Free and the coaches film

[jjktkk]

I am still waiting for a post from you that is worth reading

Translation: I don't need to see no gadum film. I just know. :laugh2:

 

[Brooksey]

Eskimo, I'm not an offensive lineman expert and I never played the OL (consistently that is) nor coached it as a position coach. So I don't have the expertise to break down the subtleties of that position. I can tell you just the things I've reported so far. And I don't know how to compare him with other tackles in the league either. I will say there are definitely tackles that are more dominant than he is or likely ever will be.

I'm just eyeballing it. I don't have the time nor the system to grade him comparatively with all current NFL tackles nor would I expect it to mean much if I were to attempt that. I'm comfortable saying what I've said so far though. But it's a great idea. Maybe someone else can do it.

Doug Free's performance on these plays and certain plays we all witnessed "live" over the course of the season is not what is expected of a guy making that kind of cash. The guy is being paid to "lock down" the right side and he turned it into a liability. His performance was pathetic and as an ex-undersized offensive lineman, I never got bullied or beat like that...ever. He almost got Tony killed on multiple occasions and that does not happen with good to great lineman. The video's in the TB game in itself are enough to say something is very, very wrong. I suspect he is finished and we'll be cutting ties with Doug Free come June 1st. He stays only with a pay cut of about 6 million a year.

I might consider giving him a new "one year deal" worth 1.2 million with less then half guaranteed. There is too much talent in this year's draft at tackle not to upgrade and let the new guy battle with Parnell and save a ton of cash with the cap.

 

[jobberone]

Dallas at Carolina

Not a very good game although Romo made enough big plays primarily to Austin that we won. I could say Carolina lost it and probably be more correct. We had problems getting in the endzone and Bailey came thru.

Free had a very good game. No sacks given up and played pretty well in the run game although I can't say the same for them all. He had problems on one play in the first half and again it was the bull rush. He landed up almost at Romo's feet but it didn't affect the play. He actually did better this game against the bull rush as that was the only play in the game he had any problems. Most of the rushes were from the outside and he handled that very well. I don't know if that was because of the competition or he just played that well. In any event he got the job done.

 

[burmafrd]

Translation: I don't need to see no gadum film. I just know. :laugh2:

you don't need to get slapped in the face with a 3 day old dead fish to smell it.

Just on regular DVR rewinds you can watch Free stink it up regularly.

 

[jobberone]

you don't need to get slapped in the face with a 3 day old dead fish to smell it.

Just on regular DVR rewinds you can watch Free stink it up regularly.

You're adding nothing to the thread. If you can show me plays where he stinks it up in the Carolina game then please do. I can view the full game, condensed version or coaches film. So all you have to do is point out all the plays with the counter on any of those and we can all look at what you're referring to.

 

[CowboyRoy]

I've heard so much about Free that I decided to look at all the games and just focus on him using the all 22. I'd looked at an occasional all 22 and looked at Free some but I'm just going to look at him. It takes me less than an hour to watch a game including looking at some plays more than once. I did not watch the defense play much at all but that's not the goal here.

If any others want to post their comments please do so. You don't have to have the all 22 to do so either. It would be nice to get some comments from the coaches film from others though.

Game 1: Dal vs NYG

Free had a pretty good game. He gave up no sacks, was decent in the run game and was very good sealing and getting to the second level. If he can make contact on a player off him then he will drive that player where he wants. He played well against the outside rush getting into position well with good balance and arm extension directing his guy way past Romo.

Having said that let me say that he was only challenged a few times and when bull rushed he didn't do as well although he kept Romo up. He got caught holding on one inside move that could have been a sack. Romo escaped around the pressure to the outside and completed a pass to OT but it got flagged.

NY just didn't rush us that much outside and we got the ball out quickly for the most part. Romo threw a pick when he had pressure up the middle and had to alter his throw as well as throw quickly and off balance. In other words he should have eaten it or thrown it away. He just makes so many plays while escaping and extending plays I can see why he doesn't want to give up. That's a big thing for him to work on. But the pressure came up the middle and not from the edge. He was sacked twice.

I'd have to go back and look at NYs defense as I just concentrated on Free. They looked like they wanted push up the middle and contain on the ends and that's why Free didn't have to respond to much pressure. If anyone wants to comment on that we can let the thread drift as long as we come back to Free.

