Fourth down attempts

blueblood70 said:
that Moores call you know the kid everyone want so replace MM to not let that genius go but look at the 4th down failures..Moore is calling those..
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He got off to a great start play calling this year however has regressed back to his old ways lately. I haven't been 100% sold on him from the beginning

However in that situation Dak has the option to change the play at the line also. Just the way both teams lined up you knew Zeke was going to get blown up from the start
 
Redline360 said:
He got off to a great start play calling this year however has regressed back to his old ways lately. I haven't been 100% sold on him from the beginning

However in that situation Dak has the option to change the play at the line also. Just the way both teams lined up you knew Zeke was going to get blown up from the start
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Zeke had 5.1 ypc the ol played poorly he didn't know the OL would block like Poo going into it.didnt know Dak would be bad, the wrs dropped passes, etc etc didnt know his defense would be unreliable

its was bad game all around.top to bottom..
 
Mannix said:
Agree with the Monday - Saturday portion....but had we lost be 3 you would be upset. Corky is going to cost us dearly....we are not good enough to win despite him.
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If we had lost by 3 absolutely I would make this a bigger discussion. If we had converted we would be having an even different conversation. I'm not worried about the ifs. MM completely failed to get this team ready to play. Had he done so maybe we aren't even in a 4th down situation on the drive or we convert. That's the bigger discussion to me. I'm even fine going for it on 4th down, but this team is converting about 35%. MM and KM need to figure this out. Too much talent on offense to not have more success, especially short yardage situations.
 
Ugh…nothing worse then the trash talking post game….Broncos record sucks they should probably humble themselves before someone does them like they did us lol.
 
It is so easy to Monday morning QB the 4th down the calls, if they would have worked it was a good call, when they didn't it was stupid. I get it, in real-time I liked the first attempt but the second one I felt he should have gone for points. We play 17 games you gonna have a stinker or two at some point. I'm not in panic mode this morning.
 
SeanLee50 said:
Nothing steals momentum like being stopped on 4th down.

We came out, had a huge return, moved the ball a bit. Stopped on 4th. Cool. Make an average O earn it.

Forced a 3 and out. Move the ball again. Go for it on 4th. Stopped again.

Their defense no longer has any respect for you. They just stopped you twice. It should be 3-0 and making them drive the field. The entire team was fired up from this and it set the tone early
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Yep. They should have kicked the field goal. It could have been a completely different game if they had (unless they miss it).
 
I love the aggressiveness we just gotta convert. The mindless hand offs like we are the 92 Cowboys will not cut it.
 
blueblood70 said:
Zeke had 5.1 ypc the ol played poorly he didn't know the OL would block like Poo going into it.didnt know Dak would be bad, the wrs dropped passes, etc etc didnt know his defense would be unreliable

its was bad game all around.top to bottom..
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Yup every team has these types of games. No need to panic
 
rnr_honeybadger said:
I think the single biggest thing that killed us yesterday was that the offense was always facing a 3rd and long situation. Basically they did to us what we did to MN the week before because that was what hurt MN as well - lots of 3rd and longs and not converting them. It doesn't help that Dak was horrifically bad yesterday, hopefully he can dial it back in again.
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And I totally agree. Kellen Moore didn't call a good game yesterday.

For much of the 1st half, Kellen was stuck in a pattern of passing on first down, and then running on 2nd and long after a bad 1st down play. And then of course they passed on every 3rd down. This was the pattern, and it was easy to predict after a while. So the Broncos loaded up on the play action on 1st down, taking away the easy reads. And then on 2nd down, they loaded up against the run, and the Cowboys always ran right into it.

Then, as Badger said, it set up consistent 3rd and 5+.

Yes, Dak was bad. Yes, the o-line didn't play well. No, the defense didn't play well either in long stretches of the game. But Kellen was bad too.

And don't even get me started on McCarthy. Early in the game, JUST TAKE THE POINTS. They matter so much for the psyche of not only your team, but also the opponent's. And play field position, trust your defense.

