For those that missed it ..

[Reality]

.. yesterday was Nors favorite day of the year

3-4-2006

 

[Nors]

Notice
4-3 2006 is two days after April Fools

 

[fweegy]

.. yesterday was Nors favorite day of the year

3-4-2006

What day is Ty Law Day????

 

[Reality]

Notice
4-3 2006 is two days after April Fools

I'm not a 4-3 or 3-4 fan I prefer the 2-3-2 defense The offense will never see it coming

-Reality

 

[iceberg]

I'm not a 4-3 or 3-4 fan I prefer the 2-3-2 defense The offense will never see it coming

-Reality

while we're talking defenses, how did the "flex" defense stack up against defenses of the time and how would it do today? i never paid close attention except to see a staggered line on defense.

 

[Nors]

What day is Ty Law Day????

pfffftttttt - thatsthe sound of the air on all the Law doubters last year.......getting burst

10 interceptions and Pro Bowl for $2.5M contract.

Back to 3-4 thread - yet another off topic post attempting to hijack a football discussion!

There was no Ty Law in Reality's post

 

[Nors]

I'm not a 4-3 or 3-4 fan I prefer the 2-3-2 defense The offense will never see it coming

-Reality

3-5-3

Put Roy up at LB. Sign a vet CB to play FS - now we're talking killer Defense!

 

[Hostile]

pfffftttttt - thatsthe sound of the air on all the Law doubters last year.......getting burst

10 interceptions and Pro Bowl for $2.5M contract.

Back to 3-4 thread - yet another off topic post attempting to hijack a football discussion!

There was no Ty Law in Reality's post

This thread was a football discussion?

 

[THUMPER]

while we're talking defenses, how did the "flex" defense stack up against defenses of the time and how would it do today? i never paid close attention except to see a staggered line on defense.

The flex was one of the most effective defenses of all-time. It was very difficult to run correctly and required highly intelligent and disciplined players to do it right.

In the late 60s - early 70s we had the most dominant defense in the league. The flex was designed to stop the run first and force teams into 3rd & long situations where they could tee off and go after the QB. We led the league during that time in fewest rushing yards allowed as well as in QB sacks.

It took Landry a while to get the right people in place but once he did it was awesome! We lost some of those guys around 1973-74 (Lilly, Jordan, Howley, Andrie, etc.) and it wasn't the same after that. While we were still a very effective defense we didn't have the players to run the Flex the way Landry had envisioned it.

 

[iceberg]

The flex was one of the most effective defenses of all-time. It was very difficult to run correctly and required highly intelligent and disciplined players to do it right.

In the late 60s - early 70s we had the most dominant defense in the league. The flex was designed to stop the run first and force teams into 3rd & long situations where they could tee off and go after the QB. We led the league during that time in fewest rushing yards allowed as well as in QB sacks.

It took Landry a while to get the right people in place but once he did it was awesome! We lost some of those guys around 1973-74 (Lilly, Jordan, Howley, Andrie, etc.) and it wasn't the same after that. While we were still a very effective defense we didn't have the players to run the Flex the way Landry had envisioned it.

so would that be why no one really runs it now? too difficult vs. traditional 3/4, 4/3, 2/3/2? : )

 

[big dog cowboy]

so would that be why no one really runs it now? too difficult vs. traditional 3/4, 4/3, 2/3/2? : )

I remember back in that day players said it would take 2-3 years to learn that defense. It was very effective Thumper is right.

 

[jackrussell]

.. yesterday was Nors favorite day of the year

3-4-2006

Oops, sorry.

I was looking for the For those who care thread.

 

[iceberg]

Oops, sorry.

I was looking for the For those who care thread.

there's only 1 and he's busy defending old WRONG ty law threads. : )

which would take longer to implement - 3/4 or the flex? would the flex work today?

 

[jackrussell]

there's only 1 and he's busy defending old WRONG ty law threads. : )

which would take longer to implement - 3/4 or the flex? would the flex work today?

I have absolutely no idea. Not a huge fan of the 3-4 to begin with.

The flex, though successful with Landry, was never, or has ever since, been attempted to be duplicated.

If the keys to a successful flex are indeed:

1. personnel
2. 2-3 years to learn

It would be difficult to man it, teach it, succeed with it given cap situations and FA, let alone our own patience with developmental projects.

 

[Clove]

I remember back in that day players said it would take 2-3 years to learn that defense. It was very effective Thumper is right.

And then Chuck Noll comes in and shows us what a real defense is like. A defense with talent dominates everytime.

 

[Big Country]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tom_Landry

Tom Landry invented the now-popular "4-3 Defense", while serving as Giants defensive coordinator. It was called "4-3" because it featured four down lineman (two ends and two defensive tackles on either side of the offensive center) and three linebackers -- middle, left, and right. The innovation was the middle linebacker. Previously, a lineman was placed over the center. But Landry had this person stand up and move back two yards. The Giants middle linebacker was the legendary Sam Huff.

Landry also popularized and invented the use of keys -- analyzing offensive tendencies -- to determine what the offense might do.

When Landry was hired by the Dallas Cowboys he became concerned with then-Green Bay Packers Coach Vince Lombardi's "Run to Daylight" idea, where the running back went to an open space, rather than a specific assigned hole. Landry reasoned that the best counter was to take away daylight.

