Adams, Gurode, Free to name a few I believe.

Garrett inherited and 11-5 playoff team from the year before that had some injuries to start out the season.

Garrett was also much to blame for that poor start as his play calling and gameplanning was horrendous.

Without Romo the Cowboys went 5-3 down the stretch. Double 5-3 and thats 10-6. So anyone saying it was a 1-7 team loses that argument straight out.

That opening game with the Skins where Dallas had >60 yards to go for a TD with :05 in the half and threw that coveted Hail Mary Screen to Tashard Choice, which resulted in a fumble return TD by D Hall - losing by 13-7 I believe, was something I can say was the only time I collectively heard every fan in the bar yell "***" as the ball was in the air.

 

[8FOR!3]

Yeah I agree on Marinelli. He gets them to fly around the ball but I’ve never like the bend but don’t break defensive scheme he employs.

Hopefully as the season progresses along with us getting Robert Quinn we'll be able to naturally get more pressure up front when we're sending 4. I think if you can get pressure up front then that scheme is OK, but the front 4 has to be better. I think Collins might get better but Crawford inside needs to be replaced.

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

The original quote was about who he inherited (DWare, Witten, Romo, et al) and you asked


2009 was Kozier, Guroude, Davis, Columbo and Adams - 2010 was a swap of Adams for Free (who most fans wanted at the time)
https://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/dal/2009_roster.htm
https://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/dal/2010_roster.htm

You can jump 3 years if you want, but my original statement is correct looking at 2009 vs 2010. Garret went 5-3 down the stretch so lets not pretend it was the 2000 Texans line.

What was Garrett's first year as HC?

 

[TheDude]

What was Garrett's first year as HC?

2010

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

The problem you point out is that Garrett is stubborn and never wants to change things up. Sure he created a good culture in Dallas. But that is not enough to take this team to the next level.

If he was such a big success why haven't we seen it? Why is it that once they canned Linehan (which was hired by Garrett) canned for someone like Moore for the playcalling?

Garrett should be canned. He was one of the main reasons why we went 1-7 that year when he took over. His butt should have been canned also.

And if he was such as success, why is it that they are dumping his playbook and his conservative playcalling philosophy out the door?

The Cowboys are successful not because of Garrett. They are successful in spite of Garrett.

How can you say this?

He went from the 3-4 to the 4-3 and then from base cover 2 to cover 3.
He has allowed all of his new assistants to come in and change things up. that is true with Callahan, Linehan, and Moore as well as with Ryan, kiffin, Marinelli, and Richard.

Even position assistants like Alexander and Eberflus were allowed the same latitude.

He's changed the practice structure in response to player fatigue. He's changed the training regimen in response to the rash of hamstring injuries.

He has embraced analytics and statistics.

Oh and they haven't thrown out the playbook. The post/comeback, in/fly, and other Coryell route combinations were still all over the place. Moore is a Coryell disciple from his time at BSU much moreso with the Cowboys.

Quite frankly, saying Garrett is inflexible is downright ignorant.

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

2010

And what was his record as HC that year?

 

[TheDude]

5-3, with 80% of the line that went 11-5 in 2009. Hence "inherited"

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

5-3, with 80% of the line that went 11-5 in 2009. Hence "inherited"

And why is it that very next year, Gurode, Davis, and Colombo were gone? Was it because they were playing at that same level?

Anywho he went 5-3 with the "inherited line" even if they were shells of their former selves. I fail to see how that is a valid criticism.

 

[Idgit]

5-3, with 80% of the line that went 11-5 in 2009. Hence "inherited"

The nub of the pencil you wrote with last year is still the same pencil. It’s just not as useful because you’ve worn it to a nub. And you can tell it was a nub because nobody used the nub at all for anything once you threw it away. Any of the nubs.

 

[DandyDon52]

I completely agree, I also think we needed to get a good OC calling plays and Kellen is that guy. I think the defense is a work in progress, might need a different coordinator there too. Garrett has done his job well.

so you think garrett hired kellen as OC??

 

[DandyDon52]

And why is it that very next year, Gurode, Davis, and Colombo were gone? Was it because they were playing at that same level?

Anywho he went 5-3 with the "inherited line" even if they were shells of their former selves. I fail to see how that is a valid criticism.

if the eagles had needed to win that last game, and played the starters, JG would have been 4-4.
He was also part of the reason the team was 1-7, he was in total control of the offense, which
played poorly during that period.
When romo went down the players just sort of gave up.
you cant say it was all wades fault the team was 1-7 ??

 

[Bob-Lillys-War]

Cant win a divisional post season game in post season in 10 years .

putrid.

 

[ConstantReboot]

How can you say this?

He went from the 3-4 to the 4-3 and then from base cover 2 to cover 3.
He has allowed all of his new assistants to come in and change things up. that is true with Callahan, Linehan, and Moore as well as with Ryan, kiffin, Marinelli, and Richard.

Kiffen and Marinelli saved his butt. Why do yousay that he went from a 3-4 to a 4-3 as though he knows anything about defenses? Garrett doesn't know much about defenses. I think that decision was more on Jerry rather than Garrett.

Even position assistants like Alexander and Eberflus were allowed the same latitude.

