Fox Schein Blog: Norv called Jimmy about Cowboys job

WoodysGirl

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Good times had by all
Jan 31, 2007 | 9:46AM |

Jimmy Johnson, and his hair, got the party started on the show. I have to tell you — I think he’s outstanding. He’s great on FOX, was a fantastic coach, and he just has a great personality. And he never gets enough for credit for building those Cowboy Super Bowl teams, not just coaching them. Johnson told us that Norv Turner called him to talk about the Cowboys gig. And I asked Johnson if he advised his good friend to work for the now omnipresent Jones. While Johnson has major, and rightful, concerns about it, he advised Turner to take the gig if offered and thinks his former offensive coordinator is the best fit for the Dallas vacancy.

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burmafrd

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Everything about Jimmy I question based on his failure at Miami. The exact reverse of Bellicek, who was mediocre at best with the browns. It could be said that Bellicek learned his lesson and did better- so why did Jimmy fail in Miami?
 

Cowboy4ever

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burmafrd;1352726 said:
Everything about Jimmy I question based on his failure at Miami. The exact reverse of Bellicek, who was mediocre at best with the browns. It could be said that Bellicek learned his lesson and did better- so why did Jimmy fail in Miami?

If you are comparing those 2 and their success and failure,, its pretty simple.. Jimmy didn't have Tom Brady. Say what you want about BB x's and o's genius, but without a QB like Brady to make it work,, BB would not be the genius he is credited for.
 

Kalyan

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Lot of things come together for a coach to be successful. I would like to see Belicheck go to a different team and start from scratch like Parcells and see how far he will go when he has no Tom Brady/Good Defense on his plate
 

burmafrd

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No arguement that Brady was a major factor; that as well as having a good base that BP left there, and a good staff too. BUT that begs the question of WHY Jimmy failed at Miami in his second stint.
 

BrAinPaiNt

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burmafrd;1352726 said:
Everything about Jimmy I question based on his failure at Miami. The exact reverse of Bellicek, who was mediocre at best with the browns. It could be said that Bellicek learned his lesson and did better- so why did Jimmy fail in Miami?

Look at the WRs and RBs drafted during his time at Miami.

Not much could be done about the QB situation as Marino was a living legend there.

However a first rounder on yatil green...I personally did not think Yatil was that great coming out of college but nobody will really know what he could have been in the pros because he had back to back injuries his first two years in the league that put him on IR. Almost a mirror image type of situation of Ki-Jana Carter at Cincy although Carter was a consensus #1 back and stud.

RBs...when you can say that Rob Conrad may have been the best Back you drafted while there...it does say something.

I think Jimmy had one back (IIRC) that gained 1k (Abdul-Jabar) and remember the draft where he took Johh Avery (IIRC) in the first when many did not consider him a first rounder.
 

Xy_Oldone

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burmafrd;1352726 said:
Everything about Jimmy I question based on his failure at Miami. The exact reverse of Bellicek, who was mediocre at best with the browns. It could be said that Bellicek learned his lesson and did better- so why did Jimmy fail in Miami?


Failure? Huh. You mean going to the playoffs every year failure?

I live down here. He had no controll. He wanted to trade Marino and get some draft picks. No. Could not do it.

Untill you live in S. Florida and see how much controll Huzienga (sp?) and Shula have you will never understand.

And if Jimmy was such a failure why did he do better than Shula in his final years and everyone who came after him. Miami has barely made it to the playoffs since he has left.

Come on get real.
 

Doomsday101

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Xy_Oldone;1352754 said:
Failure? Huh. You mean going to the playoffs every year failure?

I live down here. He had no controll. He wanted to trade Marino and get some draft picks. No. Could not do it.

Untill you live in S. Florida and see how much controll Huzienga (sp?) and Shula have you will never understand.

And if Jimmy was such a failure why did he do better than Shula in his final years and everyone who came after him. Miami has barely made it to the playoffs since he has left.

Come on get real.

Jimmy was HC/GM when he hired in at Miami. He failed to ever draft a RB taking something like 5 RB only to watch each one fail. I think Jimmy is a good coach but even good coaches do fail
 

Xy_Oldone

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Doomsday101;1352758 said:
Jimmy was HC/GM when he hired in at Miami. He failed to ever draft a RB taking something like 5 RB only to watch each one fail. I think Jimmy is a good coach but even good coaches do fail


So even though he got them to the playoffs every year. And did it without total controll. And kept a pretty solid team. He failed because he did not find a running back?!?! lol.
 

Doomsday101

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Xy_Oldone;1352774 said:
So even though he got them to the playoffs every year. And did it without total controll. And kept a pretty solid team. He failed because he did not find a running back?!?! lol.

Miami was making the playoffs before Jimmy took over, they would lose in the playoffs but they were making it to post season under shula. As for control Jimmy was the GM of that team as well as HC he had control and yes drafting RB after RB in an attempt to copy what he did in Dallas was a big reason that Miami continue to suffer and the reason they finally just ended up trading to get Ricky Williams. As I said I think Jimmy is a good coach but yes he failed in Miami even Ray Charles could see that.
 

