Football 101: The Talent Evaluation Process

[Hostile]

It should be blamed on Jerry Jones. You can't have a front office with no accountability.

Here's a newsflash for you - Every team works in unison like this scouting, evaluating and selecting players. But most all do it under the watchful eye of a real NFL GM. Someone who has worked his way up the ladder by merit. The architect of what you're attempting to build. The most important set of eyes in your organization.

We don't have that in Dallas. We don't even have a legitimate Director of Player Personnel. We have to go to 3rd in command before we find a legit personnel evaluator. Someone who wasn't given his position and can't keep it by nepotism. That blame falls entirely on one man. He deserves every ounce of criticism he gets. Frankly, I think the fans and media have been too easy on him over the years.

The part in bold is absolutely 100% correct, and that is what I have maintained for years.

I again point out that on our team Ciskowski's duties fall in line with what a GM would be on another team. He is our talent evaluator. For example, Ozzie Newsome is not the Cap guy in Baltimore. Colbert is not in Pittsburgh.

 

[Risen Star]

The part in bold is absolutely 100% correct, and that is what I have maintained for years.

I again point out that on our team Ciskowski's duties fall in line with what a GM would be on another team. He is our talent evaluator. For example, Ozzie Newsome is not the Cap guy in Baltimore. Colbert is not in Pittsburgh.

I'm not sure what your point is. Did somebody say teams with real GMs don't have a staff that is also part of the process? Of course they do. Of course they all have input.

But they also have a qualified guy at the top and accountability if performance isn't up to par.

 

[Risen Star]

If somebody said Jerry strong arms and dictates all personnel moves here, please don't lump me in with that person. I don't believe that at all.

 

[Hostile]

Jerry has never strong armed picks. Someone will mention Parcells wanting Spears and the selection of Ware. That was a case of 5 guys to 1 all wanting Ware and Ireland believing Spears would be there so he convinced Jerry. Ware is as much Ireland's pick as anyone else's.

Jimmy had absolute say on all of his picks. Rightly so because he is probably the best eye for talent we've ever had. Parcells is close though. Once Jimmy left Lacewell was the strongest voice in any room until Jeff Ireland and Parcells arrived.

Right now, Jason Garrett is the strongest voice in the room with Ciskowski being a close second.

Wade, for all the criticism he has taken was also a strong voice in the room.

 

[Hostile]

One last comment before this dies. I do believe Jerry Jones is accountable even though he will not fire himself. I say this because he does realize that this team is operated in a manner to give the Head Coach what he wants. I think this is why he is so loyal to his coaches, staff, and his players. In my opinion there are positives and negatives to this.

The positive is that good football men are hard to find and we have found a couple. Jeff Ireland does have a good eye. Ciskowski does. Chris Hall does. All of these guys remain loyal to Jerry because he is loyal to them. If Tom Ciskowski had taken the Indy GM job it would have opened another trade partner for us. We all surely agree that Ireland is a willing partner since taking over the reins in Miami.

Ultimately here the Head Coach is the fall guy moreso than anyone else, and our Head Coaches do realize that. It is telling that none of them hold any bitterness over their firing here the way some coaches do. For instance, Marty Schottenheimer in Washington and San Diego. Mike Shanahan and Lane Kiffin in Oakland. Even Rob Ryan mentioned some bitterness over his Dad's firing with the Cardinals because it aced him too.

I think the reason there isn't bitterness is because they do know that Jerry gave them everything they asked for and the results simply didn't happen. I don't know about you, but in those shoes I couldn't fault the man more than I did myself. I'd love to have a boss who gave me everything I asked for. Heck I'd love to be that boss for my company, but I'm not.

So while there is a unique power structure on this team in some ways I think it is important to realize that no task performed by other NFL teams is being neglected in Dallas. I think this gets missed quite often in the frustration. I think that is understandable.

By far the most caustic or sarcastic Head Coach we have ever had is Bill Parcells. He is someone who is unafraid to burn bridges. I want to end this by sharing some of his words on the working atmosphere in Dallas in the hope that it sheds some new light.

This was asked in May 2006 after the acquisition of Terrell Owens. Parcells was noted for disappearing in the off season. He "went into his bunker." Eventually he did talk and he had a lot to say. Please note that Parcells is describing the structure pretty much exactly as I have outlined in the OP. I am going to bold one comment just to be spiteful to the DFW media.