I did notice that if he lets his guy get into his body he doesn't have the strength to stop the bull rush. I didn't watch his hands this go round but generally he got a punch and extension with good balance with the exceptions being bull rushed or a swim to the inside once. I'll try and watch how they are getting inside and creating problems on the next game. If I have time I'll go back and look at this game again but I'd like to get a few games in and see how the thread goes.

All in all I'd give Free a B here. No A since when attacked he gave up ground a little too often even making Romo move around Free and his guy. So there were some problems I could see but they weren't exploited or challenged much in this game.

If we get a lot of posts here then we'll just do a thread on each game. We'll just have to see how it goes.

I have a comment..............dont waste your time, he is terrible. Do you really have to watch every game over again or did you just forget? If you forgot, then just look at the fact that they are asking him to take a pay cut or take a hike. There is all the evidence you need to confirm what the entire Cowboys world has been saying about Free.

 

[jobberone]

I have a comment..............dont waste your time, he is terrible. Do you really have to watch every game over again or did you just forget? If you forgot, then just look at the fact that they are asking him to take a pay cut or take a hike. There is all the evidence you need to confirm what the entire Cowboys world has been saying about Free.

I don't feel like I'm wasting my time. I remember the end of the year. I just haven't gotten there yet. I didn't remember him playing this well early on though and I'm curious as to when he started having problems. I just started watching the Giants game and he just pancaked Justin Tuck. He's only had one game where he had multiple really poor plays.

I've been here long enough to have seen the crowd get down on players who actually were playing well. Kosier is an example. And the opposite when a player wasn't playing well and most thought he was. Maybe that's crowd mentality and behavior. I don't know.

I don't trust myself to remember his play last year but I do trust the film. I've only done half the year so there's plenty of games for him to suck if that's your worry.

Also, if you already have your mind made up then why not just avoid the thread. You and others of like ilk are not going to believe anything I say and the comments from the peanut gallery are annoying when I'm taking the time to actually look at the player. We're fortunate to live in an age where we even have the ability to do this.

I'll refer anyone else back to this post as I'm not going to converse with these kinds of remarks further. I will finish this but I'm not certain I'll go to the trouble to do anything else like it again.

 

[honyock]

Jobberone, I appreciate what you're dong with this thread. Not having access to the All-22, it's nice to see an objective opinion on a player that comes from laying eyeballs to lots of film and isn't coming from a knee-jerk place.

I did more or less what you're doing this season for the final four games, watching not just Free but the whole line, and using only the network feed and DVR. As someone who never played OL and who has zero scouting experience, it was a great learning experience. Both in learning what to look for in evaluating a player and in getting to know the strengths/weaknesses/progress or lack of progress for individual players over time. It's where I got optimistic in what I was seeing from Parnell, for one example.

I'd encourage anyone to do this if you have time and access. You get a much more in-depth sense of our players beyond the groupthink catchphrases that get repeated over and over. And it makes for good, informative threads. Hope you keep it up. There are probably more of us out here appreciating what you're doing than it may sound like from the responses.

 

[burmafrd]

You're adding nothing to the thread. If you can show me plays where he stinks it up in the Carolina game then please do. I can view the full game, condensed version or coaches film. So all you have to do is point out all the plays with the counter on any of those and we can all look at what you're referring to.

you really think you know it all? Hardly likely. You have already been challenged on your opinions. So frankly I do not care to waste time responding to you.

 

[bsheeern]

I see two major flaws in Free game:

1) at times complete lack of confidence that carries forward.
2) lack of strength at point of contact.

these are not things you want to be discussing for 29 year old offensive lineman entering this 7th season.

I've mentioned this before when talking with couch scout. Free constantly was dropping his head at initial contact. Very bad habit that often comes from a player trying to get a "punch" in to slow down or stop a defenders pass rush or lock on to a guy in run blocking.

Erik Williams could get away with it. In fact it was often one of his best weapons against Reggie White.

Free seems to use it to make up for his weaknesses in other areas. Lineman often develop this bad habit after an injury and start to make themselves believe they must continue to punch with their head to be effective. Or they just have relied on it so much that it becomes a hard habit to break once under pressure.

Either way it has to seen on film if I've noticed it. By both the cowboys and opponents.