Kalyan

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Jimmy did build a superbowl ready defense quickly. His problems like every one is sayin gis finding a work horse running back to play smashmouth football and win with defense. He couldn't get that RB. Also I remember Marino throwing pick after pick in crucial games and in playoffs.

I don't consider his tenure as a failure. We dallas fans consider not going to the SB as a failure, but he didn't get a few things going his way. Remember when he said he would have drafted Moss had he knew that Moss would be on the board when they picked?
 

Xy_Oldone

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Doomsday101;1352784 said:
Miami was making the playoffs before Jimmy took over, they would lose in the playoffs but they were making it to post season under shula. As for control Jimmy was the GM of that team as well as HC he had control and yes drafting RB after RB in an attempt to copy what he did in Dallas was a big reason that Miami continue to suffer and the reason they finally just ended up trading to get Ricky Williams. As I said I think Jimmy is a good coach but yes he failed in Miami even Ray Charles could see that.

There is no way he failed in Miami but I will not continue to argue with you. Your since of failure is askew.

Do not forget that he drafted: Zach Thomas, Jason Taylor, Sam Madison, and Patrick Surtain.

He had a 26-21 record. While not the greatest. It is still a WINNING record I do believe.
 

Doomsday101

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ykc;1352788 said:
Jimmy did build a superbowl ready defense quickly. His problems like every one is sayin gis finding a work horse running back to play smashmouth football and win with defense. He couldn't get that RB. Also I remember Marino throwing pick after pick in crucial games and in playoffs.

I don't consider his tenure as a failure. We dallas fans consider not going to the SB as a failure, but he didn't get a few things going his way. Remember when he said he would have drafted Moss had he knew that Moss would be on the board when they picked?

Miami was 9-7 the year before Jimmy took over in 96 they went 8-8 missed the playoffs, 97 9-7 bumped out 1st rd. 98 10-6 bumped out in 2nd rd and 99 9-7 tourched in the 1st rd 62 to7.
 

Xy_Oldone

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Doomsday101;1352802 said:
Miami was 9-7 the year before Jimmy took over in 96 they went 8-8 missed the playoffs, 97 9-7 bumped out 1st rd. 98 10-6 bumped out in 2nd rd and 99 9-7 tourched in the 1st rd 62 to7.


Looks like 3 playoff apperiances in 4 years. Better than most teams. That would be a success by most peoples standards. And I bet a lot of teams would like to have that kind of failure.
 

Doomsday101

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Xy_Oldone;1352811 said:
Looks like 3 playoff apperiances in 4 years. Better than most teams. That would be a success by most peoples standards. And I bet a lot of teams would like to have that kind of failure.

Cards, Lions and a few others maybe. Dolphins have had their share of winning just like Dallas and When Johnson took the job, he pledged that the Dolphins would reach the Super Bowl in three years. Instead he finished 38-31 with Miami.
 

ABQCOWBOY

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burmafrd;1352746 said:
No arguement that Brady was a major factor; that as well as having a good base that BP left there, and a good staff too. BUT that begs the question of WHY Jimmy failed at Miami in his second stint.

All just said it. There was no Franchise QB in place in Miami.

There was also no running game, no offensive line and no defensive line. Jimmy's offense consisted of a balanced attack. Miami was set up to throw the ball 70% of the time.

Jimmy also didn't have control where Marino was concerned. Dan was past his prime and injury prone at that point in his career IMO. In 1996, Marino only passed for 2795 yards. That's not a lot. He played in 13 games but was always nicked up. There running game consisted of Jabar, Spikes and Parmalee. They really only had Richmond Webb and Everett McIver on the OL.

Defensively, they had Trace Armstrong, who was a good DE, but nobody else on the DL. Tim Bowens was solid but not spectacular. Steve Emtman was injury prone, Daryle Gardner was a rookie, Aaron Jones was nobody, Daniel Stubbs was past his best days and Norman Hand, while a good player, was injured in 96. At LB they litterally had nothing except Zach Thomas. He was a rookie in 96. DBs they had Robert Bailey who was just OK, JB Brown (Same as Bailey), Terrell Buckley (who in those days was getting beat like a drum), Sean Hill (another nobody), Calvin Jackson (See Sean Hill), Tim Jacobs (See Calvin Jackson), Jerry Wilson, who was really a safety playing CB and that's it at Corner. They had Gene Atkins who was good at Safety, they had Louis Oliver who was also a good Safety and they had Shawn Wooden who was a rookie.

A future HOF QB who didn't want to run the offense in place, no running game to speak of and no personel on the defensive side of the ball.

