First Take on Who Should be Highest Paid Defensive Player

[TheSport78]

Demarcus Ware has sustained excellence over his entire career, with a sample size bigger than 2 years. I'm not saying Clay Matthews will taper, but I am saying that -- for my money -- I'll go with the most dominant pass-rusher of the last half-decade, regardless of plays in the Super Bowl.


Ay there, no need to grow your e-peen. I see you have over 4,000 posts -- bravo and all that jazz. I didn't see "Clay Matthews" as a convincing argument, nor did I see "he made a play in the SUPER BOWL" to be a justifiable retort. At least this time you took some time to put merit to your reason.

Ware has had a more consistent career, I did not deny that, but who is playing better RIGHT NOW? Clay Matthews is and it's pretty clear. Matthews is actually on pace for a better career from where Ware was after his 2nd NFL season. Who knows what will happen in the future? Right now, Matthews gets the edge for me.

Another debate was Romo vs Rodgers before this year. I defended Romo against all the Eagle fans in my family, who said Rodgers was better before the 2010 season. After this year, it's obvious that Rodgers is now the better QB. But at the time (before the 2010 season), Rodgers didn't have a division title, and zero playoff wins. Now he has 3 more playoff wins than Romo, and most importantly, he has a ring. So does Matthews. Green Bay's best players are Rodgers and Matthews in my opinion.

PS Creating the biggest turnover in the Super Bowl has no merit to you?

 

[tko112204]

Ware has had a more consistent career, I did not deny that, but who is playing better RIGHT NOW? Clay Matthews is and it's pretty clear. Matthews is actually on pace for a better career from where Ware was after his 2nd NFL season. Who knows what will happen in the future? Right now, Matthews gets the edge for me.

Another debate was Romo vs Rodgers before this year. I defended Romo against all the Eagle fans in my family, who said Rodgers was better before the 2010 season. After this year, it's obvious that Rodgers is now the better QB. But at the time (before the 2010 season), Rodgers didn't have a division title, and zero playoff wins. Now he has 3 more playoff wins than Romo, and most importantly, he has a ring. So does Matthews. Green Bay's best players are Rodgers and Matthews in my opinion.

PS Creating the biggest turnover in the Super Bowl has no merit to you?

C'mon man. Did he hit Mendenhall harder because it was the Super Bowl? That's a dumb argument.

He forced that fumble because he hits guys hard. And he happened to hit a guy hard in the Super Bowl. He's a great player, and he made "bigger" plays than Ware this year. But Ware has proven year over year that no matter who is next to him, and no matter how good his team is, he is very hard to contain. Probably the hardest to contain in all facets of the game.

If I had to choose which one to make the highest paid player in the league, for the next 4-5 years, I would pick Demarcus Ware. He's the gold standard.

 

[TheSport78]

C'mon man. Did he hit Mendenhall harder because it was the Super Bowl? That's a dumb argument.

He forced that fumble because he hits guys hard. And he happened to hit a guy hard in the Super Bowl. He's a great player, and he made "bigger" plays than Ware this year. But Ware has proven year over year that no matter who is next to him, and no matter how good his team is, he is very hard to contain. Probably the hardest to contain in all facets of the game.

If I had to choose which one to make the highest paid player in the league, for the next 4-5 years, I would pick Demarcus Ware. He's the gold standard.

The point is, big players make big plays in big game situations, and Matthews has done that MORE RECENTLY than Demarcus Ware. Ware may very well end up having the better career, but right now I'm taking Matthews. The NFL is a what have you done for me lately league, and I see Matthews generating huge turnovers, especially in the Super Bowl.

 

[Fletch]

Sorry. But Ware is a better athlete than Matthews. Clay is a heckuva football player, but D-Ware is better.

 

[Fletch]

The point is, big players make big plays in big game situations, and Matthews has done that MORE RECENTLY than Demarcus Ware. Ware may very well end up having the better career, but right now I'm taking Matthews. The NFL is a what have you done for me lately league, and I see Matthews generating huge turnovers, especially in the Super Bowl.

Doesn't hurt to have Dom Capers in your corner either. D-coordinators help put the players in the positions to succeed. We had Wade Phillips and Pasqualoni as Ware's coordinators for last season. You do the math.

Wade is a good defensive mind, but he was lost as our HC, and lost on his players before leaving town. Paul and his love for Zone defense just plain sucked.

I bet ya money that you'll be back on the Ware wagon when you see Rob Ryan put his mark on this defense.

You can have your Matthews. I'll take my Ware!

 

[TheSport78]

Sorry. But Ware is a better athlete than Matthews. Clay is a heckuva football player, but D-Ware is better.

So being a better athlete now makes you a better football player? I guess Teddy Williams is the best player on our team then.

