Fuzzy Thoughts on McFadden

FuzzyLumpkins

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Gee whiz this a public forum.

Are people not allowed to have an opinion?? I understand a bit where you are coming from but your delivery of the point you are trying to make is terrible and harsh.

That isn't an opinion. 31 other teams not doing something is either factual or not. And when it comes to discerning truth from fiction regarding facts I set a high standard. If that is harsh to you then so be it.
 

Chappy

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That isn't an opinion. 31 other teams not doing something is either factual or not. And when it comes to discerning truth from fiction regarding facts I set a high standard. If that is harsh to you then so be it.

What makes what you say any more factual than the next bloke?? It is just what you believe.
 

CyberB0b

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I only looked at the games that he had 10+ carries. I listed the games that I watched. It seems to me like you might want to read it again.

you are trying to back door reality by biasing certain stats. his offensive line was god awful. never mind that.

You are the one who made this assertion:
When Murray started playing well down the stretch DMC was playing better too. The oline played a heck of a lot better in the second half of the season.

The guy had 534 yards in 16 games. Obviously, something was wrong in his game. I am not biasing anything. You said he played well down the stretch. My out of shape *** could have "played well down the stretch" if I got 19 carries in the last 4 games of the season. That's less than 5 carries a game.
 

FuzzyLumpkins

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What makes what you say any more factual than the next bloke?? It is just what you believe.

To that particular thing I would say its unknown. The vast majority of things are unknown frankly.

I think you are confusing fact and opinion for being the same thing having the same standards. I don't want to derail this into epistemology. I will say that the vast majority of what I wrote is descriptions of actual events and traits and I try very hard to stay away from emotional generalizations.

I don't believe facts. I know them.
 

FuzzyLumpkins

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You are the one who made this assertion:


The guy had 534 yards in 16 games. Obviously, something was wrong in his game. I am not biasing anything. You said he played well down the stretch. My out of shape *** could have "played well down the stretch" if I got 19 carries in the last 4 games of the season. That's less than 5 carries a game.

When you selective choose stats for your presentation that is by definition biasing.

As for that generalization that was not all i said on it and you know it. I also said that Menalik Watson had issues playing with his hands and missed a lot of blocks because of it whereas Barnes was hurt and started to move better as he healed towards the end of the season. Further, Howard replaced Bergstrom who had to transition from tackle he took time to get the techniques down with the musical chair at tackle next to him. I also said that Sparano used Reese differently as a moving h-back as opposed to the f-back he had been at before and he improved as the year continued.

I did not just say "their oline payed better" and trying to characterize my take as such is baseless.

As for McFadden rotating with Murray, he was finding the same lanes and getting positive yardage against Buffalo. The offensive line was doing a better job containing penetration particularly off the backside where they struggled mightily most of the year.
 

PoundTheRock

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I can't temper my excitement with this player.

I'm expecting to hear the praise of this signing throughout next season and what a steal we got.

Feel this way too. This team's pro scouting has been on fire and so many people are leaving him for dead. This dude grew up in Arkansas, no question he's followed this team his entire life. Now he gets a chance to revive his career in front of the world, he's gonna have a chip the size of Texas on his shoulder. Whatever he's got the Cowboys are gonna get it. You would think the Cowboys dug up Troy Hambrick by how maligned this signing has been and if there's one thing football is not it's predictable. Worse comes to worst, they paid the guy 200k for an extended look, but this has huge upside. This is the kind of risk you take. If had to peg where he falls, I think he will end up the 3rd down back and a bridge to the back they draft taking over as lead dog. I don't doubt that he can be more though.
 

DFWJC

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I liked the most for it's risk/reward setup the day we made it and Fuzzy sure didn't hurt that assessment.
I just don't see the downside with this move.

He's not supposed to be Murray's replacement. I think we'll draft a back. If DMC lights up, more power to him and the Cowboys.
We are trying to add roster depth from bottom to top, and had legit completion within.
 

xwalker

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I haven't watch the film, but I will on Wednesday. I am just wondering how accurate your assessment can be on a player when he gets less than 5 attempts in a game, in multiple games.

He is giving his opinion and he obviously studied the situation including all of the surrounding players.