You always have some concerns about things whenever you acquire a player that you really don’t know personally. Contrary to what a lot of the people have been writing here, we work as a team here. We really do. With (Cowboys owner) Jerry (Jones) and (Vice President of College and Pro Scouting) Jeff (Ireland) and myself. And we make decisions as an organization, and we do it collectively. We do now more than ever. Whatever decisions we make then we all support that. And I support whatever decisions in the organization. I was part of it. I continue to be part of it. In the draft we worked real well together on. Hey now, I’m not saying we don’t have a difference of opinion every once in awhile about things. That’s just natural. But we sound it out and once we go, we’re going. And if we’re wrong, we’ll cut our losses, and we’ll go again. We’ve been wrong on a couple things here, but this talent acquisition is about 50/50 anyway. So if you can get about half of it right you’re doing pretty well. Lately, I’m pretty satisfied with that.

The interviewer was still wondering if he wanted Owens or if Jerry did, so he pushed the issue a little. Parcells responded.

I don’t think that happens. When the season’s over we try to put our musts together and our needs together and we try to just… You never know how it’s going to unfold as the season goes on. I didn’t know whether he’d be traded. I didn’t know anything about what would happen. We did discuss it. We talked about it. And we try to put a plan in place to address some of our needs. That plan is not comprised individually. Now, I do give a very strong opinion on what we need to do from the football standpoint. Then we have the economics to consider of it. And we have the domino effect on other players on the team to consider. We talk about all those things every time we try to make a move. If we do this, this is what happens there and this is what happens here. And that’s what we did.

Finally I am going to close with Parcells echoing Jason Garrett about how close we are. Remember, this is Parcells after a 9-7 2005 season and before a 9-7 2006 season.

I have to tell you I like it very much here in Dallas. I feel like I’ve been treated fairly here. I like the organization, I just, I like it. And I’m challenged by it. It hasn’t gone exactly the way I want it to go. I gotta tell you that. But I think we were a lot closer to being good than anybody really knows. We made a field goal here or there, and we’re gonna have 12 wins. This division is heating up though. I think everybody’s improved. I think it’s gonna be a very good division and highly competitive. And I don’t think there’s a hands-down favorite. I think the competition is gonna be very good. And I’ve looked at it closely.

Hope the thread was enjoyable for all and maybe a little enlightening.

 

[realtick]

It isn't a perfect system, but none of them are because you cannot see how a player will change. I want to mention one such player as I close this, Robert Brewster. Many know he fizzled out here, but may not know why, because he was highly regarded by the team. He was also a single father and ultimately he put more weight on his responsibilities there than he did on earning a starting job on the team. Some may call him a bust, but I bet his little boy doesn't think so.

Good info Hos.

I'm not buying the last bit about Robert Brewster though.

Him being a single father wasn't really an unknown thing. In fact, DC.com had a video story about it during his rookie season IIRC.

Brewster was suspended from the league for one year (having had multiple violations of the league's drug and illegal substance policy). Despite not being on a NFL roster, if he is able to get onto an NFL squad again he'll still have to sit out a year. So despite not being very good to begin with, any team that takes him on would have to be willing to hold a roster spot for him. That, undoubtedly, is the reason why he isn't in the league.

Was he taking performance enhancing drugs to focus more on his son and responsibilities? Sounds more like a guy that was trying to get an edge to try to stay in the league.

Which makes much more sense if someone is to buy into the "more weight into his responsibilities (ie. his son)" story, because why would you leave a job making hundreds of thousands of dollars to set up not only you, but your family?

Further, if that really was the motive, why is he on the active roster of the KC Command AFL team currently?

Robert Brewster was just a bust of a pick.

 

[Hostile]

He was suspended for PEDs, not narcotics. He was trying to make it but took shortcuts that many do.

 

[realtick]

He was suspended for PEDs, not narcotics. He was trying to make it but took shortcuts that many do.

I wasn't insinuating that he was suspended for narcotics (weed, coke, etc.). as you know PEDs fall under the league's illegal drug & substance policy. Either way, I think that severly undermines the noble "my real responsibilities (his son) are taking me away from the game" story angle.

 

[Risen Star]

This thread wasn't enlightening to me at all. I know all teams work in unison with a team of scouts, coaches and executives.

The Parcells quotes didn't tell me anything either. If we had one period since Jimmy where the power structure changed it was during the Parcells years. And wouldn't you know that's the only time the team improved.