To do this, he refined the 4-3 defense by moving two of the four lineman off the line of scrimmage one yard and varied which line people did this based on where the Cowboys thought the offense might run. This change was called "The Flex Defense" because it altered its alignment to counter what the offense might do. Thus, there were three such Flex Defenses -- strong, weak, and "tackle" -- where both defensive tackles were off the line of scrimmage. The idea with the flexed linemen was to improve pursuit angles to stop the Green Bay Sweep -- a popular play of the 1960s. The Flex Defense was also innovative in that it was a kind of zone defense against the run. Each defender was responsible for a given gap area, and was told to stay in that area before they knew where the play was going.

It has been said that after he invented the Flex Defense, he then invented the offense to score on it, reviving the man-in-motion and the shotgun formation. But Landry's biggest contribution in this area was the use of "pre-shifting" where the offense would shift from one formation to the other before the snap of the ball. While this tactic is not new -- it was developed by Coach Amos Alonzo Stagg around the turn of the 20th Century -- Landry was the first coach to use the approach on a regular basis. The idea was to break the keys the defense used to determine what the offense might do.

 

[iceberg]

I have absolutely no idea. Not a huge fan of the 3-4 to begin with.

The flex, though successful with Landry, was never, or has ever since, been attempted to be duplicated.

If the keys to a successful flex are indeed:

1. personnel
2. 2-3 years to learn

It would be difficult to man it, teach it, succeed with it given cap situations and FA, let alone our own patience with developmental projects.

sounds like you'd just have to make a 4-5 year committment to the DL at least and hope you don't lose a key person or two. i figured there was a reason for why it was never tried by anyone else, i just never knew the specifics of how it worked or the why's to begin with.

 

[iceberg]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tom_Landry

Tom Landry invented the now-popular "4-3 Defense", while serving as Giants defensive coordinator. It was called "4-3" because it featured four down lineman (two ends and two defensive tackles on either side of the offensive center) and three linebackers -- middle, left, and right. The innovation was the middle linebacker. Previously, a lineman was placed over the center. But Landry had this person stand up and move back two yards. The Giants middle linebacker was the legendary Sam Huff.

Landry also popularized and invented the use of keys -- analyzing offensive tendencies -- to determine what the offense might do.

When Landry was hired by the Dallas Cowboys he became concerned with then-Green Bay Packers Coach Vince Lombardi's "Run to Daylight" idea, where the running back went to an open space, rather than a specific assigned hole. Landry reasoned that the best counter was to take away daylight.

To do this, he refined the 4-3 defense by moving two of the four lineman off the line of scrimmage one yard and varied which line people did this based on where the Cowboys thought the offense might run. This change was called "The Flex Defense" because it altered its alignment to counter what the offense might do. Thus, there were three such Flex Defenses -- strong, weak, and "tackle" -- where both defensive tackles were off the line of scrimmage. The idea with the flexed linemen was to improve pursuit angles to stop the Green Bay Sweep -- a popular play of the 1960s. The Flex Defense was also innovative in that it was a kind of zone defense against the run. Each defender was responsible for a given gap area, and was told to stay in that area before they knew where the play was going.

It has been said that after he invented the Flex Defense, he then invented the offense to score on it, reviving the man-in-motion and the shotgun formation. But Landry's biggest contribution in this area was the use of "pre-shifting" where the offense would shift from one formation to the other before the snap of the ball. While this tactic is not new -- it was developed by Coach Amos Alonzo Stagg around the turn of the 20th Century -- Landry was the first coach to use the approach on a regular basis. The idea was to break the keys the defense used to determine what the offense might do.

wow - thanks man! a lot of great info!

 

[Big Country]

This was too much to copy-paste, so check out the links... Landry's defenses were spotlighted in Formation 3... another good read


http://www.hickoksports.com/history/proformations01.shtml...Pro Football Formations 1: In the Beginning. . .

* Single Wing
* Short Punt
* Notre Dame Box
* Double Wing
* Original T Formation
* Early Defenses
* Other Resources


http://www.hickoksports.com/history/proformations02.shtml
Pro Football Formations 2: The Modern T Formation

* The Genius of Clark Shaughnessy
* The Modern Passing Attack
* Defensive Answers
* Other Resources


http://www.hickoksports.com/history/proformations03.shtml
Pro Football Formations 2: The Modern T Formation

* The Genius of Clark Shaughnessy
* The Modern Passing Attack
* Defensive Answers
* Other Resources

 

[Cbz40]

This was too much to copy-paste, so check out the links... Landry's defenses were spotlighted in Formation 3... another good read


http://www.hickoksports.com/history/proformations01.shtml...Pro Football Formations 1: In the Beginning. . .

* Single Wing
* Short Punt
* Notre Dame Box
* Double Wing
* Original T Formation
* Early Defenses
* Other Resources


http://www.hickoksports.com/history/proformations02.shtml
Pro Football Formations 2: The Modern T Formation

* The Genius of Clark Shaughnessy
* The Modern Passing Attack
* Defensive Answers
* Other Resources


http://www.hickoksports.com/history/proformations03.shtml
Pro Football Formations 2: The Modern T Formation

* The Genius of Clark Shaughnessy
* The Modern Passing Attack
* Defensive Answers
* Other Resources

Thank you Sir....Very interesting stuff