Felix gets the Cy Young

[tko112204]

The Cy Young has nothing to do with wins. It has to do with the best pitcher in baseball.


That doesn't say, pitcher with the most wins. Wins requires the pitchers offense to score. That has nothing to do with how well the pitcher pitched.

The Cy Young belongs to Felix Hernandez. He was just flat out better than every other pitcher in the AL (and NL)

Do you have a comprehension problem, dude?

You've read my posts about baseball for the last month and you think I would be TOUTING pitcher wins as a way to decide the Cy Young?


You are unbelievable.

 

[tko112204]

I think something that really isn't factored in is pressure to win. It's not a stat, per say, but I definitely think that there is something to be said for that. IN the case of Price and C.C., I think it's relevant to say that each of those guys pitched in a much better division and that each of them pitched with much more pressure to win on every start. It's a lot harder to pitch when you know you can't make a mistake then it is when there is no pressure on you to have to win IMO.

I don't know how you measure that but I believe it's relevant.

Pressure is knowing if you give up 1 run, you lose.

 

[tko112204]

Doesn't matter, I hate him.

You know, you could ignore me.

But then that would deprive me of the joy of destroying you in every interaction we have. Thanks for being so stubborn, I guess.

 

[peplaw06]

I think something that really isn't factored in is pressure to win. It's not a stat, per say, but I definitely think that there is something to be said for that. IN the case of Price and C.C., I think it's relevant to say that each of those guys pitched in a much better division and that each of them pitched with much more pressure to win on every start. It's a lot harder to pitch when you know you can't make a mistake then it is when there is no pressure on you to have to win IMO.

I don't know how you measure that but I believe it's relevant.

Felix couldn't make a mistake. Lots of games, he couldn't give up one run or he was going to lose.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

Pressure is knowing if you give up 1 run, you lose.

Correct. I mean, if you know 1 run and you lose, that's a lot of pressure. If your pitching on a team that is out of it by June or July, it's not as much pressure. If you win, that's great. If you lose, your out of it so the same kind of pressure is not there.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

Felix couldn't make a mistake. Lots of games, he couldn't give up one run or he was going to lose.

Right, but if you lose, big deal. I mean obviously right. The guy has more losses then wins so winning and losing was not a big deal. It's a lot easier to pitch with no pressure then it is when you have half a game difference between 2 or 3 teams the majority of the seasons. That's pressure.

 

[YosemiteSam]

Do you have a comprehension problem, dude?

You've read my posts about baseball for the last month and you think I would be TOUTING pitcher wins as a way to decide the Cy Young?


You are unbelievable.

Go away bat ****

 

[YosemiteSam]

You know, you could ignore me.

But then that would deprive me of the joy of destroying you in every interaction we have. Thanks for being so stubborn, I guess.

I don't ignore you just so I can berate you.

 

[AdamJT13]

I think something that really isn't factored in is pressure to win. It's not a stat, per say, but I definitely think that there is something to be said for that. IN the case of Price and C.C., I think it's relevant to say that each of those guys pitched in a much better division and that each of them pitched with much more pressure to win on every start. It's a lot harder to pitch when you know you can't make a mistake then it is when there is no pressure on you to have to win IMO.

I don't know how you measure that but I believe it's relevant.

It's also a lot easier to pitch when you know you can give up three runs or more and your team will still win, which was the case in 11 of Sabathia's starts and eight of Price's starts. For Felix, it happened only TWICE -- in his first two starts, when he allowed three runs in each game (two earned runs in one) and won 4-3 and 5-3. After that, giving up as many as three runs ALWAYS meant that his team lost.

I'd much rather pitch in a high-pressure game with a good offense on my side (not to mention a stellar bullpen to clean up after me) than in any game with little or no run support and a crummy bullpen.

 

[peplaw06]

Right, but if you lose, big deal. I mean obviously right. The guy has more losses then wins so winning and losing was not a big deal. It's a lot easier to pitch with no pressure then it is when you have half a game difference between 2 or 3 teams the majority of the seasons. That's pressure.

He didn't have more losses than wins. And what Adam said.

BTW, I meant to ask last post. How excited are you for NCAA b-ball?

 

[Temo]

Yes, but the other side of that is that you didn't have middle relief or closers or any of that kind of thing in those days. You also didn't pitch on a 5 pitcher rotation. Fields were bigger, I grant you that and the ball was not as live but you can also make the point that training was not as advanced, you didn't have the kind of dietary or supplemental aids that you have today. You also didn't have things like HGH or roids or whatever else. It was a different game, that's true but nothing suggests to me that the game has gotten tougher then it was then.

I'm not trying to argue that Felix is better than Koufax in his prime (though I would argue that Maddux, Clemens, and Martinez had better peaks, speaking of recent pitchers).

Just saying in terms of run support, it's hard to find a recent pitcher who had a worse time of it than Hernandez.

 

[Temo]

Sounds like opinion to me.

It'd be hard to find anyone who'd say that Players take these awards as seriously as writers. Writers spend months arguing about these things, the players couldn't care less, unless they're in the running for an award.

 

[YosemiteSam]

It'd be hard to find anyone who'd say that Players take these awards as seriously as writers. Writers spend months arguing about these things, the players couldn't care less, unless they're in the running for an award.

The writers also re-voted Brian Cushing Defensive Rookie of the Year after finding out he used a performance enhancing substance.

Now that he isn't abusing them anymore, he looks quite average wouldn't you say.

 

[Stautner]

I think something that really isn't factored in is pressure to win. It's not a stat, per say, but I definitely think that there is something to be said for that. IN the case of Price and C.C., I think it's relevant to say that each of those guys pitched in a much better division and that each of them pitched with much more pressure to win on every start. It's a lot harder to pitch when you know you can't make a mistake then it is when there is no pressure on you to have to win IMO.

I don't know how you measure that but I believe it's relevant.

I agree that it's relevent, along with a lot of other things like if a pitcher can suck it up or if he relaxes when he is behind or ahead, and how he pitches on the road in hostil venues, and how he handles all sorts of different situations, but, again, those things ar much more difficult to measure.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

It'd be hard to find anyone who'd say that Players take these awards as seriously as writers. Writers spend months arguing about these things, the players couldn't care less, unless they're in the running for an award.

I'm sorry Temo, I can't agree with you here. A lot of these writers just mail it in. Heck, a lot of writers don't even watch a lot of the players. East Coast guys don't pay a lot of attention to West Coast guys many times and Vice Versa. At least the players see all of these guys. Some writers pay close attention but many do not.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

I agree that it's relevent, along with a lot of other things like if a pitcher can suck it up or if he relaxes when he is behind or ahead, and how he pitches on the road in hostil venues, and how he handles all sorts of different situations, but, again, those things ar much more difficult to measure.

I agree. So many factors that don't really get evaluated many times. Honestly, I think you almost have to be part of the game to really understand fully what certain players go through during a season. I really don't have a huge problem with Felix winning it. I would not have voted for him, I would have voted for Price but I can certainly understand the rational behind a vote for Felix.