 

[CowboyRoy]

I don't feel like I'm wasting my time. I remember the end of the year. I just haven't gotten there yet. I didn't remember him playing this well early on though and I'm curious as to when he started having problems. I just started watching the Giants game and he just pancaked Justin Tuck. He's only had one game where he had multiple really poor plays.

I've been here long enough to have seen the crowd get down on players who actually were playing well. Kosier is an example. And the opposite when a player wasn't playing well and most thought he was. Maybe that's crowd mentality and behavior. I don't know.

I don't trust myself to remember his play last year but I do trust the film. I've only done half the year so there's plenty of games for him to suck if that's your worry.

Also, if you already have your mind made up then why not just avoid the thread. You and others of like ilk are not going to believe anything I say and the comments from the peanut gallery are annoying when I'm taking the time to actually look at the player. We're fortunate to live in an age where we even have the ability to do this.

I'll refer anyone else back to this post as I'm not going to converse with these kinds of remarks further. I will finish this but I'm not certain I'll go to the trouble to do anything else like it again.

Yes, definitely my mind is made up. I have been watching every game he has played and he stinks. Some wishful fan coming on here and telling different because he thinks he watched them in slo mo will do nothing to change that. In fact, if you watch it all over again in slo mo and come up with the idea that he is not that bad, then all that will do is make me question you. Do you take penalties into account in your analysis? He was the most if not the top 3 most penalized lineman in all the NFL last year. I think the year before also. Keep in mind that we are trying to establish a superbowl caliber team here, not some run of the mill 8-8 squad. We dont need average lineman, we need great lineman. Maybe you can hide one mediocre lineman in the bunch, but thats about it. We should strive to have top notch talent throughout the line.

At 8 million per year, the guy HAS to go. Now if he was a backup at 1.5 million per year, maybe its doable.

As far as avoiding the thread, I wil post wherever I please. And most of the time its laughing at drivel like this. You have been taking a beating from everyone on this thread. Maybe you need to realize your dead wrong. But if you want to waste your time, by all means. I was only trying to help you see what a complete waste of time it was. Have at it if you have nothing else to do with your life than try to prove that Free is adequate or whatever it is your attempting to do.

 

[DFWJC]

Most of us appreciate you taking the time and effort to do this jobberone.
It's a heckuva lot more than some around here contribute.

It's up to the individual to take from it what they want.

 

[Idgit]

...As far as avoiding the thread, I wil post wherever I please. And most of the time its laughing at drivel like this. You have been taking a beating from everyone on this thread. Maybe you need to realize your dead wrong. But if you want to waste your time, by all means. I was only trying to help you see what a complete waste of time it was. Have at it if you have nothing else to do with your life than try to prove that Free is adequate or whatever it is your attempting to do.

This is just straight-up disrespect. You've got a right to do this while you're here, but you're wrong, and you're rude, and you probably want to make sure you keep everything inside the forum guidelines. It'd be even better if you try to actually contribute to the discussion in the threads, but that's up to you.

Either way, this is a nice off-season discussion thread that's going on here that depends on posters contributing their time and their ideas to the debate. You're doing neither. Instead, you're pooping in it to get some attention. That's no way to build credibility on a fan forum.

Post where you please. Laugh at whatever you consider to be drivel. Don't expect credible posters to be swayed by the kind of garbage you posted above.

 

[visionary]

It'd be even better if you try to actually contribute to the discussion in the threads, but that's up to you.

.

tough to "actually contribute" to a thread where Doug 'turnstile' Free gets a "B" grade

what does every other OL in the history of the NFL get, an "A"?

 

[WoodysGirl]

tough to "actually contribute" to a thread where Doug 'turnstile' Free gets a "B" grade

what does every other OL in the history of the NFL get, an "A"?

You can contribute to the thread by doing exactly what jobber has done. Watch a game from the all-22 and then posting YOUR observations to dispute what he wrote.

or actually do what bsheern above and actually discuss the issues where Free's game is flawed.

Most everyone who is actually against what jobber has done has done absolutely NOTHING to dispute by posting credible observations.

Leading with and ending with "Free sucks" does nothing to contribute to the thread.

 

[Idgit]

tough to "actually contribute" to a thread where Doug 'turnstile' Free gets a "B" grade

what does every other OL in the history of the NFL get, an "A"?

That post wasn't about Doug Free, visionary. And let's leave it at that.

