FoxSports.com: 10/10/07 He Said, She Said-Emmitt vs Barry

[ThreeSportStar80]

Give me Emmitt Smith... Enough said, look at the postseason stats!

 

[Thomas82]

co sign

I dont give a crap about highlight reel sportcenter runs...I want a RUNNING BACK that will move the chains and do everything that his TEAM needs. After all, it is the ultimate team sport.

I always say that you can take Barry, and I'll take Emmitt and the Super Bowl....every single time.




YAKUZA

I'll cosign on both of these posts.

 

[jobberone]

I don't recall Emmitt ever rushing for negative yardage in a playoff game.

I don't recall Emmitt being taken out of the game near the goalline.


I also don't recall Emmitt leading the NFL in carries for loss pretty much every year of his career.




For sportscenter highlights, Barry > Emmitt.

For winning football games, Emmitt > Barry.

Rack, when are you going to do something to that heap you've got?

 

[Thomas82]

I agree and why could no other RB on the Cowboys team behind the same OL get the job done? When Emmitt was out Dallas lost games and other backs were not able to produce much.

AMEN!!! AMEN!!! AMEN!!!

 

[Calvin2Tony2Emmitt2Julius]

emmit hands down was the better of the two i mean the record says it all
his strive his consistency and not to mention his o so smooth operator swagg caused hym to be a record breaking,fan loving, mambo doin(dancing with the stars) true cowboy......C0wboys are not just known for what they do on the field but their appreciation of the game, the love of their fans,family values,and there all around good moral systems.....emmit is a prime example of this............[this is calvin2tony2emmitt2julius's daughter] ;]
go cowboys!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Thomas82]

emmit hands down was the better of the two i mean the record says it all
his strive his consistency and not to mention his o so smooth operator swagg caused hym to be a record breaking,fan loving, mambo doin(dancing with the stars) true cowboy......C0wboys are not just known for what they do on the field but their appreciation of the game, the love of their fans,family values,and there all around good moral systems.....emmit is a prime example of this............[this is calvin2tony2emmitt2julius's daughter] ;]
go cowboys!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I don't disagree with any of this.

 

[Thomas82]

I remember watching Cold Pizza before it became First Take, and they had Barry as a guest and he said that he didn't think Emmitt had the moves he had and was as nimble as he was. He said he always saw Emmitt as more of a power back. He said LT was current back that reminded him the most of himself.

 

[BAT]

Every argument for Sanders in the "Who was Better" always hinges on:

"if he did this(kept playing)", "if he had this (OL, fullback)", "he could have done this (rushing record, scored TDs)", "he would have done that (win playoffs, championships)"

The fact remains that Emmitt:

1) Never quit, kept playing even hurt
2) Ran through holes made by his OL, followed his FB
3) Some forget that Emmitt was considered undersized YET he excelled on the goalline b/c of his heart, grit & vision
3) Emmitt was not gifted the rushing record, HE EARNED IT
4) Catch 22 was a winner, in the regular season, in the postseason, in championship games - always came to play, the bigger the game, the bigger he played

Barry was ONE of the greatest RBs to ever play but Emmitt IS THE GREATEST to ever play. No one did more with less. Even w/his "limitations", Emmitt was EXCEPTIONAL and WON at every da*m*n level he played. He was the ONE player that the 90's Cowboys could not WIN without.

Haters can asterisk it all they want, its not about potential, it is about production.

Emmitt Smith may not be the prettiest runner (not an ugly runner by any means either) but he was, BY FAR, the most productive.

 

[Scotman]

OK, we're talking about football...right? Not track. We play football to WIN GAMES. Period. Every discussion of every player should begin and end with that.

When we draft a player, it is with the hope that they will help us win games. That is true of every position.

So here's a hypothetical that should be asked every time analysts are asking who is the better of any two comparable players:

You have the first pick in the draft and you need to build a team capable of winning the superbowl. Your job depends on your wins and losses. Both Emmitt Smith and Barry Sanders are available, who do you pick?