Even so, Miami went 8-8 that year. Over the course of the next few years, Jimmy collected talent but he still had the issues of Marino. He also never had cap. In 97 Jimmy added Sam Maddison at CB, Brett Perriman through FA, Derrick Rodgers at LB, Jason Taylor at DE, George Teague thru FA and started developing the other young players on the team. That year Miami made the playoffs and went 9-7. The next year 98, Miami got John Avery to help the running game, Orlando Gadsden, Robert Jones to help the LBs, Broke Marion to help the secondary, drafted Sertain at CB and the team again improved. They went 10-6 and made the playoffs. In 99, Dan Marino was again injured, threw for only 2448 yards, 55% Comp, 12 TDs and 17 picks. With no passing threat, the running game stalled. The leading rusher that year was JJ Johnson with 558 yards. Abdul Jabar was traded to Cleveland and so it was running back by committe. The defense did play well thou giving up on 16.4 point a contest. The team went 9-7 with no offensive punch and again made the playoffs. They ran into a buzz saw in Jacksonville that year and lost 62-7 in the second round of the playoffs. I just think that between the whole Marino thing, the cap issues and that beat down by the Jags in the playoffs, Jimmy just looked at his life and decided life was too short. He had just gone through a divorce and Margaritaville was looking pretty good to him at that point.

You can look at it as a failure but in truth, Jimmy came to Miami with not much there. He left them much better off from the stand point of personel. He made the playoffs 3 out of 4 years and he was able to post a winning record of 36-28.

Sounds sort of familiar in a way. Either way, I don't know that I would call him a failure in Miami. I just think that the circumstances were not right for Jimmy to succeed the way he wanted to in Miami.
 

ABQCOWBOY

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Doomsday101;1352758 said:
Jimmy was HC/GM when he hired in at Miami. He failed to ever draft a RB taking something like 5 RB only to watch each one fail. I think Jimmy is a good coach but even good coaches do fail

IMO, the problem was one of the offensive line, more so then the talent at RB. He didnt' have great talent, that's true but he did have Avery, Jabar, Conrad and Ceicl Collins.

He just never had a good OL in place.
 

Doomsday101

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ABQCOWBOY;1352830 said:
IMO, the problem was one of the offensive line, more so then the talent at RB. He didnt' have great talent, that's true but he did have Avery, Jabar, Conrad and Ceicl Collins.

He just never had a good OL in place.

Whose fault is that? He was the GM and HC he was in charge. Miami was making post season with Don Shula as HC prior to Jimmy coming to Miami it is not as if he took over a 5-11 team he took over a 9-7 team who was 10-6 the year before that. I do think Jimmy Johnson is a good coach but like any other coach not everything goes as plan. I see the shots folks take at Parcells but fact is Bill took over a much bigger mess than Jimmy was dealing with.
 

mmillman

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They got a huge gift when Brady fell to them and they only had to expend a 5th or 6th round choice for a possible HOF QB.

Dallas has an opportunity with Romo to build around him on offense with no draft picks or huge free agent bucks to use for him. This should allow Dallas a lot of flexibility when it comes to free agency and drafting the best athelete available.
 

ABQCOWBOY

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Doomsday101;1352843 said:
Whose fault is that? He was the GM and HC he was in charge. Miami was making post season with Don Shula as HC prior to Jimmy coming to Miami it is not as if he took over a 5-11 team he took over a 9-7 team who was 10-6 the year before that. I do think Jimmy Johnson is a good coach but like any other coach not everything goes as plan. I see the shots folks take at Parcells but fact is Bill took over a much bigger mess than Jimmy was dealing with.

Why don't you go out and hire yourself a GM. Then tell him your stuck with an aging great QB who can't do it any longer but you can't get rid of him or make him run your offense. Tell him you have little talent and you don't have any cap to sign players. Lets see how succesful he is. You can't do it all in 4 seasons when you start with as little as they had in Miami. You act as if this was a great team when Jimmy got there. I call BS on that. The fact of the matter is that the 10 years prior to Jimmy getting there, Don Shula only made the playoffs 4 times. 5 of those years, he failed to post a winning season. His record over his last 10 years was 89-70.

Don Shula didn't exactly leave the team stocked for the winter. Gone in 96 from the previous seasons (recent) were Keith Byars, Gary Clark, Brian Cox, Marco Colemen, Jeff Cross, Irving Fryer, Terry Kirby, Troy Vincent, Clevelenad Gary, Houston Hoover, Mark Ingram, Bert Weidner, Jeff Dalenbach, John Offerdhal, Mark Dennis and Freddie Banks. All of those guys were key players that Jimmy had to replace. In the 13 seasons prior to Jimmy coming to Miami, Dan Marino averaged 3757 yards a season, 27 TDs, 16.7 INTs, 59.9 Comp% and a QB rating of 89.06. In the last 4 seasons, Marino averaged 3130 yards as season, 17 TDs, 13 INTs, COMP% of 57.6 and a QB Rating of 78.9. Marino had dropped way off.

I guess it's Jimmy's fault for taking the job in the first place.
 
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