I don't think he is trying to guarantee that McFadden will be great for the Cowboys, but he is giving some insight to what was going on with the Raiders.

Fuzzy put in the time to do the analysis, I'm not sure why you feel the need to rip him. If you watch the game footage and have a different opinion, then post a review.

I will say that based the past, the Fuzzy does not seem like someone that would hype a player just because the Cowboys signed him. I don't always agree with his assessments, but I do think he is giving his honest opinion of what he saw with no hype.
 

CCBoy

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The hit of McFadden, even if cut out of camp...well, would be very minor a hit on this year's cap.


http://cowboysblog.***BANNED-URL***...ing-backs-expected-to-meet-with-cowboys.html/


Wisconsin’s Melvin Gordon will be making a pre-draft visit to Valley Ranch to visit with Cowboys’ coaches and scouts, a source said.

This is the stronger point, possibly:

That should come as no surprise. Every quality running back with a pulse is expected to visit the club before next month’s draft.

Exaggeration? Sure. But it’s no secret that the Cowboys are looking to the draft to fill the void left by DeMarco Murray’s departure.

Gordon and Georgia’s Todd Gurley are regarded as the top two backs available. Gordon rushed for 4,915 yards and averaged 7.8 yards a carry for his college career. He had 2,587 yards on the ground with 29 touchdowns his junior year with the Badgers.

The Cowboys want to meet with him for an extensive interview.

He won’t be the only running back to take part in this process.
 

CyberB0b

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He is giving his opinion and he obviously studied the situation including all of the surrounding players.

I don't think he is trying to guarantee that McFadden will be great for the Cowboys, but he is giving some insight to what was going on with the Raiders.

Fuzzy put in the time to do the analysis, I'm not sure why you feel the need to rip him. If you watch the game footage and have a different opinion, then post a review.

I will say that based the past, the Fuzzy does not seem like someone that would hype a player just because the Cowboys signed him. I don't always agree with his assessments, but I do think he is giving his honest opinion of what he saw with no hype.

Not ripping, just asking questions.
 

ShiningStar

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I came into this thinking that McFadden has had injury problems since coming into the league and that robbed him of his athleticism and thus his poor performances. I watched the Texans, Pats, 1st Chargers, Cleveland, 1st KC Chiefs, and Buffalo.

Rookie QB who struggled on third down and had a penchant for bad interceptions early in the year. Struggled with ball security under pressure trying to make throws downfield with guys draped over him. When given time could make reads and throws with accuracy but made quite a few quetionable throws across the middle. Inconsistent as you expect with a rookie but godawful under pressure. Early in the year he would absolutely kill them with bad picks which would put them behind and snowball as he pressed.

the OL was bad. Penn the LT was a steady in pass protection but couldn't generate push or seal the edge on an island with any consistency.

The best was a good player in rookie LG Gabe Jackson. He was the sole power player and could get push at the poa. Asking him to move farther than a wham pull to the opposite B gap is an adventure though.

Wisniewski was the center and he was pretty decent space by contrast but absolutely needs to get stronger. Watt, Hughes, Wilfork, Luiget and Poe all had their way with him. He can pick up LB but could not handle DT well.

RG was problematic. At first it was manned by 3rd round pick Bergstrom but he was weak and ineffective much like our David Arkin and was replaced by Howard. Howard had poor hands and poor power but was better telling the state of the position. When they ran right inside 90% of the time it was a wham play because they could not generate power . Jackson would have to make a moving block and they would have to cutoff the gaping backside hole. That didn't succeed too often.

RT was a nightmare. Barnes was the starter beating out second year player Menalik Watson. Barnes had marginal feet but was steady. Watson had good feet but looked very poor with his hands and had trouble setting down in his stance. He got a lot of playing time because Barnes was hurt a lot though. He constantly let guys get inside his hands, couldn't hold onto blocks and would hold, and just plain whiff constantly. It was a parade of missed cut off blocks. With poor playside action runners were constatntly caught from behind.

Wilson was the only TE that played. He made plays in the passing game but had suspect hands dropping several passes over a couple of games. He could get open deep on the seam and post and even with Al gone that is a premium in Oaktown. Sealing the edge he was awful. He and Reese the FB had issues reaching blocks on the perimeter and could not hold them particularly early in the year. More on that later.