I'd pick Emmitt.

 

[Sarge]

OK, we're talking about football...right? Not track. We play football to WIN GAMES. .

Point is well-taken but............with that logic, was Doug Williams a better QB than Dan Marino....

 

[Rack]

Point is well-taken but............with that logic, was Doug Williams a better QB than Dan Marino....

Dan Marino's team won A LOT more games than Dough Williams' teams.

 

[dbair1967]

Point is well-taken but............with that logic, was Doug Williams a better QB than Dan Marino....

no, but its not exactly the best comparison because in addition to winning super bowls, Emmitt won multiple league rushing titles, scored a bazillion tds and mvp awards...Williams was just a mediocre to average starter who happened to be along for the ride on a fluke strike year team that won a super bowl

point is, he was a winner and put up huge numbers

David

 

[Thomas82]

no, but its not exactly the best comparison because in addition to winning super bowls, Emmitt won multiple league rushing titles, scored a bazillion tds and mvp awards...Williams was just a mediocre to average starter who happened to be along for the ride on a fluke strike year team that won a super bowl

point is, he was a winner and put up huge numbers

David

Can't argue with that.

 

[Thomas82]

Here is an old post of mine that I dug up from the archives when this was discussed a while back.

I posted this on 4/11/2006:


I believe Emmitt never/still doesn't get the respect or credit that he deserves for the career he had? I had a discussion with a friend today and we both thought it was sad that a lot of people (media) don't even put Emmitt in their top 5. Some have him in the bottom half of their top 10.

Here are my thoughts:

First of all, I believe the Cowboys offensive line of the 90s got too much credit for the career Emmitt had, and it seems to me that he made that line look better than what it was. I say that because the first 2 years he made the Pro-Bowl, NONE of his linemen made it, or when he won his first rushing title none of his linemen made it. Jimmy Johnson and Nate Newton both admitted that there were several times when the line wasn't blocking well that Emmitt bailed them out. I will say that those linemen do deserve credit for stepping their games up, but Emmitt was a major factor in the way they were perceived, along with the coaches, and Moose.

The thing that kills me about the whole thing is the ridiculous misconception that the line had 5 garunteed Hall Of Famers, ANYBODY could run behind that line and get 1000 yards, Barry Sanders would get 2000 yards every year. There are a lot of people who think the line from that era is the best in NFL history. The thing about it is 3/5 of that line was there years before Emmitt got there. Jim Erkenbeck couldn't do much with them, and they were considered mediocre linemen. I'm talking about Nate Newton, Mark Tuinei, and Kevin Gogan. All 3 were there when Tony Dorsett was still on the team. Tuinei was there when TD was still IN HIS PRIME!!! He came to the team in 1983 as a DT, then got converted. Newton came in 1986, and Gogan the year after.

I just have one question: If that line was as good as everybody made them out to be, why couldn't Emmitt's back-ups come in and put up the same production whenever he wasn't in the game? They had to run behind that same line, and they got their chances to produce when Emmitt was either getting a breather, or when he was hurt and couldn't get it done.

I think the things that are said about Emmitt and that offensive line are better suited for Terrell Davis. How else could you explain Denver having a 1000 yard rusher in 10 out of the past 11 seasons? In that span they had 5 DIFFERENT backs go over 1000 (Terrell Davis, Olandis Gary, Mike Anderson, Clinton Portis, Reuben Droughns). Whenever Terell Davis didn't play, the Broncos running game actually didn't miss a beat. That makes you wonder whether it was the offensive line or the system. I believe it was both. How else could Mike Anderson come in from the Marines and rush for almost 1500 as a rookie?

One last thing, I don't believe that the Lions line gets enough credit for what Barry Sanders did. Last time I checked, football was still a team sport. Barry didn't do all of that on his own, that line had to do SOMETHING right for him to get all those yards. People act like the offensive line wasn't there at all, like the offense was in skeleton and the defense had their full 11 players. ALL running backs look the same with no offensive line, even the best ones would look average. I don't care whether the RB is Jim Brown, Walter Payton, or whoever, if you don't have a line to block for you, you are going nowhere, PERIOD.