If that's the case why did he and Callahan clash? Callahan did not like Garrett's playcalling. It got so bad that Jerry had to step in and give Callahan the duties of run blocking coach in 2014. We all knew how that turned out to be and Callahan's presence was sorely missed onward when he left Dallas.

So to say that Callahan had some leeway is false. Otherwise, he would still be here. In 2014, Garrett was relegated to the sidelines just chew gum and butt slap players.

He's changed the practice structure in response to player fatigue. He's changed the training regimen in response to the rash of hamstring injuries.

Yes he's done a good job with that. I agree here.

He has embraced analytics and statistics.

Analytics and Statistics don't mean squat if you aren't willing to adopt new ways and methods of doing things. When was the last time Garrett ever made any kind of adjustment to anything? Heck, he has been in charge of this offense for more than 10 years and it is as stale and predictable as it's always been. That is on Garrett. Jerry had to step and promote Kellen Moore to change things on offense. Because Garrett is too stubborn and hardheaded to make changes on behalf of the team.

Oh and they haven't thrown out the playbook. The post/comeback, in/fly, and other Coryell route combinations were still all over the place. Moore is a Coryell disciple from his time at BSU much moreso with the Cowboys.

If the Garrett playbook was so great why on earth is Kellen Moore calling plays? Results matter. The results of last year produced squat on offense and thats why Linehan was fired and once again Garrett is not allowed to call plays. I don't care what they say. I say a lot of quick slants, RPO, pre-snap motion, and play action - things that surely is not part of the Garrett playbook. So please stop trying to sell us that Moore is using Garrett's playbook. He is not.

Quite frankly, saying Garrett is inflexible is downright ignorant.

Saying that Garrett is inflexible is telling it as it is - not ignorant. If he was flexible why didn't he force Linehan to make changes to the offense? The reason that be is that Linehan's offense is Garrett's offense. Thus that is what he wanted. Don't sugarcoat Garrett's weaknesses. Garrett is incapable of change and being flexible unless I see otherwise.

 

[Bob-Lillys-War]

Garrett can preach night and day, he just can't win a divisional round in the post season.

10 years he has had the chance, & still he gets no where .

NFL coaches usually have 3-4 years to prove their worth , Jason has had 10 years .

He has an embarrassing post season record for a 10 year tenure .

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

boring line by line.

Prove Garrett does not know much about defenses.

Jerry has gone on record saying that JG has control over his staff.

Whether or not Marinelli and Kiffin "saved his butt" is besides the point. Fact is that he was the one that brought them in.

Then of course there are the rest of the coaches which further demonstrate my point. You seem to be missing the entire point for the sake of bashing Garrett. You said that Garrett is anathema for change. You are demonstrably wrong.

The rest is just hogwash. We don't know what adjustments Garrett has made or not. Assuming that no adjustments have been made is ludicrous. They played less nickel after the first two series just this past game but of course you are going to wishcast credit to anyone other than GArrett.

The RPO, slant, and PA are hardly new and this notion that they -particularly the last two- were not in his playbook is plain amusing.

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

if the eagles had needed to win that last game, and played the starters, JG would have been 4-4.
He was also part of the reason the team was 1-7, he was in total control of the offense, which
played poorly during that period.
When romo went down the players just sort of gave up.
you cant say it was all wades fault the team was 1-7 ??

You have no idea what would have happened. The record was what it was and you don't get to go revisionist history to suit your preferred outcome. i can wishcast that the 3 losses were wins too but I don't do that because I deal with the real.

And sure he was in total control of running the offense but it was very clear that the team gave up on Phillips. They quit on him and it was no more apparent than the Green Bay game.

When Phillips was fired what happened? Oh yeah the team started playing their ***** off: something that has been a consistent trait of Garrett's team ever since. That speaks towards his leadership.

 

[Bob-Lillys-War]

Since when is a 10 year coach who has never made it past the divisional round any good ? what in the heck ?! ,

Post season results is what matter .

Mediocrity & self righteous aren't enough to win in the post season .

Post season Results . ... not self righteous 'philosophy' and 'culture' , those aren't getting it done .

 

[Flamma]

When Garrett took over in 2010 as the head coach he inherited a listless 1-7 team lacking talent. He followed that with 3 8-8 seasons with teams again lacking in talent and unable to do much about it because of salary cap issues. Everyone seems to blame him for the lack of a Super Bowl but in fact he’s the one who turned this organization around. Jones put a lot of faith in Garrett because of his pedigree and intelligence. He had a plan and a vision on how to build a football team. He first focused on getting the right kind of players. I promise you he wanted nothing to do with Greg Hardy. Secondly he focused on building the team from the trenches out which is something you can’t do in one year with the salary cap issues he inherited. He stuck to his guns and build a solid team improving it every year. There were some bumps along the way with time management but you haven’t seen those in recent years. You can nick pick a time here or there but they can be argued both ways. He still needs to prove it in the playoffs but its obvious he’s put together a young team, built from the trenches out and wins. Let’s see what happens this year.

A lot of people are critical of Garrett, myself included. But I have proposed that he may as well have over achieved as opposed to what most people think. Three straight 8-8 seasons with a team with almost no defense. A 12-4 and 13-3 season and the defense wasn't much better. No season did the team collapse or look like they stopped trying like in 2008 and 2010. I can easily see where another coach could have done much worse. Similar to how people judge Dak without considering his circumstances.