The difference in Dallas is we don't have a leader at the top. The guy who should be the most successful team builder in the room.

We don't have that because the owner is an egomaniac more interested in his own reputation than the success of the team. So he talks nonsense about the unique way we're structured and how he recognizes where the blame should be every offseason. A lot of lip movement but no change.

It doesn't take a rocket scientist to know that if the unique way you're structured hasn't won in over a decade, despite a revolving door of coaches and players, you need to change the way you are structured. But there's no accountability in the front office in Dallas. You simply need to be in the family tree.

You see, it's not good enough to give your head coach everything he wants. Because few head coaches could ever be or have ever been effective General Managers. They are very different duties. Even the ones that can do it, tend to get overwhelmed by wearing both hats. And that's under the premise that Jerry just rubber stamps all his head coaches decisions. Which would be pretty foolish to believe. A guy who never exercises his power wouldn't covet it so much.

I refuse to rationalize this issue to make it more appealing to me as a Cowboys fan. It's wrong, it's why we don't win anymore and I'll celebrate the day it finally ends.

 

[Risen Star]

Good info Hos.

I'm not buying the last bit about Robert Brewster though.

Him being a single father wasn't really an unknown thing. In fact, DC.com had a video story about it during his rookie season IIRC.

Brewster was suspended from the league for one year (having had multiple violations of the league's drug and illegal substance policy). Despite not being on a NFL roster, if he is able to get onto an NFL squad again he'll still have to sit out a year. So despite not being very good to begin with, any team that takes him on would have to be willing to hold a roster spot for him. That, undoubtedly, is the reason why he isn't in the league.

Was he taking performance enhancing drugs to focus more on his son and responsibilities? Sounds more like a guy that was trying to get an edge to try to stay in the league.

Which makes much more sense if someone is to buy into the "more weight into his responsibilities (ie. his son)" story, because why would you leave a job making hundreds of thousands of dollars to set up not only you, but your family?

Further, if that really was the motive, why is he on the active roster of the KC Command AFL team currently?

Robert Brewster was just a bust of a pick.

Agreed. He failed here because he couldn't play. It was a severe reach from the get go.

 

[kevinhickey]

That had to be one of the best threads I have ever read. I look at the site almost daily, to see what our fans say about any given player. I often wonder what is our coaches, scouts, Jerry looking for in a player. If Jason Garrett is now making the call based on the information that is given to him; then I feel more comfortable. I think the entire staff did a great job last year at the draft table.

 

[punchnjudy]

I've often wondered if NFL teams try to find bargains by looking for college athletes who are by all appearances clean and skilled at their position but lack the strength/power to play their position at this level. The logic being that someone who's never followed a HGH/low dose steroid regimen would have more potential benefit than an athlete who's already done that.

How would they know if a player was truly clean? Not really sure. Other than physical appearance, I suppose they could look to see if a player has had any unusual spurts in his physical development.

 

[Verdict]

Thanks for the info Hos. I hope that other posters who also have info of this type share it with us.

Side note: I do not understand the bitterness that many of the posters on this board have. I wonder if the first thing they do in the morning is kick their dog, just for the hell of it.

 

[Chocolate Lab]

This thread wasn't enlightening to me at all. I know all teams work in unison with a team of scouts, coaches and executives.

The Parcells quotes didn't tell me anything either. If we had one period since Jimmy where the power structure changed it was during the Parcells years. And wouldn't you know that's the only time the team improved.

The difference in Dallas is we don't have a leader at the top. The guy who should be the most successful team builder in the room.

We don't have that because the owner is an egomaniac more interested in his own reputation than the success of the team. So he talks nonsense about the unique way we're structured and how he recognizes where the blame should be every offseason. A lot of lip movement but no change.

It doesn't take a rocket scientist to know that if the unique way you're structured hasn't won in over a decade, despite a revolving door of coaches and players, you need to change the way you are structured. But there's no accountability in the front office in Dallas. You simply need to be in the family tree.

You see, it's not good enough to give your head coach everything he wants. Because few head coaches could ever be or have ever been effective General Managers. They are very different duties. Even the ones that can do it, tend to get overwhelmed by wearing both hats. And that's under the premise that Jerry just rubber stamps all his head coaches decisions. Which would be pretty foolish to believe. A guy who never exercises his power wouldn't covet it so much.