Jones and Holmes the starting wideouts are good downfield threats. Holmes likes to have rashes of dropped passes though. Vincent Jackson was hurt and came in late in the year to contribute but seemed to be more about making a paycheck than winning football games.

The other RB were MJD who was signed to start in the offseason. He continued to get hurt and so DMC started with Murray behind. He got healthy and they rotated DMC and him for the meat of the season until the end of the year and the focus became next season and player development when Murray got the start and DMC rotated down the stretch. MJD wore down REAL quick and seems just about done for the NFL.

Coach started off as Dennis Allen. He liked to use a lot of 31, wildcat, and tackle eligible on 1st down and running plays. They never trusted their 2nd TE all year long. Outside of that they ran a whole gamut of formations but primarily 11 and empty personnel. Lots and lots of shotgun that went nowhere. The team was very poorly coached as evidenced by illegal formations, false starts, delay of games, blown assignments, and the like. Allen was yanked and replaced by the second game I watched by Sparano.

Sparano simplified the offense. The empty set and 31 went away for the most part. Reese was used as a moving h-back and improved steadily over the season. Edge runs started to spring occasionally. the passing game and evolution of Carr was prioritized for obvious reasons. The team did get better.

the running game itself featured the same plays we are used to here. Inside zones and counters, zone stretches, offtackle, sweep/pitches. They did not pull there guards outside like we like to do though. Under Allen they called the draw but Sparano moved away from that. Seems to be a league trend. They weren't good at it. The backside blocking was bad all year killing the stretches, offtackles and sweeps. The tackles/TE could not seal the edges either. Jackson and to a lesser extent Wisniewski could get some movement inside so they ran between the tackles a lot. Second level blocking was spotty so guys like Cushing had a field day. They also did a poor job on the nose so the zone cut backs were seldom there with the likes of Poe Wilfork and Lissemore lying in wait.

Compounding all this was heavy boxes. Weddle, Whitner, and Swearingen lived on the los and the Raiders couldn't make them pay either due to poor pass pro or a bevy of drops by receivers. Between this and poor perimeter blocking outside runs were often received by a S and OLB on the edge.

For McFadden is was tough sledding early. The Penn Jackson Wisniewsi Bergstron Watson line was clown car bad with missed blocks and guys going backwards of skates. Think bad Costa. Jackson was good for springing an inside run or two but that was about it. DMC and MJD both were hit early and often in the backfield. Outside runs were stacked at the line and pursuit caught up. when the play would seem to work for a big gain the yellow laundry came. By the middle of the season they had all but abandoned the outside attempts.

DMC is a willing runner between the tackles. His issue is that he tries to compensate for his upright running style by crouching and leaning to get low. This effects his stride and balance. He is not as steady on his feet even if he doesn't match the hyperbole of falling down at first contact. Once he is out of the hole he returns to his stride.

He does not try to fight through 2 or more tackles and will get down. He does not get stood up and pummeled ever. in the games I watched the ball came out twice. first was the ground causing a fumble thus no fumble the other saw him pop past the second level against the Browns and the FS got a helmet right on the ball. It was a good hit and the ball came loose. while that is not good. It was his only fumble all year long in 155 carries.

As the season progressed, Reese got better and Barnes got healthy taking Watson off the field. Howard also settled in and was a bit more consistent if not overpowering. This is when MJD was put out to pasture and Murray started to be featured. DMC was not benched but continued to get carries and passing snaps. In particular runs off left end started getting sealed and both Murray and McFadden took advantage.

Physically McFadden does not look cooked. I studied him back in the draft and he doesn't appear to have lost a step. He still has speed to beat pursuit to the edge when the poa is blocked up and he still has burst getting to the hole. He also does a good job planting his foot and cutting backside without losing speed even if there were people there too more often than not.

He is also a physical runner. While he won't try to fight through two defenders often, he seeks to lay a lick on individual defenders trying to fill the hole. He ran over a couple of guys and does not shy from contact. He either gets down or pounds downhill. He doesn't *****foot it as they say. Some of our ball carriers would try to dance and get stood up leading to fumbles. it will be interesting to see what the coaches here have him doing.