 

[LeonDixson]

Here is an old post of mine that I dug up from the archives when this was discussed a while back.

I posted this on 4/11/2006:

I agree with everything you wrote. Here is an article from Sports Illustrated on the day that Emmitt retired. I saved it because I thought it did a great job of shooting down some the Emmitt naysayers arguments.

Every time I've read this article I've just wanted to stand up and say "HECK YEAH! HE IS THE GREATEST EVER!!


Give Emmitt Smith his due
How could the greatest ever be called underrated?

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/20...mitt/index.html

It's nearly impossible to hold one of the greatest records in sports and still be labeled underrated, but that's exactly what Emmitt Smith is. The all-time leading rusher reportedly will retire from the NFL today, and no doubt will be described by announcers, analysts and writers as a future Hall of Famer and one of the greatest players of his generation.

The simple truth, however, is Smith is more than that. He is the greatest running back of all time.

What makes Smith so underrated is that, as deserving as he is of the honor, most experts would have a hard time putting Smith on their list of the top-three tailbacks ever and possibly even their top five. While immortals such as Jim Brown, Walter Payton and Barry Sanders certainly deserve to be near the top of the list, Smith has done everything to earn his place atop the throne.

Smith is everything you want in a running back. He is the epitome of the "complete back" often referenced by coaches. He was a ferocious blocker, a deadly receiver out of the backfield and, if he was given an open lane, chances were that the ball he was holding would end up in his legendary storage room that houses every one of his 175 touchdown balls.

Although Smith played on immensely talented teams with offensive lines stocked with Pro Bowlers, his accomplishments shouldn't be diminished. No one would dare penalize Joe Montana for playing amongst legends. Montana is widely considered the best quarterback ever, despite playing alongside Jerry Rice and Roger Craig, behind an All-Pro offensive line and in a Bill Walsh-inspired West Coast offense that turned Steve Young from a backup has-been into a Hall of Famer.

Smith was the heart and soul of the Cowboys during their run of three Super Bowl titles in the 1990s. That was never more evident than in '93 when Smith missed the first two games of the season as the star-laden Cowboys started the year 0-2. Smith missed portions of two other games that season, and both resulted in Dallas losses. The Cowboys went on to win the Super Bowl that year on the legs of Smith.

Contrary to what others believe, Smith also didn't outstay his welcome in the NFL or play beyond his years in order to rack up records. Last season he rushed for nearly 1,000 yards (937) and ran for nine touchdowns. If Smith had retired after nine seasons as Brown did he would have more yards and touchdowns than the Cleveland Browns great. If he had called it a career after 13 seasons as Payton did he would also have more rushing yards and touchdowns than Sweetness. But most wouldn't even put No. 22 in their class.

While Brown had the mystique, Sanders the highlights and Payton the reputation, Smith has the numbers, titles and intangibles that make him the Michael Jordan of ball carriers. His predecessors are certainly immortals in their own right -- but it's important to note that Smith never quit on his team, never failed to block for his quarterback, never finished a playoff game with negative rushing yards, never was replaced on goal-line or passing situations and never played on mediocre teams while he won rushing titles.

There is no reason why anyone should need to make a case for Smith being the best back ever. But since it's a foreign idea for most, let's go over what Smith has done during a storied 15-year career.

Any argument for Smith should begin with the coveted all-time rushing title, which Smith should hold for some time judging by the durability of today's tailbacks. His 18,355 career-rushing yards not only shatters Payton's former record of 16,726, but it dwarfs Brown's total of 12,312 yards, which was once thought to be as untouchable as Hank Aaron's 755 home runs.

