Everyone struggles when their defense doesn't do their jobs

[Yobwocs]

The thread was originated by the OP to show that Dak was 7th on that list and shares no blame in the losses

Easy to see that......I expected more originality, really

LOL NO. Fail.

Actually, there isn't much between #4-7 if you do the math, so Dak is about Top 4, but no worse than Top 7. Every published list that has come out recently has Dak in that range, and the one that didn't (CBS)..... people got upset that they ranked him 8th. That should tell you people get upset when Dak is not properly respected.

Firstly, Dak is unique in the sense that..,... his organization sucks - hasn't been to championship game in 30 years (most of that was when Dak was in grade school), his GM sucks, he has McCarthy - a mere offensive coordinator in a coach's disguise. Even at GB he was heavily criticized. His teammates are the Miami Sharks from Any Given Sunday - hosting parties before game day while admitting they quit against the Packers. He has no running game (Jackson and Purdy both have that). His defense is garbage against great teams (Bills, Niners, Packers) and they were even awful against mediocre teams like the Cardinals and Seahawks.

Everything he has to work with sucks. Name me one upper range QB that has everything around him sucking. Ok... Herbert. That's it.

Purdy has an all star cast around him. Hurts at least had one year where his defense showed up in 2 pivotal playoff games. Jackson has everything (a great coach, organization, defense, and running game). Allen at least has the Bills mafia and a stable franchise and a team that is equal to the Chiefs but just always screwed by the kicker, and can't seem to make the final play to beat the Chiefs.

That he's able to still rank in the upper quadrants despite being in the worst situation is the mark of an elite Quarterback. He'll be in the Top 10 in both passing yards and Touchdowns by the time he's done.

 

[kskboys]

Except..... Mahomes.

But everybody already knows he is a league above EVERYONE.

Here it is for you, evidence in plain form:

Not true about Mahomes. He's had one of the better D's in the league now for several years. I think they even jumped up into top 5 last year. And the Chiefs won last year's super bowl on the strength of that D. Everyone needs a D to win a super bowl.

 

[kskboys]

Just to tag on, Dak has a ridiculously good record when the team runs the ball well. This isn't a coincidence. It helps the QB and the defense.

Personally, I think that the issue brought up in the OP is beyond a Dak discussion. IMHO, the league financially overvalues QB's not named Mahomes. I would rather have a mediocre QB with a great run game and defense that a great QB with a bad run game and defense. Quite frankly, the mediocre QB is going to look pretty great in that situation.

Mediocre Eli won 2 super bowls w/ that formula.

 

[leeblair]

Mahomes is an elite freak. May go down as the GOAT when all said and done.

It depends on how long Taylor Swift and Travis Kelce are needed by the league.

 

[Rockport]

It depends on how long Taylor Swift and Travis Kelce are needed by the league.

 

[TheCritic]

It sucks that every thread devolves into a bash-Dak thread.

True that! We all watched the Packers disaster and we all saw Dak play a terrible game. And many of us were ready to kick Dak to the curb. Unfortunately that is where some CZ members stopped in their analysis and basically devolved into trolls.

 

[JoeKing]

Why are we posting pro-Mahomes threads on CZ? At least move it to the proper forum, the NFL Zone.

 

[nate dizzle]

Not true about Mahomes. He's had one of the better D's in the league now for several years. I think they even jumped up into top 5 last year. And the Chiefs won last year's super bowl on the strength of that D. Everyone needs a D to win a super bowl.

No offense ksk but last year was really the only year he's had a defense. They've been middle of the pack most of his time as qb. I can post a better breakdown of where they ranked later when I get in front of my computer if you care enough to see it.

 

[doomsday9084]

Mediocre Eli won 2 super bowls w/ that formula.

I agree. If you go back through the history of super bowls, most fit into one of these categories:
- Mahomes or Brady while realistically being underpaid
- A hot young QB on a rookie deal (Rothlisberger, Rodgers, etc)
- A run and play defense team (NY, Bal, etc)

I really see no cases of a good but not great QB on a huge contract winning. The NFL giving these guys these huge contracts is a fool's errand. Again, this isn't a Dak thing. Russell Wilson in Denver, Daniel Jones, etc. etc.

 

[noshame]

It's true
Especially if your own QB adds to your opponents point total.
Sound familiar?

 

[zrinkill]

It sucks that every thread devolves into a bash-Dak thread.

This thread was Dak bait.

 

[zrinkill]

Mediocre Eli won 2 super bowls w/ that formula.

How many int did Mediocre Eli throw in his two Superbowl wins?

 

[SteveTheCowboy]

I'm curious - if you have an offense that has trouble moving the ball and can't keep the defense off the field, how is that the defenses fault?

But whatever. Everything failed against GB. The defense sucked, the offense sucked, the coaching staff sucked, and in the aftermath you saw a coward step forward and say they were just tired, and another said recently they had quit.

Is it any wonder many of us have little to no faith in this franchise?

Everyone knows this. Some people get really mad when you want to just assess Dak in a focused way.

Bash the defense? Fine...no problem.

Bash the run game? Cool.

Bash Cooper Rush? He deserves it.

Bash MM including some immature names? Yes sir.

Bash Dak? All heck breaks loose.

 

[acr731]

LOL NO. Fail.

Actually, there isn't much between #4-7 if you do the math, so Dak is about Top 4, but no worse than Top 7. Every published list that has come out recently has Dak in that range, and the one that didn't (CBS)..... people got upset that they ranked him 8th. That should tell you people get upset when Dak is not properly respected.

