Fan-sanity note:Dez

[xwalker]

I think the back is an issue.

A lot of Cowboys careers have ended early due to back issues.

Novacek
Haley
Free Agent failure Marco Rivera
Aikman (didn't he say that his back was more of an issue than the concussions?)
Moose (I think he played 1 year after back/neck surgery)

It seems like there were several others.

 

[Fritsch_the_cat]

Yes, Dez sees himself as the 2nd best WR in football and would like to be paid like it.

Wait, what? If Dez doesn't think he is the best WR in the game I wouldn't pay him a penny.

If he's going to wear that 88 I want him to think like The Playmaker, tell them you are the best and then go out and show them you are the best.

 

[Outlaw Heroes]

Good thread. About the only thing I disagree with in the OP is the suggestion that his cap hit will be about $13 million regardless. If that's the case, you franchise him and shelf negotiations. Let pressure build on his side since there's no real advantage in that scenario to signing him up long-term.

 

[NeonDeion21]

A lot of Cowboys careers have ended early due to back issues.

Novacek
Haley
Free Agent failure Marco Rivera
Aikman (didn't he say that his back was more of an issue than the concussions?)
Moose (I think he played 1 year after back/neck surgery)

It seems like there were several others.

After the loss to WAS in Week 17, Bryant could not walk because of a bad back. If the Cowboys would've won, Bryant would've missed the playoffs.

I remember several weeks went by before Bryant was cleared to start working out. Then he had back spasms again. I'm guessing they found something in his back that causes some concern long-term. No solid information. Just thinking out-loud.

 

[jterrell]

Yes, for each issue that is public knowledge, there are usually more that are not.

There are some odds things about him.

Why does he live in Duncanville? That is a significant distance with a lot of traffic between there and Valley Ranch. It's generally not an area where you would expect Pro Athletes to live. I have to think that the Cowboys would prefer him to live near Valley Ranch.

Officially the police have been called to his current house 6 times. I don't think this is the house he lived in his first couple of years in the league. Some of these appear to be from other people that were at his house, but most people don't have the police at their house 6 times in their life and definitely not 6 times in less than 5 years.

There are a lot of rumors that he has a large number of people living with him. It is just rumors but they keep resurfacing and it seems from different sources.

There are a lot of privacy rules regarding medical and legal issues surrounding players. There are many issues that teams can't or won't release to the public.

He actually lives in Cedar Hill and it is not at all rare to see professional athletes live there.
But we already know he lives on the same block as his mentor which is likely how he ended up in Cedar Hill.

Dez actually lived in North Dallas before moving South.

Dez doesn't own a regular house, he owns a spread. He was always known to take care of a lot of people since he entered the league.
None of that is new or really rare.

Almost every rich person has a house full of people.
They have cooks, and personal assistants and trainers that can live there in addition to family members.

Again, this is the kind of drama we should ignore completely.
Dallas isn't worried enough to not pay the man an enormous salary.
And they've gotten the highest receiving TD total from him of anyone in football over his career.

Any team would want to leverage franchise status to get a reasonable deal done.
There need be zero attached or read into it.

Irvin and Emmitt went through the same thing and Jerry would jump on a grenade for those guys.

 

[jterrell]

The Fan hosts generally always suck up to local athletes and heap praise on them. Most times that there is a debatable issue in regards to a player, the Fan hosts go out of their way to defend that player.

Of the 3 local sports talk stations, they have the closest ties to the Cowboys. Broaddus, Fisher and occasionally Brad Sham call in to the station often and these guys are what I consider Cowboys Insiders. Fisher actually seems to have more inside information than Broaddus. Several of the Fan hosts spend a lot of time at Valley Ranch and several of them are now going there to watch film of draft prospects with Broaddus.

I'm not saying they never just throw some crap against the wall to see what sticks, but in general they have close ties to what goes on around the Cowboys.

Not the Fan guys speaking this morning.
Not all hosts are the same.
This wasn't player-friendly guys, it was a Commanders fan who has been bashing Dez all year to the point his brother cusses him out as part of the show and Mac Engel who is a fill-in, part-timer with no real ties to the team.

 

[BlindFaith]

Not the Fan guys speaking this morning.
Not all hosts are the same.
This wasn't player-friendly guys, it was a Commanders fan who has been bashing Dez all year to the point his brother cusses him out as part of the show and Mac Engel who is a fill-in, part-timer with no real ties to the team.

For the record, they themselves are putting only a 65% chance of there being something to it. Like they said, there is a little smoke right now. Does that mean there's a fire? Who knows. But the longer this drags out the greater the possibility there is some issue that the Cowboys are aware of that are causing them to really take a cautious approach to Dez.