I refuse to rationalize this issue to make it more appealing to me as a Cowboys fan. It's wrong, it's why we don't win anymore and I'll celebrate the day it finally ends.

Yup.

And the head coach isn't making all these calls anyway. There's way too much evidence to the contrary. So Dave Campo is the one who wanted Quincy? Parcells' first choice was Ware over Merrriman (or Spears)? Bill wanted Eddie George or Peerless Price, guys he barely wanted to play? Wade wanted Pacman and Tank? Hell, Wade couldn't even hire the OL coach he wanted. You think he's the one who called for Robert Brewster? Houck's buddy Galloway has admitted that was Houck's call.

Nah. Jerry doesn't make every single decision, obviously, but he makes enough of the critical ones to make a huge difference. Unless you buy that Dave Campo and Wade Phillips were behind the Joey Galloway and Roy Williams trades, and in that case I have some beautiful Nebraska beachfront property I'll make you a great deal on.

What Hos doesn't seem to understand in his Jerry defense claims is that even if Jerry doesn't make all the decisions himself, it's all his responsibility anyway. Imagine a CEO whose company consistently loses money: He can't just pass it off as, well, see, I was just listening to all these other people. It's a collective decision. Nope, he either has to fire the people who have been giving him bad advice and hire new ones who are better, or the board will throw him out and bring in someone who will deliver better results. It's just that simple.

Too bad that in this case, Jerry is the board.

 

[junk]

So how much of this is based upon fact and how much is just speculation on how it works?

I think there have been two times in the club's history that the coach actually held the power outlined in this thread. Under Jimmy for sure and possibly under Parcells. Also the only two times in the club's history where they dramatically improved.

Under this structure, how does the team decide to make a move for someone like Roy Williams? Who decides appropriate compensation and whether the team is willing to pay that price?

Who decided in 2009 that the best long term direction for the team was to continually move down?

Who decides who to pursue in FA and the annual FA budget keeping in mind the long term vision for the team?

 

[Hostile]

What Hos doesn't seem to understand in his Jerry defense claims is that even if Jerry doesn't make all the decisions himself, it's all his responsibility anyway.

No CL, I do understand it. The fact of the matter is I have better grasp of it than you seem to want to give me credit for. I simply refuse to live in a fantasy world where whining about Jerry Jones on the internet is going to remove him from the picture.

I don't defend him. That is what you don't seem to gasp. If anything I make sure people know he is not the great and powerful Oz, and you know what CL? His former coaches back me up. It is his responsibility. I've never said differently. Not one time. I do not get into the Jimmy pick vs. Jerry pick crappola. It was a Cowboys pick.

But by all means, continue to believe your fairy tales and billboard strategies are the truth and going to make a difference.

I'll end up being very right CL and I will not have moved an inch in all these years on the topics I stand firm on, but a bunch of other people will move, you included. Bet on it.

 

[Risen Star]

Yup.

And the head coach isn't making all these calls anyway. There's way too much evidence to the contrary. So Dave Campo is the one who wanted Quincy? Parcells' first choice was Ware over Merrriman (or Spears)? Bill wanted Eddie George or Peerless Price, guys he barely wanted to play? Wade wanted Pacman and Tank? Hell, Wade couldn't even hire the OL coach he wanted. You think he's the one who called for Robert Brewster? Houck's buddy Galloway has admitted that was Houck's call.

Nah. Jerry doesn't make every single decision, obviously, but he makes enough of the critical ones to make a huge difference. Unless you buy that Dave Campo and Wade Phillips were behind the Joey Galloway and Roy Williams trades, and in that case I have some beautiful Nebraska beachfront property I'll make you a great deal on.

What Hos doesn't seem to understand in his Jerry defense claims is that even if Jerry doesn't make all the decisions himself, it's all his responsibility anyway. Imagine a CEO whose company consistently loses money: He can't just pass it off as, well, see, I was just listening to all these other people. It's a collective decision. Nope, he either has to fire the people who have been giving him bad advice and hire new ones who are better, or the board will throw him out and bring in someone who will deliver better results. It's just that simple.

Too bad that in this case, Jerry is the board.

Absolutely right. We'll never agree with Hostile on this issue. I wish I could. It'd make being a Cowboys fan more palatable right now.

 

[Risen Star]

So how much of this is based upon fact and how much is just speculation on how it works?

I think there have been two times in the club's history that the coach actually held the power outlined in this thread. Under Jimmy for sure and possibly under Parcells. Also the only two times in the club's history where they dramatically improved.