And I HATE when you need a yard on 3rd and 1 or 4th and 1 without using a FB. Hec, if ANY defender squeezes through, they have a direct, unfettered shot at the RB. If it's not a QB sneak, just use a FB (and you can put an OL at FB), so they can push the pile forward. Just bad play calling and coaching. They deserved to lose yesterday...as MM was a pompous idiot. Even if they would have got the 1st downs, especially when you're passing up points, I would have still thought it was bad coaching. Not worth the risk...because if you don't get it, that's TWO consecutive 4th down stops, giving Denver a ton of confidence.

:facepalm:
 
I think early in a game with no score it is best not to go for it on 4th down. The Cowboys conversion rate is just 35%. And that is a bit of a false stat because lately is it much lower. They made a few early in the year but since then not so many. With that in mind, early in the game before the two teams have settled in, just punt the ball away and let your defense see what they can do. But momentum is funny and it was obvious to me once the Broncos held the Cowboys on the 2nd 4th down try they were highly motivated after that. And with every TD or big play they gained more and more confidence. There was no need to act like they needed to score a TD on every possession.

On the first Denver possession, the Cowboys defense smothered the Broncos pushing them back 10 yards without allowing a 1st down. Why not punt and see if the defense could do it again and maybe force a turnover.

One could argue that the 2nd attempt should have been completed. Had Dak not thrown the ball nose down into the ground, it would have been a completed pass for a 1st down. But the Cowboys gave up 3 points there AND handed momentum to Denver who wound up scoring a TD on their next drive. And I think that is what motivated Denver. The 1st 4th down attempt was at the Denver 38. Too close to punt, too far to kick a FG so going for it was their only real choice. The 2nd attempt as from the Denver 20 yard line. Dallas should have kicked the FG and taken the points. By going for it and failing again it was a huge momentum swing. Denver took over and scored a TD on their next 2 drives. In fact, after that failed 4th down attempt Denver went TD, TD, FG, End of Half, FG, Missed FG, TD, FG on their next 8 drives. That made it 30-0 and at that point it was the 4th quarter and the game was over. I am convinced failing on the 2nd FG attempt rather than taking the points changed the game significantly.

McCarthy reminds me of the gambler who continues to put money into a slot machine because he thinks the odds get better every time he loses. But he runs out of money before he can prove he is right.
 
Creeper said:
In fact, after that failed 4th down attempt Denver went TD, TD, FG, End of Half, FG, Missed FG, TD, FG on their next 8 drives. That made it 30-0 and at that point it was the 4th quarter and the game was over. I am convinced failing on the 2nd FG attempt rather than taking the points changed the game significantly.

McCarthy reminds me of the gambler who continues to put money into a slot machine because he thinks the odds get better every time he loses. But he runs out of money before he can prove he is right.
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Totally agree, Creeper, totally agree.

Respect the game, and respect the opponent. I understand that the Broncos offense also perceived said disrespect when the Cowboys were just lining up to go for it on 4th so early in the game (refusing to punt or attempt the FG). So that hyped them up, and the Broncos defense was ALREADY hyped after 2 consecutive 4th down stops. The rest is history. They rode that disrespect to a 30-0 lead.

For McCarthy, an NFL Head Coach, for him to not understand these same ramifications...it just doesn't give me much confidence for the caliber of his coaching. Sure, players will ALWAYS want to go for it, but that's why you need a HC who fully understands the risk/reward balance. It's OK, just punt and play field position. Or take the points and the lead. Having a lead is really important in the NFL, even if it's just by a FG, early in the game.
 
blueblood70 said:
right call at the time bad execution's and in hindsight sure maybe try fg or two..

this didnt lose the game..sorry but let it go

total team loss
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The first time was the right call but the second one was in FG range in a close game
I’d have taken FG on the second one
 
conner01 said:
The first time was the right call but the second one was in FG range in a close game
I’d have taken FG on the second one
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it was not close game it was early on and 0-0
it was 0-0 on our 2nd drive a close game lol that would have been late in the 2nd half and close , i agree with both calls and hindsight is always 2020...MM had no idea the players were lay a total egg in all 3 phases..

cant play the woulda coulda shoulda game now..
 
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