 

[jterrell]

Good thread. About the only thing I disagree with in the OP is the suggestion that his cap hit will be about $13 million regardless. If that's the case, you franchise him and shelf negotiations. Let pressure build on his side since there's no real advantage in that scenario to signing him up long-term.

The avg of Dez's deal will be OVER 13m.
So you could certainly create a smaller cap hit but that has not been the recent model.
I suspect they'll pay as they go on Dez.

They appear to have left the credit card model behind.

Part of the benefit of a long-term deal is you get him locked in for 5 years.
In 3 years his deal may seem pretty puny for a top 5 guy..

 

[xwalker]

Not the Fan guys speaking this morning.
Not all hosts are the same.
This wasn't player-friendly guys, it was a Commanders fan who has been bashing Dez all year to the point his brother cusses him out as part of the show and Mac Engel who is a fill-in, part-timer with no real ties to the team.

Yes, I never listen to the morning guys.

 

[xwalker]

The avg of Dez's deal will be OVER 13m.
So you could certainly create a smaller cap hit but that has not been the recent model.
I suspect they'll pay as they go on Dez.

They appear to have left the credit card model behind.

Part of the benefit of a long-term deal is you get him locked in for 5 years.
In 3 years his deal may seem pretty puny for a top 5 guy..

Yes, that's something they have to think about. With the NFL cap trending upwards will the average salary for WRs significantly increase?

On the flip side, it seems that WR salaries might be trending down right now in a possible market correction. The Megatron and Fitzgerald contracts were stupid. They paid them double what the franchise tag was back then. Now Fitz has taken a pay cut, Mike Wallace might be a cap cut and there are talks about Megatron taking a pay cut to enable them to retain Suh.

 

[jterrell]

With this inane "may" exist note from PFT going to just bump this and hope a few listen and pay attention.

 

[jterrell]

For the record, they themselves are putting only a 65% chance of there being something to it. Like they said, there is a little smoke right now. Does that mean there's a fire? Who knows. But the longer this drags out the greater the possibility there is some issue that the Cowboys are aware of that are causing them to really take a cautious approach to Dez.

the problem is that entire line of thinking.

this is dragging out because you have two sides working to get the best deal for themselves.
it doesn't logically follow that it means anything else.

it is just fodder for views and advertising.

We KNOW Dez has been offered a 100 million dollars.
The fact there is no deal means Dez isn't worried enough to take that amount.

If I were Dez and had a tape that could damage me floating about I'd have been real quick to take 20m guaranteed on a 100mil deal.
You think Ray Rice wouldn't take 20m right now?

The Cowboys have lots of reasons for not offering Calvin Johnson money that have zero to do with risk or character.

 

[Derinyar]

the problem is that entire line of thinking.

this is dragging out because you have two sides working to get the best deal for themselves.
it doesn't logically follow that it means anything else.

it is just fodder for views and advertising.

We KNOW Dez has been offered a 100 million dollars.
The fact there is no deal means Dez isn't worried enough to take that amount.

If I were Dez and had a tape that could damage me floating about I'd have been real quick to take 20m guaranteed on a 100mil deal.
You think Ray Rice wouldn't take 20m right now?

The Cowboys have lots of reasons for not offering Calvin Johnson money that have zero to do with risk or character.

Exactly. Most deals don't get done before a deadline unless one side is really willing to give in. The Cowboys I'm sure would like to not have to franchise Dez, it would make things slightly easier during the start of FA. Dez would rather not be franchised as he said he sees it as a lack of respect. The Cowboys will franchise Dez because they want him going no where. They will likely get a deal that neither side is exactly happy with pretty close to the deadline for negotiation built into the franchise tag.

 

[ElGatoGrande]

Please do not get sucked into the Dez drama that the media will push hardcore.
We need to help each other as fans stay sane.
Easiest way is keep it about football and the cap.

This is a dead period and a lot of media folks have very selfish reasons for blowing this out of proportion and constantly prodding Dez and the team to keep it topic 1.

Stay above the fray.

Legitimate facts:
Yes, Dez has over his fairly long football career had some minor off-field issues.
None of those issues crack the top 50 historically for Dallas Cowboys players.
Dallas is changing its modus operandi on contracts.
Before Anthony Spencer the franchise tag was considered largely unthinkable. But it worked and is a tool the team is aware of and has used in the recent past.
Dallas did sign Tyron Smith to a very large deal. A deal we are told the Cowboys also offered Dez.
Yes, Dez sees himself as the 2nd best WR in football and would like to be paid like it.
No, the team isn't scared of Dez's conduct. They are guaranteeing he will make 13m minimum this year as a starting point of negotiations. They are saying, no way does this guy hit free agency because he IS a franchise player. That's not fear. They have offered him a MASSVE engagement ring, they just haven't settled on a wedding date yet.
The team's last 3 highly paid WRs were TO, Miles and RW11... not a good investment there except perhaps TO if you ignore locker room divisiveness. So the team is right to ponder long-term commitments at the position.