I'd like to think Garrett has some of that same power.

But if I'm being honest, the way Jerry has handled himself since that hire, which is exactly the way he was with Wade prior, doesn't exactly convince me that's the case.

You can pretty much track the Cowboys direction over the last 25 years with one question - How visible was Jerry? When he's center stage as the voice of the team, we've done nothing but decline. When he's in the background "miserable" or "walking on egg shells" we've always improved.

An uncomfortable Jerry Jones is best for the Cowboys.

 

[Hostile]

Absolutely right. We'll never agree with Hostile on this issue. I wish I could. It'd make being a Cowboys fan more palatable right now.

I don't care who agrees with me and who doesn't. I've never been led astray by rumors and media songbirds only to have to change my tune when the truth comes out. I don't even like Jerry. That is what a bunch of people here don't even pretend to grasp, but I don't.

He's a fantastic salesman, I give him all the credit in the world for that, but he is not someone I am dying to meet. I don't think he is a bad person, but the way he manages the ROH irks me to the point that I cannot get past it. The celebration of the stadium and the hosting of the Super Bowl taking precedence over the 50th season in our History blew my gaskets.

I don't think any of you understand how passionately I hate this.

To some of you it is no big deal. I cringe every time I see that abortion. I respect the Dallas Cowboys like few can understand. I would put a bullet through that logo right at the 2010 image. I hate that image the same way I hate Kickers, Commanders, Eagles, Giants, and Cardinals. When I finish my book there will be a portion regarding that image that is going to be scathing.

Ultimately I do not buy into absolute statements like "This team will never win anything again as long as Jerry is in charge." You will never hear me say that. Know why? Because if we do I am not going to strip my gears trying to change my tune. Not going to do it.

My hopes of this team are tied as tightly to Jason Garrett as anything I have ever hoped for in the History of this team. If you remember, when I first showed up on the forums I pushed pedigree like a pimp. I still believe in that agenda of mine as fervently as I ever did and Garrett's pedigree matters to me.

I don't believe in "football gods" per se, but I believe in "football gods." I do think this team and fanbase was punished for the actions and ego of Jerry Jones. The day Barry Switzer was hired I said we were going to go into a spiral that took years to come out of. I believe it started with the hiring of Jeff Ireland and then Bill Parcells.

Wade flopped, but I still say he is a good football man and was the right hire. I know Garrett is. I know as surely as I know the sun is going to rise tomorrow and I am going to church with a smile on my face.

I have wanted Jason Garrett as our Head Coach since 1993 when I heard Ernie Zampese saying he was Aikman's personal QB coach. If Troy Aikman in his prime listened to this guy, I knew he was going to have the goods.

I don't believe in one year fixes. I want steady, sustained growth and direction and I believe we're going to see it. A lot of people are going to have to recall their "I hope I'm wrong" comments and their absolute statements and they will act like they knew all along.

Squat and watch. It's going to be entertaining.

 

[junk]

I'd like to think Garrett has some of that same power.

But if I'm being honest, the way Jerry has handled himself since that hire, which is exactly the way he was with Wade prior, doesn't exactly convince me that's the case.

You can pretty much track the Cowboys direction over the last 25 years with one question - How visible was Jerry? When he's center stage as the voice of the team, we've done nothing but decline. When he's in the background "miserable" or "walking on egg shells" we've always improved.

An uncomfortable Jerry Jones is best for the Cowboys.

If the structure of the organization is really laid out as presented in the original thread, it might help explain why this franchise has 1 playoff win in 15 years.

I suspect a lot of it is probably some sort of attempt to deflect blame from Jerry, but if it really operates this way, it is a huge, huge issue. The GM's job shouldn't be to just read some reports generated by scouts and to call the draft pick.

The GM should be setting the direction for the franchise and should be involved in the day to day scouting of both pro and college talent. It's more than a full time job. However, the Cowboys structure probably is like this. I think Jerry injects himself periodically because he doesn't dedicate himself full time to his GM responsibilities. The result is an uneven approach to team building and talent acquisition.

If it is as focused on the coach as laid out in this post, I guess that means Wade Phillips wanted Roy Williams?

Why people are loathe to blame Jerry is beyond me. Blaming the media? Whatever. If anything the media has been too easy on Jerry. How many GMs around the league could have had a track record like Jerry's and kept their job?