He is a complete back. He did give up on sack on pass protection that I saw though. He made the right read to slide over to stop a weakside blitz but didn't get square for the hit. The defender was able to maintain his rush which forced Carr to step up. That would have been that but Watson failed to block Kruger at all so Carr stepped up into his arms. For the most part though he was square and when he hits, he hits hard. Very physical player that stones DB and LB consistently and has a chance against DE. He is also very attentive to help in pass protection and is aware of who needs help. Some of the pass protection would look like a sieve but DMC would step up to the middle rush and Carr would be able to get the ball out. this happened time and again on their 6 man protections.

He was somewhat featured in the passing game early in the year under Allen. The 5 man protections that empty sets demand were a bad idea with a rookie QB but when they would trot them out they split DMC out wide and had him run routes. It was mostly hitches slants and fades. He gets separation fairly easily but Carr only threw him the ball once. It was a well placed ball over the shoulder on a fade that he clanged off his hands. that was disappointing but I would like to see more with better oline play not leaving the QB out to dry.

Sparano phased that out quickly and for the most part DMC played the conventional checkdown role. He has excellent hands on those passes even when throws are slightly behind. Sparano would also motion him out wide much like Payton and Reid like to do and that did have success either on bubble screens or quick slants which he executed well.

After watching the tape the guy that needs to worry about his role is Dunbar. DMC can do all the things that he could in the passing and outside game, is bigger, stronger and just a fast. He is a much superior blocker.

I am interested to see what he can do behind a competent Oline running the ball though. Leary is comparable to Jackson in skillset but while Jackson is their best Leary is #4. Hanna, Witten, Free and of course Smith are all significantly better blockers that can seal the edges consistently. Fred is one of the most powerful blockers on the nose in the NFL and DMC will see more cutback lanes. In general our guys get push while Oakland does not.

As it stands now, I am very comfortable with McFadden coming in on the third down role. i imagine he will have that locked down as Randle and co are either unreliable or green in pass protection while DMC is ready willing and capable.

As a runner I have significant hopes for him with better blocking but I cannot be sure until it is actually seen. Projections are what they are but I saw his poor running had more to do with poor blocking up front than anything DMC did or did not do.



great breakdown and really takes the issue to science as you break it down and explain what we are seing vs what we think we want to see in our mind. Thank you for that.
 

CCBoy

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The thing about taking a running back in the first, is that he is wrapped up in his rookie contract for a five year period. Right now, that speaks very loudly to this fan...and Romo's longevity issue.
 

Iron_Man

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I feel like of all the backs not named AP, he is the one who is closest to Murray in terms of running style.

Good vision, can cutback, and like you said, will initiate contact. On a winning team, who knows, he might have the will to go at 2 or 3 defenders to pick up the extra yards. I think he is a very good fit for our scheme. Has the speed to take it to the house.

Only bad thing is I think we draft a RB in the first round, which almost negates us signing him.

I dont see the boys drafting RB in the first, 2nd - 4th rounds have the best value. I do not see much drop off from the 1st round RBs to the other rounds RBs.
 

burmafrd

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I never wanted McFadden because I always believed he was over hyped. But that was as a first round draft choice. Now as a cheap FA I am quite happy to give the guy a shot. He does have talent.
 

LittleBoyBlue

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I came into this thinking that McFadden has had injury problems since coming into the league and that robbed him of his athleticism and thus his poor performances. I watched the Texans, Pats, 1st Chargers, Cleveland, 1st KC Chiefs, and Buffalo.

Rookie QB who struggled on third down and had a penchant for bad interceptions early in the year. Struggled with ball security under pressure trying to make throws downfield with guys draped over him. When given time could make reads and throws with accuracy but made quite a few quetionable throws across the middle. Inconsistent as you expect with a rookie but godawful under pressure. Early in the year he would absolutely kill them with bad picks which would put them behind and snowball as he pressed.

the OL was bad. Penn the LT was a steady in pass protection but couldn't generate push or seal the edge on an island with any consistency.