But please ignore nonsense like a baby was locked in a car in the drive way... when there is no data about whose baby or if that person left the baby for even seconds before realizing the error and calling for help.
Ignore hearsay and nonsense. People's livelihoods depend on drawing as much attention to every nugget as is possible and let's face it, the media is a really tough gig right now. The career/job has changed for them.
There were sharks before but now the vast majority are all starving. The lightweights trying to make a name see this as an easy target. Dig at Dez's past then speculate or source team thoughts in the most alarmist way possible.

A deal with Dez will get done when it is done. The best thing any of us can do is ignore it and allow the agent and team to work on it. From a football stand point he'll be here and from a cap stand point he isn't likely to cost much less than that 13M anyways.

A good way to maintain your own serenity is by not trying to control everybody else's thoughts and actions...

 

[jterrell]

A good way to maintain your own serenity is by not trying to control everybody else's thoughts and actions...

ahhh the head in sand approach.
ignorance is bliss.

or you could simply try to help others and make a positive impact.

 

[ElGatoGrande]

ahhh the head in sand approach.
ignorance is bliss.

or you could simply try to help others and make a positive impact.

Oh, so you're trying to be helpful by stating the obvious and telling people how to act?

 

[BlindFaith]

the problem is that entire line of thinking.

this is dragging out because you have two sides working to get the best deal for themselves.
it doesn't logically follow that it means anything else.

it is just fodder for views and advertising.

We KNOW Dez has been offered a 100 million dollars.
The fact there is no deal means Dez isn't worried enough to take that amount.

If I were Dez and had a tape that could damage me floating about I'd have been real quick to take 20m guaranteed on a 100mil deal.
You think Ray Rice wouldn't take 20m right now?

The Cowboys have lots of reasons for not offering Calvin Johnson money that have zero to do with risk or character.

10-year, $114 million contract with only $20 million in guaranteed . So yeah, 100 mill, but spread out over 10 years. 11.4 mill a year, with less than 20% guaranteed.

So if he really has been offered that, then yes, the Cowboys aren't extremely concerned, but are still trying to protect themselves. Dez is obviously looking for a lot more than that. I wouldn't pay it. But my bigger concern with him would be his back. Especially with how he plays. There is some hesitation based on his character. I don't care for him personally and how he acts. Has he "grown" up off the field? He's stayed out of trouble. Will that change when he gets a big contract? Who knows. And it was just proven this year that you don't need a big time, top 5 paid WR to win. That's my biggest issue with even thinking about paying dez any more than 11 mill a year.

 

[Jenky]

After the loss to WAS in Week 17, Bryant could not walk because of a bad back. If the Cowboys would've won, Bryant would've missed the playoffs.

I remember several weeks went by before Bryant was cleared to start working out. Then he had back spasms again. I'm guessing they found something in his back that causes some concern long-term. No solid information. Just thinking out-loud.

Can't say I remember Dez having back issues this past season. He took one of the worst hits to his back in the 1st game against the 9ers. He played like nothing happened.

 

[Nightman]

the problem is that entire line of thinking.

this is dragging out because you have two sides working to get the best deal for themselves.
it doesn't logically follow that it means anything else.

it is just fodder for views and advertising.

We KNOW Dez has been offered a 100 million dollars.
The fact there is no deal means Dez isn't worried enough to take that amount.

If I were Dez and had a tape that could damage me floating about I'd have been real quick to take 20m guaranteed on a 100mil deal.
You think Ray Rice wouldn't take 20m right now?

The Cowboys have lots of reasons for not offering Calvin Johnson money that have zero to do with risk or character.

You usually only get one chance to turn down 100m. You have to be pretty darn sure of yourself to do so. Max Scherzer turned down a guaranteed 150m last year from the Detroit Tigers and took a lot of heat. He went out and had another great year and signed a 210m deal with WAS.

Dez knows he is betting on himself and he knows Dallas hold the cards with the Franchise Tag. He still turned down the initial offer. He would be monumentally stupid if he did this knowing there was a smoking gun out there. There are a few top WRs out there this year like DThomas and RCobb and they are all waiting for the market to get set. They don't even know what the salary cap is going to be yet. They are all betting the cap goes up and the teams blink first and sign one of them to a big deal. Worst case they know they are getting at least 12.7m on the tag.