Doesn't hurt to have Dom Capers in your corner either. D-coordinators help put the players in the positions to succeed. We had Wade Phillips and Pasqualoni as Ware's coordinators for last season. You do the math.

Wade is a good defensive mind, but he was lost as our HC, and lost on his players before leaving town. Paul and his love for Zone defense just plain sucked.

I bet ya money that you'll be back on the Ware wagon when you see Rob Ryan put his mark on this defense.

You can have your Matthews. I'll take my Ware!

So Wade had nothing to do with Ware and his 20 sack season in 2008 then, correct? Position or coordinator coaches hardly get praise but always get criticized when their unit underperforms (see Dave Campo). Was anyone talking about the great job Campo did in 2009 with Mike Jenkins' progression? Nope. So I'm not buying that Matthews had better coaching.

I'm not off the Ware bandwagon at all. He's a tremendous talent who had a year not up to his standards.

See Matthews already has a Super Bowl ring, and made a huge play/turnover in the Super Bowl, so the only way he can continue to be better, is if the associated press announces him as the defensive player of the year, or at least close to the honor. Oh wait, Polamulu only beat out Matthews by two votes. Did Ware get any votes? No. Some Dallas fans need to get off of their high horses and look at things objectively. Some of us, including myself, seem to overvalue AND undervalue our talent at the same time.

 

[tyke1doe]

That happens to every passrusher in the league, nobody is unblockable.

True. But I think of the term being applied to someone who gets to the quarterback or pressures the quarterback more often than not. But even then that's relative. Maybe the term shouldn't be used at all.

 

[casmith07]

The difference between Matthews and Ware is that Ware routinely does things like sniff out screen passes, etc. If you run at Matthews, you can run right by him.

 

[casmith07]

He's the best pass rusher in the league, we got it too good with him and people don't appreciate it, same with Witten. Its despicable.

This x 1,000,000.

 

[TNCowboy]

So being a better athlete now makes you a better football player? I guess Teddy Williams is the best player on our team then.

So Wade had nothing to do with Ware and his 20 sack season in 2008 then, correct? Position or coordinator coaches hardly get praise but always get criticized when their unit underperforms (see Dave Campo). Was anyone talking about the great job Campo did in 2009 with Mike Jenkins' progression? Nope. So I'm not buying that Matthews had better coaching.

I'm not off the Ware bandwagon at all. He's a tremendous talent who had a year not up to his standards.

See Matthews already has a Super Bowl ring, and made a huge play/turnover in the Super Bowl, so the only way he can continue to be better, is if the associated press announces him as the defensive player of the year, or at least close to the honor. Oh wait, Polamulu only beat out Matthews by two votes. Did Ware get any votes? No. Some Dallas fans need to get off of their high horses and look at things objectively. Some of us, including myself, seem to overvalue AND undervalue our talent at the same time.

It's only a one year snapshot, but Matthews was a better player than Ware this year. I don't see how that's debatable by anyone who watched both that Matthews wasn't better.

That doesn't mean that he always will be, just that he was this year. Maybe - as some guess - he's on steroids and his play will fall off after he's caught. But if he isn't, the Pack are fortunate to have someone so good who's so young.

Matthews plays with the mean streak that Ware never has. Ware's aggression has always seemed a notch below the leagues best defenders, and I've always thought it hampered him. Athletically, I think he's the most talented defender in the league. Maybe Ryan can bring that out of him.

 

[Doomsday101]

It's only a one year snapshot, but Matthews was a better player than Ware this year. I don't see how that's debatable by anyone who watched both that Matthews wasn't better.

That doesn't mean that he always will be, just that he was this year. Maybe - as some guess - he's on steroids and his play will fall off after he's caught. But if he isn't, the Pack are fortunate to have someone so good who's so young.

Matthews plays with the mean streak that Ware never has. Ware's aggression has always seemed a notch below the leagues best defenders, and I've always thought it hampered him. Athletically, I think he's the most talented defender in the league. Maybe Ryan can bring that out of him.

I think the play around Matthews was better also. It helps when other members of the defense are making plays both along the line and in the secondary

 

[TheSport78]

It's only a one year snapshot, but Matthews was a better player than Ware this year. I don't see how that's debatable by anyone who watched both that Matthews wasn't better.

That doesn't mean that he always will be, just that he was this year. Maybe - as some guess - he's on steroids and his play will fall off after he's caught. But if he isn't, the Pack are fortunate to have someone so good who's so young.

Matthews plays with the mean streak that Ware never has. Ware's aggression has always seemed a notch below the leagues best defenders, and I've always thought it hampered him. Athletically, I think he's the most talented defender in the league. Maybe Ryan can bring that out of him.

I agree with this 100%. Well said!