Aside from racking up the most yards on the ground, Smith also accumulated a record 164 touchdowns on the ground, 41 TDs ahead of second-place Marcus Allen. A nice chunk of Smith's scores came during his career-best '95 season when he ran for a then-record 25 rushing touchdowns. He broke the record on a Christmas Monday night game in Arizona to give the Cowboys the NFC East crown and home-field advantage throughout the playoffs.

Not only did Smith compile record-breaking yards and touchdowns during the regular season, he took his game to another level in the playoffs. He owns the NFL postseason records for rushing yards (1,586), rushing touchdowns (19), consecutive games with a rushing touchdown (nine), 100-yard rushing games (seven) and shares the total playoff-touchdown mark of 21 with Thurman Thomas.

Smith had arguably the greatest five-year run of any player, regardless of position, in NFL history from '91 to '95. He won four rushing titles, becoming the first player to post five consecutive seasons of more than 1,400 yards rushing. His team won a record three Super Bowls in four years, as he became the first rushing champion to be on a Super Bowl championship team. He won a Super Bowl MVP and a league MVP in '93. At that point he was just beginning a streak that would make him the first player in NFL history to rush for 1,000 yards in 11 consecutive seasons and the first to pass the 1,000 mark that many times in a career.

The fact Smith's resume is filled with the words first, most, greatest and record-breaking still don't impress many pundits, who crave flashier, more dynamic players. They want players with stories to tell. You know, the kind you sit down and tell your kids around the campfire one day. Well, if you're looking for folk-hero type tales, Smith has those too.

There was, of course, his signature game and one of the most courageous performances in league history on a cold January day in '94. The Cowboys faced a stingy Giants defense in the frigid Meadowlands with the NFC East title and home-field advantage throughout the playoffs on the line. Smith, playing most of the game with a separated shoulder, rushed for 168 yards and caught 10 passes for 61 more yards and a touchdown, leading Dallas to a 16-13 overtime victory.

There was also the time he ran for a career-high 237 yards, including a 62-yard touchdown against the Eagles in the pouring rain at the Vet in '94. The time he ran for 163 yards and a team-record four touchdowns on the season-opening Monday night game at Giants Stadium, including his first carry, which went for a 60-yard score, in '95. And the time he ran for 150 yards and set a club record with three playoff touchdowns, including two key fourth-quarter scores, to give the Cowboys a 38-27 win in the '96 NFC Championship game -- and in the process popularized the "raise-the-roof" gesture.

One of Smith's greatest games, unfortunately, will never get the credit it deserves because he was forced to leave in the second quarter. Still grieving the loss of Payton, his childhood idol, who had died earlier that week, Smith went to Minneapolis on Monday night in '99 and put on a performance for the ages against the Vikings. In less than one half of football, Smith ran for 140 yards and two touchdowns on 13 carries. Included in his first-half totals were 63- and 24-yard touchdown runs on back-to-back carries just 18 seconds apart -- the fastest anyone has scored consecutive touchdowns in league history. Smith, however, would be forced to leave the game for good with over six minutes remaining in the second quarter as he broke his right hand on his second score. If he had continued, Smith, who refused to go down that night, probably would have passed Payton's record of 275 yards rushing in a single game. "I draped his jersey, 34, on my back, gave him honor and said, 'Let me go play now,'" Smith would later say. "It was just a moment, a moment that I wanted to lift him up and say, 'Thank you, thank you for what you've done.'"

 

[TellerMorrow34]

I don't recall Emmitt ever rushing for negative yardage in a playoff game.

I don't recall Emmitt being taken out of the game near the goalline.


I also don't recall Emmitt leading the NFL in carries for loss pretty much every year of his career.




For sportscenter highlights, Barry > Emmitt.

For winning football games, Emmitt > Barry.

Which I'm sure had zero do do with:

Dallas O-Line > Lions O-Line

Michael Irvin > Any Lions recievers

Troy Aikman > Any Lions QB

Cowboys Defense > Lions Defense

Emmitt was amazing. Absolutely outstanding. But I doubt, very serious, had Barry played in Dallas during that time frame that we'd have some how been worse because he wasn't Emmitt.