 

[jobberone]

Jobberone, I appreciate what you're dong with this thread. Not having access to the All-22, it's nice to see an objective opinion on a player that comes from laying eyeballs to lots of film and isn't coming from a knee-jerk place.

I did more or less what you're doing this season for the final four games, watching not just Free but the whole line, and using only the network feed and DVR. As someone who never played OL and who has zero scouting experience, it was a great learning experience. Both in learning what to look for in evaluating a player and in getting to know the strengths/weaknesses/progress or lack of progress for individual players over time. It's where I got optimistic in what I was seeing from Parnell, for one example.

I'd encourage anyone to do this if you have time and access. You get a much more in-depth sense of our players beyond the groupthink catchphrases that get repeated over and over. And it makes for good, informative threads. Hope you keep it up. There are probably more of us out here appreciating what you're doing than it may sound like from the responses.

Thanks honyock. I really appreciate that.

you really think you know it all? Hardly likely. You have already been challenged on your opinions. So frankly I do not care to waste time responding to you.

You mean like you just did?

I've mentioned this before when talking with couch scout. Free constantly was dropping his head at initial contact. Very bad habit that often comes from a player trying to get a "punch" in to slow down or stop a defenders pass rush or lock on to a guy in run blocking.

Erik Williams could get away with it. In fact it was often one of his best weapons against Reggie White.

Free seems to use it to make up for his weaknesses in other areas. Lineman often develop this bad habit after an injury and start to make themselves believe they must continue to punch with their head to be effective. Or they just have relied on it so much that it becomes a hard habit to break once under pressure.

Either way it has to seen on film if I've noticed it. By both the cowboys and opponents.

Thanks for that. As I said I never played OL enough to even be coached in it but I'll be looking at that.

 

[jobberone]

NYG at Dallas

This was a poorly played game and Romo was not throwing the ball well. NY got 11 first downs and we got 28; Romo 36-62-437-1-4. We had two fumbles lost for a total of 6 TOs. Romo was sacked 4 times and Free didn't give up a sack.

Free did his job with a few exceptions. He and the RG let their man thru on a 4th and 1 late forcing Romo back 15 yds and him throwing an INT trying to make a first down. We were down 5 points then. We did get the ball back but couldn't score. The RG's man created the major problem but Free wasn't able to sustain his block and his guy kept Romo from escaping outside. He also had a play where the DE was able to get inside with what looked like a rip. That man did not disrupt the play but it was a failed block. He was asked to pull once and he didn't block anyone. This is usually a strong point for him. He was able to keep the outside rush but on a few plays he did not sustain the block long enough IMO. The play wasn't disrupted but it was concerning. Tuck was just not a problem for him. 72 gave him some problems. He handled the bull rush ok but they didn't do that but a few times. He looked average.

 

[Doomsay]

Dallas at Carolina

Not a very good game although Romo made enough big plays primarily to Austin that we won. I could say Carolina lost it and probably be more correct. We had problems getting in the endzone and Bailey came thru.

Free had a very good game. No sacks given up and played pretty well in the run game although I can't say the same for them all. He had problems on one play in the first half and again it was the bull rush. He landed up almost at Romo's feet but it didn't affect the play. He actually did better this game against the bull rush as that was the only play in the game he had any problems. Most of the rushes were from the outside and he handled that very well. I don't know if that was because of the competition or he just played that well. In any event he got the job done.

Free had a couple of decent run blocks at the 2nd level and wasn't the absolute passing liability that he had been in other games. But he certainly allowed the most pressure against Romo in the game, even with a lot of help (mostly in the 2nd half) and he killed a first half scoring drive with a 3rd down penalty (had to settle for 3). It was undeniably one of his better games though.

 

[TwentyOne]

Free had a very good game.

First of all i want to say that i appriciate the work you put in to evaluate a player.

But i have to admit i stopped reading after you gave Free (not only one) grading like the one above.

Free is a player that is simply overmatched in every aspect of a NFL game. The game is too fast for him and too powerful. And with too fast i mean physicly and mentally. He looks like a college freshman between men. Free never had a really good game the last season. If you think otherwise you should raise your bar of expectatation. Best thing is to pick up a RT that is top notch and give him an overall A. After that compare Free to that standard. Free will constantly rank between C and D occasionally E and thats simply put way too bad.