Fisher: Source 'narrowing focus' to Surtain and Horn

[CowboyRoy]

He played 20 games.

Played 10, then retired, then played another 10?

 

[Hawkeye0202]

Hate to say it, but the Cowboys have to go with the safer pick. The downside of Horn not "panning out" is bigger than the upside of Surtain being ready to go NOW. Physical traits are in born for the most part, but technique takes years to develop. For example, if Horn bites on a double move, the receiver is going to be long gone, no NFL receiver is THAT much slower than a speedy cornerback, even a 4.6 forty receiver covers several yards in a second or two, Horn at best might be able to chase him down after a 30-40-50 yard run IF the catch is made inside their own 50, but a catch like on Dallas' 30? Touchdown. Technique keeps the catch from being made, the ball being thrown there anyway or yardage restricted to where the actual catch was.

It's a minor thing, yes, not saying Horn isn't an excellent prospect. But with Gallup, Williams, Gregory, Armstrong and others being free agents after this year, and Neal, et al on one year deals, Dallas has to make a push for the SB, even if they think they're not "ready for prime time" or at the least see how players respond when the pressure's on to get to the playoffs or play in the playoffs. Don't get there this year, going to be a LOT of changes next year....

It's why a CB once said he can reduce a 4.3 WR speed to 4.4 or 4.5.

 

[Sydla]

Good point, the LVE neck issue that I didn't really worry about sure bit us.

Same here. I just assumed it was a one off thing and since he had been cleared, it was all good.

Shame because Phillips has all the tools to be a stud IMO. But that medical rap sheet is concerning. Even if he were to be cleared medically prior to the draft, I'd still have some real concerns about him. At this point, I just assume that if we took him, he'd battle injuries his entire time here but if he goes somewhere else he develops into an elite DE. LOL.

 

[Stash]

Hate to say it, but the Cowboys have to go with the safer pick. The downside of Horn not "panning out" is bigger than the upside of Surtain being ready to go NOW. Physical traits are in born for the most part, but technique takes years to develop. For example, if Horn bites on a double move, the receiver is going to be long gone, no NFL receiver is THAT much slower than a speedy cornerback, even a 4.6 forty receiver covers several yards in a second or two, Horn at best might be able to chase him down after a 30-40-50 yard run IF the catch is made inside their own 50, but a catch like on Dallas' 30? Touchdown. Technique keeps the catch from being made, the ball being thrown there anyway or yardage restricted to where the actual catch was.

It's a minor thing, yes, not saying Horn isn't an excellent prospect. But with Gallup, Williams, Gregory, Armstrong and others being free agents after this year, and Neal, et al on one year deals, Dallas has to make a push for the SB, even if they think they're not "ready for prime time" or at the least see how players respond when the pressure's on to get to the playoffs or play in the playoffs. Don't get there this year, going to be a LOT of changes next year....

I think the potential changes you mention need to be addressed this year, in this draft.

In addition to a starting corner, I think you need at least one safety, two linebackers, at least two defensive tackles, and at least one defensive end option.

 

[Sydla]

I think the potential changes you mention need to be addressed this year, in this draft.

In addition to a starting corner, I think you need at least one safety, two linebackers, at least two defensive tackles, and at least one defensive end option.

And you aren't going to get nearly all those slots filled in this draft.

 

[LACowboysFan1]

I know Randy didn’t play the whole year

That's the thing with Gregory - has never played a full season. But having said that - he could be "fresh", or he could have missed so much time he'll never be able to play a full season. Also, only 10 games last year, 3.5 sacks. Over a full 17 games that'd be only about 6, but I'm sure it would have taken him a few games to get back in shape, the 3.5 sacks came in only 6 games. If he has a full camp and pre-season, he might do much better.

Lots of uncertainty there, hopefully there will be a full slate of pre-season games, and he'll play a good bit in those so we'll have something to look at...

 

[Hawkeye0202]

I think the potential changes you mention need to be addressed this year, in this draft.

In addition to a starting corner, I think you need at least one safety, two linebackers, at least two defensive tackles, and at least one defensive end option.

LOL.......so you wanna rebuild the entire D with one draft???? I agree we need all this but that's some serious salad you asking for

 

[LACowboysFan1]

And you aren't going to get nearly all those slots filled in this draft.

Agreed, but you have to start. You have to assume your no. 10 pick will be a starter, that's one of the spots mentioned, and you can have hopes your no. 44 pick can be also.

Got Lamb and Diggs last year, let's keep it going!

 

[LACowboysFan1]

Much bigger issues. Phillips is a major injury risk. Lowest need in our defense. Pass!

How many games has Phillips missed in college because on injury? Too funny. How many times has Phillips retired from football.

Cowboys aren't a team that can take that chance....

 

[Stash]

LOL.......so you wanna rebuild the entire D with one draft???? I agree we need all this but that's some serious salad you asking for

Based on last year's awful records set for futility? I'd say that you have to.