 

[Thomas82]

I agree with everything you wrote. Here is an article from Sports Illustrated on the day that Emmitt retired. I saved it because I thought it did a great job of shooting down some the Emmitt naysayers arguments.

Every time I've read this article I've just wanted to stand up and say "HECK YEAH! HE IS THE GREATEST EVER!!


Give Emmitt Smith his due
How could the greatest ever be called underrated?

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/20...mitt/index.html

It's nearly impossible to hold one of the greatest records in sports and still be labeled underrated, but that's exactly what Emmitt Smith is. The all-time leading rusher reportedly will retire from the NFL today, and no doubt will be described by announcers, analysts and writers as a future Hall of Famer and one of the greatest players of his generation.

The simple truth, however, is Smith is more than that. He is the greatest running back of all time.

What makes Smith so underrated is that, as deserving as he is of the honor, most experts would have a hard time putting Smith on their list of the top-three tailbacks ever and possibly even their top five. While immortals such as Jim Brown, Walter Payton and Barry Sanders certainly deserve to be near the top of the list, Smith has done everything to earn his place atop the throne.

Smith is everything you want in a running back. He is the epitome of the "complete back" often referenced by coaches. He was a ferocious blocker, a deadly receiver out of the backfield and, if he was given an open lane, chances were that the ball he was holding would end up in his legendary storage room that houses every one of his 175 touchdown balls.

Although Smith played on immensely talented teams with offensive lines stocked with Pro Bowlers, his accomplishments shouldn't be diminished. No one would dare penalize Joe Montana for playing amongst legends. Montana is widely considered the best quarterback ever, despite playing alongside Jerry Rice and Roger Craig, behind an All-Pro offensive line and in a Bill Walsh-inspired West Coast offense that turned Steve Young from a backup has-been into a Hall of Famer.

Smith was the heart and soul of the Cowboys during their run of three Super Bowl titles in the 1990s. That was never more evident than in '93 when Smith missed the first two games of the season as the star-laden Cowboys started the year 0-2. Smith missed portions of two other games that season, and both resulted in Dallas losses. The Cowboys went on to win the Super Bowl that year on the legs of Smith.

Contrary to what others believe, Smith also didn't outstay his welcome in the NFL or play beyond his years in order to rack up records. Last season he rushed for nearly 1,000 yards (937) and ran for nine touchdowns. If Smith had retired after nine seasons as Brown did he would have more yards and touchdowns than the Cleveland Browns great. If he had called it a career after 13 seasons as Payton did he would also have more rushing yards and touchdowns than Sweetness. But most wouldn't even put No. 22 in their class.

While Brown had the mystique, Sanders the highlights and Payton the reputation, Smith has the numbers, titles and intangibles that make him the Michael Jordan of ball carriers. His predecessors are certainly immortals in their own right -- but it's important to note that Smith never quit on his team, never failed to block for his quarterback, never finished a playoff game with negative rushing yards, never was replaced on goal-line or passing situations and never played on mediocre teams while he won rushing titles.

There is no reason why anyone should need to make a case for Smith being the best back ever. But since it's a foreign idea for most, let's go over what Smith has done during a storied 15-year career.

Any argument for Smith should begin with the coveted all-time rushing title, which Smith should hold for some time judging by the durability of today's tailbacks. His 18,355 career-rushing yards not only shatters Payton's former record of 16,726, but it dwarfs Brown's total of 12,312 yards, which was once thought to be as untouchable as Hank Aaron's 755 home runs.

Aside from racking up the most yards on the ground, Smith also accumulated a record 164 touchdowns on the ground, 41 TDs ahead of second-place Marcus Allen. A nice chunk of Smith's scores came during his career-best '95 season when he ran for a then-record 25 rushing touchdowns. He broke the record on a Christmas Monday night game in Arizona to give the Cowboys the NFC East crown and home-field advantage throughout the playoffs.

