"Fix defense" too broad -- "fix run defense"

[DasSchnitzel]

The defense is 32nd against the run, giving up 156 yards per game and 15 touchdowns through 11 games. In 5 of 8 losses, Dallas gave up less than 202 yards of passing. Teams don't even need to throw on us.

I understand wanting to throw high value picks at flashy positions like CB but if we can't stop the run better than this, then it really doesn't matter if we draft a CB in the top 10. TB and NO are both giving up less than 75 ypg on the ground. Just think about how much easier everything else would be if we were giving up half as many rushing yards per game.

I believe with defense you should build away from the center. Defensive tackles, interior linebackers, free safety. Adding a CB with a top 10 pick to a defense that can't stop the run at all is such a Cleveland Browns move. By all means get a good DB if it falls to you but don't confuse adding a top 10 pick at DB with fixing the defense, because a shutdown CB doesn't matter when teams can run at will on you.

I already made the thread about Micah Parsons, who's a great run stopper. I've commented a few times about Shelvin, who also gets props as a run stopper. Could I get recommendations on other day 2/early day 3 picks that grade well against the run?

 

[cnuball21]

The defense is 32nd against the run, giving up 156 yards per game and 15 touchdowns through 11 games. In 5 of 8 losses, Dallas gave up less than 202 yards of passing. Teams don't even need to throw on us.

I understand wanting to throw high value picks at flashy positions like CB but if we can't stop the run better than this, then it really doesn't matter if we draft a CB in the top 10. TB and NO are both giving up less than 75 ypg on the ground. Just think about how much easier everything else would be if we were giving up half as many rushing yards per game.

I believe with defense you should build away from the center. Defensive tackles, interior linebackers, free safety. Adding a CB with a top 10 pick to a defense that can't stop the run at all is such a Cleveland Browns move. By all means get a good DB if it falls to you but don't confuse adding a top 10 pick at DB with fixing the defense, because a shutdown CB doesn't matter when teams can run at will on you.

I already made the thread about Micah Parsons, who's a great run stopper. I've commented a few times about Shelvin, who also gets props as a run stopper. Could I get recommendations on other day 2/early day 3 picks that grade well against the run?

We do need CBs but I agree to an extent defense starts with stopping the run. If we could land Parsons, a Safety and a solid DT I think that would go a long ways.

Hopefully Hill or Gallimore can turn into something too.

 

[Cowboyny]

I would change the base scheme (run downs) to more of a 3-4 front which is designed to stop the run. This is what New England has done in the past. Bring in big personnel up front. This will go a long way in fixing the run defense.

 

[xwalker]

The defense is 32nd against the run, giving up 156 yards per game and 15 touchdowns through 11 games. In 5 of 8 losses, Dallas gave up less than 202 yards of passing. Teams don't even need to throw on us.

I understand wanting to throw high value picks at flashy positions like CB but if we can't stop the run better than this, then it really doesn't matter if we draft a CB in the top 10. TB and NO are both giving up less than 75 ypg on the ground. Just think about how much easier everything else would be if we were giving up half as many rushing yards per game.

I believe with defense you should build away from the center. Defensive tackles, interior linebackers, free safety. Adding a CB with a top 10 pick to a defense that can't stop the run at all is such a Cleveland Browns move. By all means get a good DB if it falls to you but don't confuse adding a top 10 pick at DB with fixing the defense, because a shutdown CB doesn't matter when teams can run at will on you.

I already made the thread about Micah Parsons, who's a great run stopper. I've commented a few times about Shelvin, who also gets props as a run stopper. Could I get recommendations on other day 2/early day 3 picks that grade well against the run?

Rookies
The draft should not be focused on the needs of the upcoming season.

The performance of rookies during their rookie seasons tends to be unpredictable.


Run Stopping
Run stopping type DTs are available after the 1st round.

First round DTs should be elite at both pass rushing and run stopping.

 

[DasSchnitzel]

Rookies
The draft should not be focused on the needs of the upcoming season.

The performance of rookies during their rookie seasons tends to be unpredictable.


Run Stopping
Run stopping type DTs are available after the 1st round.

First round DTs should be elite at both pass rushing and run stopping.

Stopping the run is not a need for the upcoming season, it's a need forever, always has been. We're not even playing the same sport as most of the NFL right now we're so bad at run stopping.

Teams are beating us with more rushing yards than passing yards. In the year 2020.

Come on guys.

We are at this point so bad at run defense that saying "you can't draft with needs in mind" is about the same as telling a QB needy team that they shouldn't draft a QB just because they need one.