Take a look at the projected lineup and their futures:

• Who are your defensive tackles? Gallimore and Hill? One is a bust and the other can be upgraded.
• What about linebacker? LVE is ne hit from retirement and Jaylon Smith regressed and is overpaid on a bad contract. Any guarantees that either or both are here next year? Neal is on a one year rental deal so there's plenty of room to add to the group, now and for the future.
• Safety? Wilson may be the SS, but they've certainly been reluctant to anoint him. And Kazee is a one year rental coming off of Achilles surgery.
• Defensive end? Gregory is on a one year deal and Lawrence is overpaid and declining in production. I see little to nothing behind them, certainly nothing proven or established.

I'm not suggesting I can fin a home run at every position, but I think this team has to draft other options to add to the mix.

 

[LACowboysFan1]

In addition to a starting corner, I think you need at least one safety, two linebackers, at least two defensive tackles, and at least one defensive end option.

Agreed those are needs, but really Dallas needs another OT as well, don't care what Jerry says, but BOTH starting tackles coming off surgery, what are the odds that both will be back to 100%, or even 90%? Can't be good...

 

[Hawkeye0202]

Based on last year's awful records set for futility? I'd say that you have to.

Take a look at the projected lineup and their futures:

• Who are your defensive tackles? Gallimore and Hill? One is a bust and the other can be upgraded.
• What about linebacker? LVE is ne hit from retirement and Jaylon Smith regressed and is overpaid on a bad contract. Any guarantees that either or both are here next year? Neal is on a one year rental deal so there's plenty of room to add to the group, now and for the future.
• Safety? Wilson may be the SS, but they've certainly been reluctant to anoint him. And Kazee is a one year rental coming off of Achilles surgery.
• Defensive end? Gregory is on a one year deal and Lawrence is overpaid and declining in production. I see little to nothing behind them, certainly nothing proven or established.

I'm not suggesting I can fin a home run at every position, but I think this team has to draft other options to add to the mix.

Our first three rounds ( 4 picks I think ) are critical .......... the problem with Jerry and company is sometimes they get too cute rather than trusting their board and/or scouts.

 

[Hawkeye0202]

Agreed, but you have to start. You have to assume your no. 10 pick will be a starter, that's one of the spots mentioned, and you can have hopes your no. 44 pick can be also.

Got Lamb and Diggs last year, let's keep it going!

Play your cards right, there NO reason 44 shouldn't start his rookie year, maybe not day one but by the end of the season, yea.

 

[Sydla]

Agreed, but you have to start. You have to assume your no. 10 pick will be a starter, that's one of the spots mentioned, and you can have hopes your no. 44 pick can be also.

Got Lamb and Diggs last year, let's keep it going!

But this is the flaw of their roster building plan where they claim they will eschew FA for any real improvement and instead fill their holes in the draft. So let's say we get a CB and a DT out of this draft. Great. Next year we get a LB and DE or S. Great. But then suddenly, whoops, OL is an issue as Martin and Smith have broken down with injuries, etc.

If you just build entirely out of the draft, you'll likely never had as complete a roster as you can because while you are spending years fixing holes in the draft, other ones likely crop up over that period. It's patently stupid way to build a roster yet Jerry and Stephen think they have found the pot of gold.

 

[Zekeats]

A better pass rush cures a lot of ills on defense.

Tell that to our gm who’s gonna load up on defensive backs again. Just like they did with Carr Claiborne mike Jenkins scandrick and awusie Lewis. How’s that worked out for our amazing defenses?

 

[CalPolyTechnique]

Played 10, then retired, then played another 10?

Yes, confirmed by www.google.com

 

[waving monkey]

No it’s not a need at all. Gregory is fine with weed penalties gone. You going to depend on a college player one concussion away from retirement? Wouldn’t touch the kid till the 3rd round.
DT is the problem.

thank you

 

[CowboyRoy]

Yes, confirmed by www.google.com

Doenst change much for me. He is still unreliable injury risk. I cant believe anyone would even consider him in the first round.

 

[waving monkey]

DLaw is 29 and Randy is 28 and never played a full season. They had combined under 10 sacks last year. I know Randy didn’t play the whole year but it’s definitely a massive need. We can move ppl around we need interior and edge. No interior player even close to being worth pick 10 of course.

lets get a concussion history player

 

[J-man]

Right back at you. Do more reading. Payne is ranked over him in most drafts. Phillips retired for concussions. Played 10 games in college. 8 sacks. I’ll pass.

He would sit behind Lawrence and Gregory.

Paye will be nothing but an ave DE in the NFL. Most evaluators/scouts have Phillips higher.
He did "retire from concussions", mainly to get out of UCLA. He never wanted to go there, his parents made him go. The minute he got out and at Miami he was completely healthy and a beast. He compares to many of the best pass rushers that have come out in the last 10 years.
He may not start over Gregory at first, but Gregory can never be fully counted on and hasn't been great anyway. He will certainly give us a great true pass rusher to pair with D-Law. Pass rushers are always in need.