Flozell's Replacement

masomenos

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A lot of people have started talking about how we need to find Flo's eventual replacement fairly soon, as soon as this draft. With Adams' contract up after this year and considering his age and somewhat inconsistent play recently it's no surprise that people are starting to talk about finding the guy who will take over for him. Some have prematurely tabbed Pat McQuistan as that guy, but as a 7th round pick who has shown very little it's really more wishful thinking than anything. One of the popular solutions to finding the next LT has been to draft a tackle like Alan Barbre in the 3rd or 4th round this year, but would he really be the best solution?

The most important thing for a LT is for him to be good in pass protection, as they protect the QBs (or at least right handed QBs) blind side. Here is a breakdown of how the OT prospects faired in pass protection over the past two years:

2005/2006 QB Pressures Allowed
1. Levi Brown - 0
2t. Alan Barbre - 1
2t. Joe Staley - 1
4. Doug Free - 2
5t. James Marten - 3
5t. Marshall Yanda - 3
7t. Tala Esera - 5
7t. Mike Otto - 5
9. Joe Thomas - 5.5 (only .5 in 2006)
10. Tony Ugoh - 10

2005/2006 Sacks Allowed
1. Mike Otto - 1
2. Alan Barbre - 2.5
3. James Marten - 3
4. Tony Ugoh - 2.5
5t. Levi Brown - 4
5t. Tala Esera - 4
7. Joe Thomas - 4.5 (only .5 in 2006)
8. Joe Staley - 5
9. Marshall Yanda - 5.5
10. Doug Free - 9

It's worth noting that Barbre, Brown and Marten are the only players in the top half of each category and that Barbre is the only one in the top 3. Marten also has a fairly poor block success of 81% and shows very little in the run game. Brown is also a little below average in terms of his block success rate but shows much better success in run blocking while Barbre is average or better at everything, but did play at a smaller school.

I won't spend too much time talking about Joe Thomas because he will definitely be gone. All of the other players seem to be pretty fair game, although it's almost certain that Brown will be gone too. When taking a players agility times into consideration the top 5 pass blockers are (excluding Thomas):

1. Alan Barbre (Rd 3-4)
2. Levi Brown (Rd 1)
3. Joe Staley (Rd 1)
4. James Marten (Rd 3)
5. Mike Otto (Rd 4)

While pass blocking is essential for a LT, to be successful in the league they also have to be proficient in run blocking as well. Again, excluding Thomas, the top 5 run blockers (based on down field blocks, td resulting blocks, etc) are:

1. Joe Staley (Rd 1)
2. Mike Otto (Rd 4)
3. Levi Brown (Rd 1)
4. Alan Barbre (Rd 3-4)
5. James Marten (Rd 3)

And in terms of overall rankings, when adding in success rates, small school modifiers, etc, the rankings would be:

1. Joe Staley (Rd 1)
2. Alan Barbre (Rd 3-4)
3. Levi Brown (Rd 1)
4. Mike Otto (Rd 4)

Now these rankings only go to 4 because after Mike Otto the scores drop significantly and the potential of finding a starter who grades worse than Otto would be very difficult. There are a few people on the board who have talked about Staley in the first but I believe it would be a very "un-sexy" pick and not one that fans would be too thrilled about. However, in terms of replacing Flozell then Staley may be our best option. Barbre and Brown are both just a level below Staley though and would be fine choices, although if Brown is available we still may be better off waiting and trying to grab Barbre later on. Mike Otto is another level below Barbre and Brown and has serious issues with his overall strength (20 reps) but does have the frame to get bigger and under an NFL weight program could get significantly stronger but he would definitely be more of a project than the other options.

Another interesting thing to consider is that of the 32 starting LTs in the NFL 50% of them were chosen in the first round, 70% in the first two rounds and 83% on the first day. I bring this up because it shows that expecting to draft a late round developmental player and expecting them to eventually become the starter is not a very solid strategy. Also, of the LTs chosen to the Pro Bowl in the past 5 years 67% were first round picks and 27% were second round picks. So to draft a LT prospect any later than Rd 2 and expecting them to really develop into something special is also a little foolish.
 

theogt

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Allen Barbre is a very interesting prospect. When I ran the OT numbers, here's the ranking based on my "physical attribute" formula:

1. Staley, Joe
2. Barbre, Allen
3. Koets, Adam
4. Frye, Brandon
5. Ugoh, Tony
6. Marten, James
7. Free, Doug
8. Uperesa, Dane
9. Yanda, Marshall
10. Thomas, Joe

Rating = (Height/2) + (Weight/50) + (Broad Jump/10) + (Vertical Jump/3) + (30 * (2 - 10-yard)) + ((15 - (40-yard + 20-yard)) * 5) + (Bench Press/5)
 

masomenos

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theogt;1456988 said:
10. Thomas, Joe

It's interesting that he's #10 on your list. He's coming off of a great senior season but as a junior he really was only average in pass protection, coupled with the fact that he's not exactly a physical beast I have questions about if he's really as strong as a prospect as everyone thinks. I think he demonstrates a great job of run blocking, getting to the second level and getting his hands on guys and having key blocks resulting in TDs. But he hasn't exactly been consistent in pass protection. I still think he's a really good prospect, but maybe not that top 5 type of guy that people are saying. I mean, he has a great block success rate, but maybe, just maybe he isn't such a sure fire, destined to be a pro-bowler pick.
 

masomenos

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Bob Sacamano;1456997 said:
Joe Staley might not make it to our pick in the 1st

I really like Frye's potential

Biggest problem with Frye is that he never really produced all that well on the field, he seems like one of those guys who has the size and everything but just lacks the talent needed to succeed.
 

theogt

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masomenos85;1457005 said:
It's interesting that he's #10 on your list. He's coming off of a great senior season but as a junior he really was only average in pass protection, coupled with the fact that he's not exactly a physical beast I have questions about if he's really as strong as a prospect as everyone thinks. I think he demonstrates a great job of run blocking, getting to the second level and getting his hands on guys and having key blocks resulting in TDs. But he hasn't exactly been consistent in pass protection. I still think he's a really good prospect, but maybe not that top 5 type of guy that people are saying. I mean, he has a great block success rate, but maybe, just maybe he isn't such a sure fire, destined to be a pro-bowler pick.
I was surprised too. On most of the positions the physical attribute rankings correlate very highly with "draft expert" rankings. Occasionally there are a few outliers, such as Joe Thomas. For a guy to be a top 5 pick, particularly at OT, I'd want him to both be a great physical specimen and to have been productive in college. Like you said, Joe Thomas only had 1 year of really nice production in college. I think he's got bust potential written all over him.

By the way, where are you getting the sacks/pressures allowed stats?
 

Achozen

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theogt;1457014 said:
I was surprised to. On most of the positions the physical attribute rankings correlate very highly with "draft expert" rankings. Occasionally there are a few outliers, such as Joe Thomas. For a guy to be a top 5 pick, particularly at OT, I'd want him to both be a great physical specimen and to have been productive in college. Like you said, Joe Thomas only had 1 year of really nice production in college. I think he's got bust potential written all over him.
Yeah, me too. I think he as a little "Robert Gallery" in him. Poor Cardinals, if he falls to them he's their guy.
 

masomenos

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dangerdoom4124;1457016 said:
Yeah, me too. I think he as a little "Robert Gallery" in him. Poor Cardinals, if he falls to them he's their guy.

Even worse if the Lions take him #2 lol
 

masomenos

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theogt;1457014 said:
I was surprised too. On most of the positions the physical attribute rankings correlate very highly with "draft expert" rankings. Occasionally there are a few outliers, such as Joe Thomas. For a guy to be a top 5 pick, particularly at OT, I'd want him to both be a great physical specimen and to have been productive in college. Like you said, Joe Thomas only had 1 year of really nice production in college. I think he's got bust potential written all over him.

By the way, where are you getting the sacks/pressures allowed stats?

nfldraftscout.com, click on a players name to view their profile and then scroll down to near the bottom
 

theogt

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dangerdoom4124;1457016 said:
Yeah, me too. I think he as a little "Robert Gallery" in him. Poor Cardinals, if he falls to them he's their guy.
It seems like there just has to be one guy every year that is "the elite tackle" that is projected in the top 5, and every year some guy just happens to get annointed that position, regardless of whether he really deserves to be a top 5 pick. Oh well...if the idiots are willing to draft 'em, so be it.
 

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masomenos85;1457018 said:
nfldraftscout.com, click on a players name to view their profile and then scroll down to near the bottom
Wow, I didn't realize they had blocking stats for OL. Sweet. Now I can do a production rating for them.
 

masomenos

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theogt;1457021 said:
Wow, I didn't realize they had blocking stats for OL. Sweet. Now I can do a production rating for them.