Firstly, Dak is unique in the sense that..,... his organization sucks - hasn't been to championship game in 30 years (most of that was when Dak was in grade school), his GM sucks, he has McCarthy - a mere offensive coordinator in a coach's disguise. Even at GB he was heavily criticized. His teammates are the Miami Sharks from Any Given Sunday - hosting parties before game day while admitting they quit against the Packers. He has no running game (Jackson and Purdy both have that). His defense is garbage against great teams (Bills, Niners, Packers) and they were even awful against mediocre teams like the Cardinals and Seahawks.

Everything he has to work with sucks. Name me one upper range QB that has everything around him sucking. Ok... Herbert. That's it.

Purdy has an all star cast around him. Hurts at least had one year where his defense showed up in 2 pivotal playoff games. Jackson has everything (a great coach, organization, defense, and running game). Allen at least has the Bills mafia and a stable franchise and a team that is equal to the Chiefs but just always screwed by the kicker, and can't seem to make the final play to beat the Chiefs.

That he's able to still rank in the upper quadrants despite being in the worst situation is the mark of an elite Quarterback. He'll be in the Top 10 in both passing yards and Touchdowns by the time he's done.

So what I got out of reading this is that Dak is the only part of the team that doesn't suck.

 

[CowboyoWales]

Except..... Mahomes.

But everybody already knows he is a league above EVERYONE.

Here it is for you, evidence in plain form:

OK, but is the issue the number of points conceded or the issue of managing a comeback?
I would say it's the latter. Interestingly, we blame the run game, however, Dak had 4 chances to beat/tie the two SF play-off loses DESPITE the non-existent run game .... and..... at 7-0 to GB, we came out running, it only goes south on drive 1 when we start going throw and then second drive when Dak throws an INT.
Now Kellen got criticised for his lack of running game BUT MAYBE, part of the issue is Dak trying to prove himself (be it contract or his distractors that call him a coach driving flat track bully).

 

[Bobhaze]

Except..... Mahomes.

But everybody already knows he is a league above EVERYONE.

Here it is for you, evidence in plain form:

I agree with your premise that all QBs need defense to win especially playoff games. Yes, even Mahomes. There is no way the chiefs win that SB last year without their great defense. Dak has not performed well too many times in the playoffs. He deserves his share of the blame. But it’s not 100% on him.

The idea that winning playoff games is 100% on the QB is oversimplified. Yes, a team must have a good QB to win. BUT - Even the greats like Tom Brady or Pat Mahomes sometimes needed help.

• In the 2020 NFC championship game, Brady threw 3 INTs vs the packers. The Bucs defense bailed him out. Without that great defensive performance, Brady does not win his last SB with Tampa.
• In last year’s playoffs, the chiefs defense was outstanding. They held a really good dolphins offense to 7 points, and the #1 seed ravens to 10 points on the road. Mahomes could only generate 17 points in that AFC championship game. Then in the SB, the chiefs defense kept the chiefs in the game in the first half giving the offense time to get it together.

Bottom line - you have to have an excellent QB to win in the playoffs. But great TEAMS win championships. Aaron Rodgers was a great QB who won only one SB because he didn’t have enough defense. Dan Marino was an incredible QB who never won a SB. Never had a great defense.

 

[McKDaddy]

Mediocre Eli won 2 super bowls w/ that formula.

Eli was a big game playa though.

 

[Chuck 54]

I'm curious - if you have an offense that has trouble moving the ball and can't keep the defense off the field, how is that the defenses fault?

But whatever. Everything failed against GB. The defense sucked, the offense sucked, the coaching staff sucked, and in the aftermath you saw a coward step forward and say they were just tired, and another said recently they had quit.

Is it any wonder many of us have little to no faith in this franchise?

It would be terrible, but that hasn’t been our offense the past 3 seasons when we’ve averaged 30 points per game.
Of course, the opposite has also been true, when the defense can’t stop the run game, our offense isn’t on the field much.

 

[Chuck 54]

I agree with your premise that all QBs need defense to win especially playoff games. Yes, even Mahomes. There is no way the chiefs win that SB last year without their great defense. Dak has not performed well too many times in the playoffs. He deserves his share of the blame. But it’s not 100% on him.

The idea that winning playoff games is 100% on the QB is oversimplified. Yes, a team must have a good QB to win. BUT - Even the greats like Tom Brady or Pat Mahomes sometimes needed help.

• In the 2020 NFC championship game, Brady threw 3 INTs vs the packers. The Bucs defense bailed him out. Without that great defensive performance, Brady does not win his last SB with Tampa.
• In last year’s playoffs, the chiefs defense was outstanding. They held a really good dolphins offense to 7 points, and the #1 seed ravens to 10 points on the road. Mahomes could only generate 17 points in that AFC championship game. Then in the SB, the chiefs defense kept the chiefs in the game in the first half giving the offense time to get it together.

Bottom line - you have to have an excellent QB to win in the playoffs. But great TEAMS win championships. Aaron Rodgers was a great QB who won only one SB because he didn’t have enough defense. Dan Marino was an incredible QB who never won a SB. Never had a great defense.

Mahomes is special, elite, whatever glowing term one can muster, but I also think we often fail to give enough credit to Andy Reid and his coaching staff. Mahommes doesn’t just go to any team in the NFL and become a SB favorite.

 

[glimmerman]

I remember when our lack of run Defense started getting exposed under quinn. We were pressuring the qb like crazy and then teams started running on us. It was because everyone was going after the qb and not staying with there assignments. Players not staying in there lanes and getting up the field to pressure. They adjusted and it improved for a game or 2 but teams adjusted and schemed to run right through us or right behind the Defensive player.