The best was a good player in rookie LG Gabe Jackson. He was the sole power player and could get push at the poa. Asking him to move farther than a wham pull to the opposite B gap is an adventure though.

Wisniewski was the center and he was pretty decent space by contrast but absolutely needs to get stronger. Watt, Hughes, Wilfork, Luiget and Poe all had their way with him. He can pick up LB but could not handle DT well.

RG was problematic. At first it was manned by 3rd round pick Bergstrom but he was weak and ineffective much like our David Arkin and was replaced by Howard. Howard had poor hands and poor power but was better telling the state of the position. When they ran right inside 90% of the time it was a wham play because they could not generate power . Jackson would have to make a moving block and they would have to cutoff the gaping backside hole. That didn't succeed too often.

RT was a nightmare. Barnes was the starter beating out second year player Menalik Watson. Barnes had marginal feet but was steady. Watson had good feet but looked very poor with his hands and had trouble setting down in his stance. He got a lot of playing time because Barnes was hurt a lot though. He constantly let guys get inside his hands, couldn't hold onto blocks and would hold, and just plain whiff constantly. It was a parade of missed cut off blocks. With poor playside action runners were constatntly caught from behind.

Wilson was the only TE that played. He made plays in the passing game but had suspect hands dropping several passes over a couple of games. He could get open deep on the seam and post and even with Al gone that is a premium in Oaktown. Sealing the edge he was awful. He and Reese the FB had issues reaching blocks on the perimeter and could not hold them particularly early in the year. More on that later.

Jones and Holmes the starting wideouts are good downfield threats. Holmes likes to have rashes of dropped passes though. Vincent Jackson was hurt and came in late in the year to contribute but seemed to be more about making a paycheck than winning football games.

The other RB were MJD who was signed to start in the offseason. He continued to get hurt and so DMC started with Murray behind. He got healthy and they rotated DMC and him for the meat of the season until the end of the year and the focus became next season and player development when Murray got the start and DMC rotated down the stretch. MJD wore down REAL quick and seems just about done for the NFL.

Coach started off as Dennis Allen. He liked to use a lot of 31, wildcat, and tackle eligible on 1st down and running plays. They never trusted their 2nd TE all year long. Outside of that they ran a whole gamut of formations but primarily 11 and empty personnel. Lots and lots of shotgun that went nowhere. The team was very poorly coached as evidenced by illegal formations, false starts, delay of games, blown assignments, and the like. Allen was yanked and replaced by the second game I watched by Sparano.

Sparano simplified the offense. The empty set and 31 went away for the most part. Reese was used as a moving h-back and improved steadily over the season. Edge runs started to spring occasionally. the passing game and evolution of Carr was prioritized for obvious reasons. The team did get better.

the running game itself featured the same plays we are used to here. Inside zones and counters, zone stretches, offtackle, sweep/pitches. They did not pull there guards outside like we like to do though. Under Allen they called the draw but Sparano moved away from that. Seems to be a league trend. They weren't good at it. The backside blocking was bad all year killing the stretches, offtackles and sweeps. The tackles/TE could not seal the edges either. Jackson and to a lesser extent Wisniewski could get some movement inside so they ran between the tackles a lot. Second level blocking was spotty so guys like Cushing had a field day. They also did a poor job on the nose so the zone cut backs were seldom there with the likes of Poe Wilfork and Lissemore lying in wait.

Compounding all this was heavy boxes. Weddle, Whitner, and Swearingen lived on the los and the Raiders couldn't make them pay either due to poor pass pro or a bevy of drops by receivers. Between this and poor perimeter blocking outside runs were often received by a S and OLB on the edge.

For McFadden is was tough sledding early. The Penn Jackson Wisniewsi Bergstron Watson line was clown car bad with missed blocks and guys going backwards of skates. Think bad Costa. Jackson was good for springing an inside run or two but that was about it. DMC and MJD both were hit early and often in the backfield. Outside runs were stacked at the line and pursuit caught up. when the play would seem to work for a big gain the yellow laundry came. By the middle of the season they had all but abandoned the outside attempts.

DMC is a willing runner between the tackles. His issue is that he tries to compensate for his upright running style by crouching and leaning to get low. This effects his stride and balance. He is not as steady on his feet even if he doesn't match the hyperbole of falling down at first contact. Once he is out of the hole he returns to his stride.

