Fumble discussion

[MWH1967]

Not knowing when to quit is a big problem for Murray. Living for another play instead of risking a turnover is something he hasn't learned yet.

well, at this point i'm gonna mark it up as a effort. I totally get what you are saying and respect it. I still want the young man fighting for every inch. sorry, i still have memories of Emmitt pulling up short for the rushing record. he got there and i'm glad.

Full out is the only way to teach..or you are backing up.

 

[Beast_from_East]

I don't want to start a argument. Only want to ask a question.

Why do we see a fumble as a much more sinful turnover?

Murray has 3 on the year to go along with 1,233 rushing yards and 60 first downs. ( I'll take that and SMH)

Yet he is not to be trusted.

Just a side note. To go along with the conversation Tony has had 2 fumbles to go along with 6 ints, that's 8 total and it is discussed but in a different tone.

I think your numbers are off dude...............Murray has 5 fumbles on the season, not 3

And one of Romo's fumbles (the one in the Skins game in the last 2 min) was the result of Murray blowing his blitz pickup assignment...............so that's on Murray, not Romo.

And while we are talking about the Skins game, Murray fumbled the ball at the 5 yard line..............a game that was tied at the end of regulation..............that loss is on him as well.

Things like this is why I don't break the bank to sign Murray...............the max I offer is $5 million a season.

 

[Beast_from_East]

I disagree he took a lot of flack last year when he pulled up a yard early on long runs along the sideline and stepped out. He was getting lambasted here for making a "business" decision after 20 yard gains.

Its pretty much an unwritten rule in football that unless your momentum carries you out or you get pushed out, that running out of bounds on your own is being a coward.............a sign that you are scared to take a hit.

Now the opposite is also true, if 8 guys are trying to tackle you and you are still fighting for yardage................that is just being dumb...............as Emmitt Smith tweeted about Murray, "know when the journey is over".

 

[Tio]

Just addressing your point about the difference in perception, I think the main reason is you just compare your team's player at their respective position to other teams. That is how you get the standard to judge them by.

Just given the nature of football, quarterbacks typically will have a lot more turnovers than a RB. Interceptions are on the table whenever you pass the ball, but hopefully your QB is good enough that the risk/reward ratio is in your favor and you win much more than you lose on forward passes. I think we have that situation with Romo, especially with the understandable 1st game hiccup of 3 interceptions.

Halfbacks carry the ball for a living, they should be really good at it when they reach the NFL level. Most starting RBs might fumble once or twice in a season. Murray should fumble less, especially if he wants to get paid as an elite RB.

Turnovers are bad for your team no matter what, but given the standard of the league and just the nature of football, an interception by your QB is easier to swallow than a fumble by your RB.

 

[Yakuza Rich]

Fumbles should be more preventable. Roughly 75% of the league's turnovers come from the QB position (INT's and strip fumbles). That is more about the talent of the QB position. But with the fumble it is viewed as more of a preventable turnover because the discrepancy in talent, let's say at the RB position, isn't going to be the difference between somebody that fumbles a lot and somebody that doesn't.




YR

 

[jazzcat22]

i just looked a rushing fumbles..forgive me. However, your statement is not totally true. Are you going to put the fault on the running back if he is ingauged with a defensive player and the second tackler puts his helmet on the ball to knock it out on purpose? Not many folks could hold that one. also, punching the ball out is dirty in my book, but part of the game. If the defender misses it should be a personal foul.

changes games...take a shot and if you miss you pay. 15 yards.

If you include Romo's "fumbles and interceptions", then you need to include all of Murray's work too. Rushing and receiving, a fumble is a fumble. He caught the ball, then ran with it.

 

[EST_1986]

Its like counting airplane crashes to car crashes

 

[LittleBoyBlue]

Fumbles are always the fault of the ball carrier...there are dozens of factors that can contribute to interceptions.

Dozens ...plural.... Not singular? Lol

Most fumbles are within your control, its about knowing that you have accomplished all you can accomplish on that one play especially when you already have 1st down. Hey if he is fighting for the last inch on a 4th down play and has not got the 1st down and fumble oh well you win some you lose some. But if youhave picked up the 1st and really all you are doing is being "greedy" at that point and get stacked up and stripped that is on you.