Let me know the production ratings you come up with!
 

Billy Bullocks

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People may have read into Parcells blessing of McQ a bit too much. I fully agree, being a 7th rounder, it's highly unlikely he will be much more than a servicable guy for us. I hope I'm wrong, and if I correctly recall, the Patriots had great success on the OL with many late round and undrafted guys. However, being a realist, I think it would not be a bad idea for us to get a future player at that position.
 

masomenos

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Billy Bullocks;1457027 said:
People may have read into Parcells blessing of McQ a bit too much. I fully agree, being a 7th rounder, it's highly unlikely he will be much more than a servicable guy for us. I hope I'm wrong, and if I correctly recall, the Patriots had great success on the OL with many late round and undrafted guys. However, being a realist, I think it would not be a bad idea for us to get a future player at that position.

Im not sure about all along the OL but I can say that as far as OT goes the Patriots have a 2nd rounder starting at LT and like I said 70% of starting tackles come from the first two rounds, a fifth of them from the second. And they have a 3rd rounder at RT. The average drafted position is different than that of the LTs where the majority come from the second round (31%) and 16% come from the third round. So the Patriots are a little above the curve in terms of getting starters a round later than most teams at OT, but they certainly aren't grabbing guys out of the last few rounds.
 

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masomenos85;1457030 said:
Im not sure about all along the OL but I can say that as far as OT goes the Patriots have a 2nd rounder starting at LT and like I said 70% of starting tackles come from the first two rounds, a fifth of them from the second. And they have a 3rd rounder at RT. The average drafted position is different than that of the LTs where the majority come from the second round (31%) and 16% come from the third round. So the Patriots are a little above the curve in terms of getting starters a round later than most teams at OT, but they certainly aren't grabbing guys out of the last few rounds.

That's kind of what I thought. LT is one of those positions that seems like QB, you MIGHT find one in the late rounds, but chances are quite slim.
 

masomenos

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Billy Bullocks;1457033 said:
That's kind of what I thought. LT is one of those positions that seems like QB, you MIGHT find one in the late rounds, but chances are quite slim.

Yeah thats pretty much how it seems, these are the stats on starting LTs based on where there were drafted.

1st - 50%
2nd - 19%
3rd - 13%
4th - 0%
5th - 6%
6th - 0%
7th - 3%
UFA - 6%

Definitely a position where "diamonds in the rough" or "sleepers" are hard to find.
 

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You mean like it's slim to find a FA OT who was a first round pick but got severely injuried after few games as starting RT so that his career was essentially almost over but who Parcells took a chance on knowing the player couldn't contribute that year (in o5) but might contribute in 06. Who would have thought that player would beat out the other OTs we had on the team (admittedly not that good OTs) to become our starter -- think his name is Colombo. Ever hear of the guy?
 

MichaelWinicki

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sago1;1457055 said:
You mean like it's slim to find a FA OT who was a first round pick but got severely injuried after few games as starting RT so that his career was essentially almost over but who Parcells took a chance on knowing the player couldn't contribute that year (in o5) but might contribute in 06. Who would have thought that player would beat out the other OTs we had on the team (admittedly not that good OTs) to become our starter -- think his name is Colombo. Ever hear of the guy?


Exactly.


If someone were to say, "The tackle we're going to draft THIS year in the 7th round is going to replace Adams"... I'd say they were crocked but considering McQ has already gone through one training, looked good, made the team, was here all season, and will be here through the offseason and another training camp, I'd say the kid's chances of being better than your average 7th rounder have shot-up tremendously.
 

CrazyCowboy

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theogt;1456988 said:
Allen Barbre is a very interesting prospect. When I ran the OT numbers, here's the ranking based on my "physical attribute" formula:

1. Staley, Joe
2. Barbre, Allen
3. Koets, Adam
4. Frye, Brandon
5. Ugoh, Tony
6. Marten, James
7. Free, Doug
8. Uperesa, Dane
9. Yanda, Marshall
10. Thomas, Joe

Rating = (Height/2) + (Weight/50) + (Broad Jump/10) + (Vertical Jump/3) + (30 * (2 - 10-yard)) + ((15 - (40-yard + 20-yard)) * 5) + (Bench Press/5)

Wow.....that is an impressive formula.
 
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