Not only did Smith compile record-breaking yards and touchdowns during the regular season, he took his game to another level in the playoffs. He owns the NFL postseason records for rushing yards (1,586), rushing touchdowns (19), consecutive games with a rushing touchdown (nine), 100-yard rushing games (seven) and shares the total playoff-touchdown mark of 21 with Thurman Thomas.

Smith had arguably the greatest five-year run of any player, regardless of position, in NFL history from '91 to '95. He won four rushing titles, becoming the first player to post five consecutive seasons of more than 1,400 yards rushing. His team won a record three Super Bowls in four years, as he became the first rushing champion to be on a Super Bowl championship team. He won a Super Bowl MVP and a league MVP in '93. At that point he was just beginning a streak that would make him the first player in NFL history to rush for 1,000 yards in 11 consecutive seasons and the first to pass the 1,000 mark that many times in a career.

The fact Smith's resume is filled with the words first, most, greatest and record-breaking still don't impress many pundits, who crave flashier, more dynamic players. They want players with stories to tell. You know, the kind you sit down and tell your kids around the campfire one day. Well, if you're looking for folk-hero type tales, Smith has those too.

There was, of course, his signature game and one of the most courageous performances in league history on a cold January day in '94. The Cowboys faced a stingy Giants defense in the frigid Meadowlands with the NFC East title and home-field advantage throughout the playoffs on the line. Smith, playing most of the game with a separated shoulder, rushed for 168 yards and caught 10 passes for 61 more yards and a touchdown, leading Dallas to a 16-13 overtime victory.

There was also the time he ran for a career-high 237 yards, including a 62-yard touchdown against the Eagles in the pouring rain at the Vet in '94. The time he ran for 163 yards and a team-record four touchdowns on the season-opening Monday night game at Giants Stadium, including his first carry, which went for a 60-yard score, in '95. And the time he ran for 150 yards and set a club record with three playoff touchdowns, including two key fourth-quarter scores, to give the Cowboys a 38-27 win in the '96 NFC Championship game -- and in the process popularized the "raise-the-roof" gesture.

One of Smith's greatest games, unfortunately, will never get the credit it deserves because he was forced to leave in the second quarter. Still grieving the loss of Payton, his childhood idol, who had died earlier that week, Smith went to Minneapolis on Monday night in '99 and put on a performance for the ages against the Vikings. In less than one half of football, Smith ran for 140 yards and two touchdowns on 13 carries. Included in his first-half totals were 63- and 24-yard touchdown runs on back-to-back carries just 18 seconds apart -- the fastest anyone has scored consecutive touchdowns in league history. Smith, however, would be forced to leave the game for good with over six minutes remaining in the second quarter as he broke his right hand on his second score. If he had continued, Smith, who refused to go down that night, probably would have passed Payton's record of 275 yards rushing in a single game. "I draped his jersey, 34, on my back, gave him honor and said, 'Let me go play now,'" Smith would later say. "It was just a moment, a moment that I wanted to lift him up and say, 'Thank you, thank you for what you've done.'"

Man, this was a nice article. I never saw this one.

 

[Thomas82]

Bump!!

 

[jem88]

I always feel that any time you have to deal in hypotheticals to justify calling someone the best, you're reaching. It's also a very easy game to play: What if Randy Moss had played with Brady his whole career? Or had Steve Young and/or Montana like Rice? Would he be the greatest ever?

Emmitt was the more effective running back. He takes it in every tangible category: yards, TDs, Super Bowl rings. To me, that makes him the best.

 

[Thomas82]

I always feel that any time you have to deal in hypotheticals to justify calling someone the best, you're reaching. It's also a very easy game to play: What if Randy Moss had played with Brady his whole career? Or had Steve Young and/or Montana like Rice? Would he be the greatest ever?

Emmitt was the more effective running back. He takes it in every tangible category: yards, TDs, Super Bowl rings. To me, that makes him the best.

Very well said.