Remember a few years ago when Romo was getting all those wierd INTs, you know the int off of the heel of witten's foot, or the numerous one's where his receiver let it bounce off their shoulder pads into the hands of a DB. I mean romo has thrown some dumb passes but the majority of his INTs were weird flukey ones as are most good QB ints.

I agree with the former.

The latter, not so much. The "majority"?? Come on, man!

 

[jrumann59]

Dozens ...plural.... Not singular? Lol






I agree with the former.

The latter, not so much. The "majority"?? Come on, man!

Come not all interceptions are mistakes by the QB it isn't like the defenders aren't supposed be there. Just like not all touchdown passes are due to bad defense. You can be on your guy, right there when the ball is thrown and the offensive player outjumps or outplays you for the ball.

 

[LittleBoyBlue]

Come not all interceptions are mistakes by the QB it isn't like the defenders aren't supposed be there. Just like not all touchdown passes are due to bad defense. You can be on your guy, right there when the ball is thrown and the offensive player outjumps or outplays you for the ball.

I hear what you are saying but Romo has at least three int categories

1. Int was an int
2. Receiver didn't run right route
3. DB made a good play on throw
4. Tipped passes int
5. Throw into double and triple coverage

I can give you 2 and 4 and part of 3... Really only part of 4 also.

So at best you got under 50% and that's not majority.

 

[Idgit]

For one thing, I think Murray's/Randle's fumbling issue as been widely under discussed by us here on CZ. It's a big deal, but is pretty much treated as a by-product of our fantastic season rushing so far.

And for my part, fumbles by a running back are typically worse than picks because 1. they are generally preventable--and this has been the case with every fumble I can remember this year. 2. they happen behind the line of scrimmage and not down field like many interceptions do. 3. they happen behind the line of scrimmage, so if they get returned, they can often get returned for big yardage.

I hate 'em. I'm almost always in favor of sitting a back who fumbles for a series or two to make the point that taking care of the ball won't be taken lightly. Swinging it around in traffic without three-pointing it, or not changing hands when you're going into contact and getting a hat on the ball is just not forgivable. It's the number one responsibility of a back to hold onto the football, especially on what are supposed to be safe plays.

Fumbles from a QB who's in the act of passing I find more forgivable. They're still back breaking plays, though. Maybe worse because they can also get your QB hurt.

 

[morasp]

If you lose the turnover battle in the postseason you most likely lose the game.

 

[Fredd]

The QB throws the ball more per game than a RB runs (or catches)

Passes>>RB Touches

but, as others have said, there is a higher risk reward on a pass than a run....a little piece of this is also when a runner fumbles, it is at that spot, when a QB throws and INT, it is usually 15 yards down the field (that risk-reward thing again)...

 

[jrumann59]

I hear what you are saying but Romo has at least three int categories

1. Int was an int
2. Receiver didn't run right route
3. DB made a good play on throw
4. Tipped passes int
5. Throw into double and triple coverage

I can give you 2 and 4 and part of 3... Really only part of 4 also.

So at best you got under 50% and that's not majority.

Ok how many of each type does he have.

 

[DallasEast]

Not knowing when to quit is a big problem for Murray. Living for another play instead of risking a turnover is something he hasn't learned yet.

This.

Murray is putting in the effort. He should not be questioned for it. While he has another gear to gash running lanes, Murray does not have breakaway speed. History shows it is likely that he will be caught by defenders on any given play if his speed cannot carry him into the endzone. This is the critical point for Murray. He must determine what to do after the initial tackler reaches him. Sometimes he is allowing the first would be tackler to hold him up while fighting for extra yards. The next guy will go for the strip. It's football. It happens in every game played everywhere. But Murray must decide the play is over because the refs are not always there to save his butt by saying his forward momentum has been stopped and whistling the play dead.

Sometimes the best rushing play is allowing the tackle to happen. There is no shame in it. It's good sound football. Doing so keeps drives alive. Lost fumbles kill drives. Know when to hold them. Know when to fold them...