 

[blindzebra]

I can't wait until Matthews fails a drug test.

Roid-boy can't carry Ware's jock.

 

[Derinyar]

It's only a one year snapshot, but Matthews was a better player than Ware this year. I don't see how that's debatable by anyone who watched both that Matthews wasn't better.

That doesn't mean that he always will be, just that he was this year. Maybe - as some guess - he's on steroids and his play will fall off after he's caught. But if he isn't, the Pack are fortunate to have someone so good who's so young.

Matthews plays with the mean streak that Ware never has. Ware's aggression has always seemed a notch below the leagues best defenders, and I've always thought it hampered him. Athletically, I think he's the most talented defender in the league. Maybe Ryan can bring that out of him.

It's only a one year snapshot but Matthews was on a better defense then Ware was this year. That allowed him to make more big plays people noticed because he was in more "big situations". Matthews is a good player who works well in the Dom Capers Scheme. Ware, I think, is a great player who would work well in any scheme. I think if you switched Matthews and Ware last year that Ware would have equaled Matthews numbers but that Matthews wouldn't have equaled Ware's numbers. Yes I know that is just an opinion and completely testable, but everyone else is just lobbing out unfounded opinions also.

 

[tyke1doe]

It's only a one year snapshot, but Matthews was a better player than Ware this year. I don't see how that's debatable by anyone who watched both that Matthews wasn't better.

That doesn't mean that he always will be, just that he was this year. Maybe - as some guess - he's on steroids and his play will fall off after he's caught. But if he isn't, the Pack are fortunate to have someone so good who's so young.

Matthews plays with the mean streak that Ware never has. Ware's aggression has always seemed a notch below the leagues best defenders, and I've always thought it hampered him. Athletically, I think he's the most talented defender in the league. Maybe Ryan can bring that out of him.

Very good post. I agree.

 

[Shinywalrus]

It's only a one year snapshot, but Matthews was a better player than Ware this year. I don't see how that's debatable by anyone who watched both that Matthews wasn't better.

That doesn't mean that he always will be, just that he was this year. Maybe - as some guess - he's on steroids and his play will fall off after he's caught. But if he isn't, the Pack are fortunate to have someone so good who's so young.

Matthews plays with the mean streak that Ware never has. Ware's aggression has always seemed a notch below the leagues best defenders, and I've always thought it hampered him. Athletically, I think he's the most talented defender in the league. Maybe Ryan can bring that out of him.

You don't see how it's debatable? There are literally dozens of dimensions on which it's debatable, but to say something that bluntly and follow it up with a qualitative discourse on who plays "with a mean streak" is just silly.

Anyway, as to the original question, here's how I'd pay defensive players:

1. Haloti Ngata
2. Demarcus Ware
3. James Harrison
4. Dwight Freeney
5. Patrick Willis
6. Justin Smith
7. Julius Peppers
8. Kevin Williams
9. Nnamdi Asomugha
10. Trent Cole

When Suh learns not to overpursue on every snap, he should be on this list. Matthews clearly has a lot of potential, but he's still not as good as Ware or Harrison.

 

[MarionBarberThe4th]

You don't see how it's debatable? There are literally dozens of dimensions on which it's debatable, but to say something that bluntly and follow it up with a qualitative discourse on who plays "with a mean streak" is just silly.

Anyway, as to the original question, here's how I'd pay defensive players:

1. Haloti Ngata
2. Demarcus Ware
3. James Harrison
4. Dwight Freeney
5. Patrick Willis
6. Justin Smith
7. Julius Peppers
8. Kevin Williams
9. Nnamdi Asomugha
10. Trent Cole

When Suh learns not to overpursue on every snap, he should be on this list. Matthews clearly has a lot of potential, but he's still not as good as Ware or Harrison.

You must be related to Justin Smith and you also must have been abused by Darrel Revis in the past

 

[Shinywalrus]

You must be related to Justin Smith and you also must have been abused by Darrel Revis in the past

Thanks for trolling and not providing any thoughts of your own beyond unimaginative criticism!

Justin Smith is the best 3-4 interior lineman in the NFL. I would absolutely pay him as a top 10 defensive player; the only offset is his advanced age, but his last few seasons have been as good as any in his career.

Revis is certainly arguable, but corner performance tends to be highly variable and highly dependent upon safety support, scheme and pass rush. I'd be very uncomfortable devoting top-10 player money to a cornerback. Asomugha has proven to be consistent, more akin to Champ Bailey. He hasn't had a season like Revis' 2009, but he's strung together several very high quality seasons at CB.

 

[MarionBarberThe4th]

Revis covers all the top WR's in the league 1 on 1 . Even if he did have safety help who were his safeties? Jim Leohnard and Kerry Rhodes for a year?


Shut down corner > JAG DE