Yall are always clamoring for DTs and now there isn't one at 4 so you guys are going full Cleveland Brows mode and hoping for a CB instead.

 

[stilltheguru]

Stopping the run is not a need for the upcoming season, it's a need forever, always has been. We're not even playing the same sport as most of the NFL right now we're so bad at run stopping.

Teams are beating us with more rushing yards than passing yards. In the year 2020.

Come on guys.

We are at this point so bad at run defense that saying "you can't draft with needs in mind" is about the same as telling a QB needy team that they shouldn't draft a QB just because they need one.

Yall are always clamoring for DTs and now there isn't one at 4 so you guys are going full Cleveland Brows mode and hoping for a CB instead.

Parsons isnt changing our run d.

 

[xwalker]

Stopping the run is not a need for the upcoming season, it's a need forever, always has been. We're not even playing the same sport as most of the NFL right now we're so bad at run stopping.

Teams are beating us with more rushing yards than passing yards. In the year 2020.

Come on guys.

We are at this point so bad at run defense that saying "you can't draft with needs in mind" is about the same as telling a QB needy team that they shouldn't draft a QB just because they need one.

Yall are always clamoring for DTs and now there isn't one at 4 so you guys are going full Cleveland Brows mode and hoping for a CB instead.

Completely wrong with regards to the meaning of need.

Need is about the players that you need.

Obviously stopping the run is needed every season but the team that finishes 2020 with the best run defense probably does not list run stopping DTs as a need.

I've said jokingly multiple times recently that they should use all 2020 picks on DTs. It was a joke to emphasize what they are lacking this season.

Run stopping DTs are don't cost a premium in picks or free agent dollars unless they're also explosive pass rushers.

They need to sign a quality run stopping DT in free agency. Something in the 8M to 10M per year range instead of multiple lower cost players like Poe 4.5M, McCoy 6M and Griffen 6M per and keeping Crawford at 8M in 2020.

Those run stoppers don't get huge money because they come off the field on 3rd and long and other obvious passing situations.

Unfortunately DT is not the only reason for their struggles in run defense.

An elite CB does indeed help run defense. An elite CB can cover a.WR without help which allows a Safety to come down in run defense or allows a deep Safety to shift to the other side and help the CB or CB(s) in Nickel which in turn free ups the LBs from help coverage responsibilities.

The top goal of the draft is to obtain high quality, low cost players. A pick is never a failed pick if that player turns out to be a quality NFL starter. If there are existing players at the same position then the team has the option to not spend huge cap dollars to retain those players or they can be traded but the vast majority of the time those situations work themselves out due to injuries or declining performance of the existing players.

Saved cap dollars at one position can pay to obtain players at other positions.

The probability of draft success is greatly improved if team don't over-focus on need.

The best strategy would be to look at the need 1.5 years from the current draft (i.e. A full season after the current draft).

Long term planning has been a big component of the Patriots success. Belichick just accepts that some seasons will be down years and does not over-focus on immediate need. He drafted a player in 2019 specifically to replace Kyle Van Noy when he departed in 2020. He didn't draft that player for 2019.

 

[Xavier187]

You need Cbs and a LB. Atleast 2 CBS.
So vo from there

 

[cnuball21]

Parsons isnt changing our run d.

Im sorry...what? Have you been watching Jaylon play football recently?

 

[kskboys]

Im sorry...what? Have you been watching Jaylon play football recently?

Ann Kendricks would improve our run D.

 

[kskboys]

Completely wrong with regards to the meaning of need.

Need is about the players that you need.

Obviously stopping the run is needed every season but the team that finishes 2020 with the best run defense probably does not list run stopping DTs as a need.

I've said jokingly multiple times recently that they should use all 2020 picks on DTs. It was a joke to emphasize what they are lacking this season.

Run stopping DTs are don't cost a premium in picks or free agent dollars unless they're also explosive pass rushers.

They need to sign a quality run stopping DT in free agency. Something in the 8M to 10M per year range instead of multiple lower cost players like Poe 4.5M, McCoy 6M and Griffen 6M per and keeping Crawford at 8M in 2020.

Those run stoppers don't get huge money because they come off the field on 3rd and long and other obvious passing situations.

Unfortunately DT is not the only reason for their struggles in run defense.

An elite CB does indeed help run defense. An elite CB can cover a.WR without help which allows a Safety to come down in run defense or allows a deep Safety to shift to the other side and help the CB or CB(s) in Nickel which in turn free ups the LBs from help coverage responsibilities.