He does not try to fight through 2 or more tackles and will get down. He does not get stood up and pummeled ever. in the games I watched the ball came out twice. first was the ground causing a fumble thus no fumble the other saw him pop past the second level against the Browns and the FS got a helmet right on the ball. It was a good hit and the ball came loose. while that is not good. It was his only fumble all year long in 155 carries.

As the season progressed, Reese got better and Barnes got healthy taking Watson off the field. Howard also settled in and was a bit more consistent if not overpowering. This is when MJD was put out to pasture and Murray started to be featured. DMC was not benched but continued to get carries and passing snaps. In particular runs off left end started getting sealed and both Murray and McFadden took advantage.

Physically McFadden does not look cooked. I studied him back in the draft and he doesn't appear to have lost a step. He still has speed to beat pursuit to the edge when the poa is blocked up and he still has burst getting to the hole. He also does a good job planting his foot and cutting backside without losing speed even if there were people there too more often than not.

He is also a physical runner. While he won't try to fight through two defenders often, he seeks to lay a lick on individual defenders trying to fill the hole. He ran over a couple of guys and does not shy from contact. He either gets down or pounds downhill. He doesn't *****foot it as they say. Some of our ball carriers would try to dance and get stood up leading to fumbles. it will be interesting to see what the coaches here have him doing.

He is a complete back. He did give up on sack on pass protection that I saw though. He made the right read to slide over to stop a weakside blitz but didn't get square for the hit. The defender was able to maintain his rush which forced Carr to step up. That would have been that but Watson failed to block Kruger at all so Carr stepped up into his arms. For the most part though he was square and when he hits, he hits hard. Very physical player that stones DB and LB consistently and has a chance against DE. He is also very attentive to help in pass protection and is aware of who needs help. Some of the pass protection would look like a sieve but DMC would step up to the middle rush and Carr would be able to get the ball out. this happened time and again on their 6 man protections.

He was somewhat featured in the passing game early in the year under Allen. The 5 man protections that empty sets demand were a bad idea with a rookie QB but when they would trot them out they split DMC out wide and had him run routes. It was mostly hitches slants and fades. He gets separation fairly easily but Carr only threw him the ball once. It was a well placed ball over the shoulder on a fade that he clanged off his hands. that was disappointing but I would like to see more with better oline play not leaving the QB out to dry.

Sparano phased that out quickly and for the most part DMC played the conventional checkdown role. He has excellent hands on those passes even when throws are slightly behind. Sparano would also motion him out wide much like Payton and Reid like to do and that did have success either on bubble screens or quick slants which he executed well.

After watching the tape the guy that needs to worry about his role is Dunbar. DMC can do all the things that he could in the passing and outside game, is bigger, stronger and just a fast. He is a much superior blocker.

I am interested to see what he can do behind a competent Oline running the ball though. Leary is comparable to Jackson in skillset but while Jackson is their best Leary is #4. Hanna, Witten, Free and of course Smith are all significantly better blockers that can seal the edges consistently. Fred is one of the most powerful blockers on the nose in the NFL and DMC will see more cutback lanes. In general our guys get push while Oakland does not.

As it stands now, I am very comfortable with McFadden coming in on the third down role. i imagine he will have that locked down as Randle and co are either unreliable or green in pass protection while DMC is ready willing and capable.

As a runner I have significant hopes for him with better blocking but I cannot be sure until it is actually seen. Projections are what they are but I saw his poor running had more to do with poor blocking up front than anything DMC did or did not do.

Just wow!!

Thanks. Chock full of info.


But what about all the other running backs that outplayed him? I know it's stats but anything to it?
 

FuzzyLumpkins

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Just wow!!

Thanks. Chock full of info.


But what about all the other running backs that outplayed him? I know it's stats but anything to it?

MJD was less productive running behind the same line in the middle of the season. He had 2.2 ypc. He was getting hit behind the line early and often too.

Murray's was the backup and came in on the third series when MJD was injured until the last 4 games of the season. As the bell cow the last 4 games, he went for 3.8 ypc.

Outplayed?
 
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