The top goal of the draft is to obtain high quality, low cost players. A pick is never a failed pick if that player turns out to be a quality NFL starter. If there are existing players at the same position then the team has the option to not spend huge cap dollars to retain those players or they can be traded but the vast majority of the time those situations work themselves out due to injuries or declining performance of the existing players.

Saved cap dollars at one position can pay to obtain players at other positions.

The probability of draft success is greatly improved if team don't over-focus on need.

The best strategy would be to look at the need 1.5 years from the current draft (i.e. A full season after the current draft).

Long term planning has been a big component of the Patriots success. Belichick just accepts that some seasons will be down years and does not over-focus on immediate need. He drafted a player in 2019 specifically to replace Kyle Van Noy when he departed in 2020. He didn't draft that player for 2019.

All that wasted salary while Cincy signed ultra disruptive run stopper/pocket collapser DJ Reader for 13 mil/season. Very poor personnel understanding.

 

[kskboys]

The defense is 32nd against the run, giving up 156 yards per game and 15 touchdowns through 11 games. In 5 of 8 losses, Dallas gave up less than 202 yards of passing. Teams don't even need to throw on us.

I understand wanting to throw high value picks at flashy positions like CB but if we can't stop the run better than this, then it really doesn't matter if we draft a CB in the top 10. TB and NO are both giving up less than 75 ypg on the ground. Just think about how much easier everything else would be if we were giving up half as many rushing yards per game.

I believe with defense you should build away from the center. Defensive tackles, interior linebackers, free safety. Adding a CB with a top 10 pick to a defense that can't stop the run at all is such a Cleveland Browns move. By all means get a good DB if it falls to you but don't confuse adding a top 10 pick at DB with fixing the defense, because a shutdown CB doesn't matter when teams can run at will on you.

I already made the thread about Micah Parsons, who's a great run stopper. I've commented a few times about Shelvin, who also gets props as a run stopper. Could I get recommendations on other day 2/early day 3 picks that grade well against the run?

Well said.

What we do on D simply won't matter until we fix the DLine. Look at how much better we've become w/ Hamilton, and he's a JAG.

 

[armadillooutlaw]

Well said.

What we do on D simply won't matter until we fix the DLine. Look at how much better we've become w/ Hamilton, and he's a JAG.

I've got my eye on Dalvin Tomlinson in free agency.
He's a big part of NY's underrated run defense.

 

[cnuball21]

Ann Kendricks would improve our run D.

Lol...sad but true

It’s not hard. Get DTs that can anchor and effect the run game and LBs that have instincts.

Good news is LVE is showing signs of life now he’s healthy and he’s shown us he can be a monster. Fix the DT position and we can at least be average against the run.

 

[armadillooutlaw]

Lol...sad but true

It’s not hard. Get DTs that can anchor and effect the run game and LBs that have instincts.

Good news is LVE is showing signs of life now he’s healthy and he’s shown us he can be a monster. Fix the DT position and we can at least be average against the run.

Got to be proactive in free agency and draft to turn DT into a strength.
Can't just "get by" with a bunch of role player types.
If things were more stout up front Vander Esch might play at a high level more consistently.

 

[stilltheguru]

Im sorry...what? Have you been watching Jaylon play football recently?

Jaylon being bad has nothing to do with parsons making is a good run defense.

 

[cnuball21]

Jaylon being bad has nothing to do with parsons making is a good run defense.

Yes it does. If you can significantly upgrade Jaylon's spot the run defense improves.

 

[stilltheguru]

Yes it does. If you can significantly upgrade Jaylon's spot the run defense improves.

Is he a significant upgrade? Who knows. Like I said, white hasn't been great. Simmons went top 10 he hasn't been great. What really makes him that great? I see hes an athletic freak but that doesn't mean you can diagnose a offense

 

[kskboys]

Lol...sad but true

It’s not hard. Get DTs that can anchor and effect the run game and LBs that have instincts.

Good news is LVE is showing signs of life now he’s healthy and he’s shown us he can be a monster. Fix the DT position and we can at least be average against the run.

LVE has been a stud from the start. The only question is whether he can stay on the field.

Fixing the DT position would help mightily in keeping him healthy.

 

[cnuball21]

Is he a significant upgrade? Who knows. Like I said, white hasn't been great. Simmons went top 10 he hasn't been great. What really makes him that great? I see hes an athletic freak but that doesn't mean you can diagnose a offense

In the long term , yes. Jaylon is a liability. I don't watch White or Simmons every Sunday but if you're judging draft picks by how good they are in their rookie/sophmore season let's just go ahead an end the conversation now.